ACRB for beginners - Thicklight or Cyb or what?

[aegishjalmir]

Let's imagine that a new member of this forum, with no background in chemistry, has managed to put her hands on 500 grams of ACRB, and wants to do an extraction. Is there any reason that she shouldn't simply follow Thick-Light's instructions in the first post in this thread here?

If you're having trouble getting crystals from acrb, use this tek (thick-light) - A/B - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Put another way: what is the worst thing that can happen to her if she follows this tek to the letter? Is it complete and total disaster and a waste of the $80 she spent on the ACRB? Is it a really bad yield? Is it simply ending up with a lot of changa or some other impure form, which she could then consume as is or recrystalize at her leisure?

I ask this question in this form because the original Thick-Light thread now runs to 14 pages and has gotten highly confusing for those of us with zero extraction experience, and we need to start somewhere. If there is a compelling reason to start with Cyb's tek or some other tek we should know what that is, but it's a risky proposition for a complete beginner, because TL's tek is absolutely clear as to quantities and materials and Cyb's, being based on principles, is not. For instance it seems to me that I could really mess things up by adding too much salt or not enough. So - experienced members - this is a plea for really clear guidance for the inexperienced members here.

AH

<MODERATOR: REMOVED BAD WORDS, IT IS NOT NEEDED ON THE DMT-NEXUS>
Respectful communication

 

[Vodsel]

Oh man, I also just realized the water I've been using is "vapor distilled water and electrolytes for taste" (Smart water). Could these added electrolytes affect my extraction because de-ionized water is supposed to be used, and water with electrolytes is essentially the complete opposite?

If it's drinkable water, if those electrolytes are minerals good for consumption, there should be no difference. There's a lot of minerals in the plant material that will migrate to the water anyways... not to mention if you want to add salt eventually.

The only problem is water with unknown pollutants... good tap water should be safe.

 

[Psilosomniac]

Oh man, I also just realized the water I've been using is "vapor distilled water and electrolytes for taste" (Smart water). Could these added electrolytes affect my extraction because de-ionized water is supposed to be used, and water with electrolytes is essentially the complete opposite?

If it's drinkable water, if those electrolytes are minerals good for consumption, there should be no difference. There's a lot of minerals in the plant material that will migrate to the water anyways... not to mention if you want to add salt eventually.

The only problem is water with unknown pollutants... good tap water should be safe.

Okay, that's good to hear. You don't think it should be of any concern? Should I switch to tap water just to be safe?

Thanks!

 

[aegishjalmir]

hey! I did my first time wit Cyb 2 days ago and I had full support from him. By the way I had no scales and no right salt but it came out quite good
here take a look Extracting right now need help (Cybs' ATB) - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I have been following your thread and I have to say I am f*ckin' impressed - impressed with you for going for it and impressed with Cyb for responding personally to all of your questions. The spice comes to Georgia - that is just amazing. Very, very impressive.

The appeal to me of the Thick-Light tek remains that it's a recipe with the quantities all figured out from the beginning. That appeal is kind of eroding though as I read about other first extractions that went wrong. I would hate to waste 500 gm of ACRB in one go. Thank you very much for posting the link to the 50 gm recipe - that really looks like the way to do it.

Again thanks everyone for all the responses to this thread

AH

 

[Vodsel]

Should I switch to tap water just to be safe?

You described "smart" water, which should contain safe minerals (sodium, calcium, potassium, etc.) and no metal pollutants or any nasty unfiltered stuff. That should be fine.

 

[Psilosomniac]

Should I switch to tap water just to be safe?

You described "smart" water, which should contain safe minerals (sodium, calcium, potassium, etc.) and no metal pollutants or any nasty unfiltered stuff. That should be fine.

Wonderful, thanks!

 

[aegishjalmir]

Here's another basic question. The version of Cyb's tek that Wall-Iko posted contemplates one long, hot soak in the water / vinegar solution, and then a number of naptha pulls from the strained liquid. The TL tek contemplates multiple boils, a reduction, and then multiple pulls. The two teks are actually more different than I had previously thought. So here are my questions:

Why don't we do multiple boils with the Cyb tek?

Five pulls sounds like a shitload of naptha. Can any of it be recovered?

 

[Psilosomniac]

Here's another basic question. The version of Cyb's tek that Wall-Iko posted contemplates one long, hot soak in the water / vinegar solution, and then a number of naptha pulls from the strained liquid. The TL tek contemplates multiple boils, a reduction, and then multiple pulls. The two teks are actually more different than I had previously thought. So here are my questions:

Why don't we do multiple boils with the Cyb tek?

Five pulls sounds like a shitload of naptha. Can any of it be recovered?

Cyb's tek doesn't call for evaporating all the naphtha. It says to put it straight into the freezer for freeze precipitation, then pour it off once the pans are removed. Once it's poured off, you can reuse it.

I'd also like a little insight into the acid extraction stage. My first attempt, I only heated and shook the solution for about an hour and a half. I think that might explain my low yield. I don't have access to a stove, so I've been heating water in the microwave, placing the jar in the heat bath, and reheating the water as necessary. I did this for about 7 hours yesterday and let it sit overnight in lukewarm water. I've been doing this for about an hour this morning. This should be sufficient, right? I figure the lesson to be learned here is in patience.

 

[aegishjalmir]

Cyb's tek doesn't call for evaporating all the naphtha. It says to put it straight into the freezer for freeze precipitation, then pour it off once the pans are removed. Once it's poured off, you can reuse it.

Thanks for that. I need to read up on Cyb's tek.

I don't have access to a stove

Obviously I don't have any extraction experience ... but have you thought about getting a crockpot? The little ones cost nothing, like $15 if you're in a country where they have dollars as the currency, and they are perfect for keeping something at a low simmer for a long time.

 

[cyb]

The longer you soak in acid the better...1 hr up to 24hrs.
Cells walls will lyse and release molecule into solution ready for salting and basing

Five pulls sounds like a shitload of naptha. Can any of it be recovered?

5- 6 pulls at 40-50ml per pull is a small amount.

All Naphtha (after the freeze) can be drained away from the xtlas and re-used...many times.
A wash with clean water will remove any yellow staining...

 

[Psilosomniac]

I don't have access to a stove

Obviously I don't have any extraction experience ... but have you thought about getting a crockpot? The little ones cost nothing, like $15 if you're in a country where they have dollars as the currency, and they are perfect for keeping something at a low simmer for a long time.

I suppose that wouldn't be a bad idea. If this extraction goes well, it might be worth the investment. Thanks for the tip!

The longer you soak in acid the better...1 hr up to 24hrs.
Cells walls will lyse and release molecule into solution ready for salting and basing

Ah, that's what I thought. At what point is it no longer worth soaking, though? I think I'll continue to soak it with warm water for the rest of the day before I salt and basify tonight. Patience...

I yielded a measly 5mg of crystals and some goo from my last attempt. I've narrowed the possible explanations down to bunk bark or insufficient time for the acid soak. I'm hoping it's the latter, and that a longer soak will yield higher. Any other possible explanations? I more or less followed your tek to the T, except that I used a heat bath as previously described instead of using a stove.

 

[cyb]

Ah, that's what I thought. At what point is it no longer worth soaking, though? I think I'll continue to soak it with warm water for the rest of the day before I salt and basify tonight. Patience...

I yielded a measly 5mg of crystals and some goo from my last attempt. I've narrowed the possible explanations down to bunk bark or insufficient time for the acid soak. I'm hoping it's the latter, and that a longer soak will yield higher. Any other possible explanations? I more or less followed your tek to the T, except that I used a heat bath as previously described instead of using a stove.

Psilo
The acid soak is a way of expediting the lyse...just basing will do the same thing but will take much longer...they both help.
Addition of Saline is what will make the difference in the first few pulls.

Also I have been reading a lot lately of bark that doesn't yield... I'm hoping the suppliers aren't cashing in by using Trunk bark or even other bunk Acacia...
It's a worry...

 

[Psilosomniac]

Ah, that's what I thought. At what point is it no longer worth soaking, though? I think I'll continue to soak it with warm water for the rest of the day before I salt and basify tonight. Patience...

I yielded a measly 5mg of crystals and some goo from my last attempt. I've narrowed the possible explanations down to bunk bark or insufficient time for the acid soak. I'm hoping it's the latter, and that a longer soak will yield higher. Any other possible explanations? I more or less followed your tek to the T, except that I used a heat bath as previously described instead of using a stove.

Psilo
The acid soak is a way of expediting the lyse...just basing will do the same thing but will take much longer...they both help.
Addition of Saline is what will make the difference in the first few pulls.

Also I have been reading a lot lately of bark that doesn't yield... I'm hoping the suppliers aren't cashing in by using Trunk bark or even other bunk Acacia...
It's a worry...

Ah, okay. So the last batch that I made is still sitting, basified and all. Is it worth doing another pull on it? I already did three, and yielded next to nothing.

I certainly hope this bark isn't bunk. It does say root bark on the site, but I suppose they could be lying. If this next batch doesn't yield much, I think that bunk bark is probably the culprit. That would be very discouraging indeed. Then I'd have to search for a better vendor.

EDIT: Just took a look at the vendor's site one more time and found this:

"This ethically-harvested, organic wild collected Acacia confusa (Rainbow Tree) root bark is one of our most prized specimens we offer.

The root bark is prepared as small “chips” easy to work with!

Acacia confusa is similar to Mimosa hostilis as a natural dye but carries a spirit that offers “rainbow light” while Mimosa hostilis only offers “white light”.
The percentage of dye that this root bark can produce is more than TWICE that of MHRB."

*shrug*

 

[*oneironaut*]

Also I have been reading a lot lately of bark that doesn't yield... I'm hoping the suppliers aren't cashing in by using Trunk bark or even other bunk Acacia...
It's a worry...

I wish there was some way for us nexians to compare notes to keep vendors honest... I miss the suppliers forum good ol days

Secret code ? Eagle Bird lays rotten egg on dark side of moon... something like that


*O*

 

[BobDobalina]

My first batch was mostly goo ranging from yellow to red, and low yield however I learned a lot from the experience. I've been consistently getting nice fluffy white crystals now so the best thing is practice. Also, I completely agree with the vendors. I think some of the issue can be attributed to bad bark the first time..I switched to a new vendor with a rather straightforward domain name and I've been yielding much better results.

Anyway, I've been using a combination of cyb's tek and thick-light's.
Basically I just follow TL's tek but add salt at the basification stage. I also filter the reduced acid cook liquid through some old t-shirts before doing that. One last thing I recently started doing is a soda wash (washing soda, not baking soda) after pulling the nap and it makes it cleaner but you can get to that later.

What made the biggest difference for me was letting the pulls sit covered overnight at room temp rather than freeze precipitating. The first and second pulls are usually saturated enough to do so, the remaining pulls can be evaporated first until the crystals start to crash out at room temp then proceed as usual.

Good luck!

 

[cyb]

^^^ This sounds like a good way to do things...nice Bob :thumb_up:

 

[Psilosomniac]

What made the biggest difference for me was letting the pulls sit covered overnight at room temp rather than freeze precipitating. The first and second pulls are usually saturated enough to do so, the remaining pulls can be evaporated first until the crystals start to crash out at room temp then proceed as usual.

Good luck!

So when you did a freeze precipitation, you got goo, but leaving the solvent at room temperature overnight resulted in crystals crashing out?

Yesterday I finished my second attempt with a much longer acid soak and when I pulled out the naphtha, it was completely clear and I was really bummed. I put it in the freezer, and after five minutes or so, took a look at it and it was really milky white, so my spirits lifted a little bit. Now there's a cloudy layer at the bottom of the jars, but very little crystal formation. I decanted one of the jars and replaced it upside down. I'm gonna pull that one out in a little bit and put it under a fan to see what happens, but I have a feeling I'm going to be stuck with goo. Maybe I'll pull out the second jar and let it warm to room temperature and sit overnight.

The naphtha I decanted from the first jar was put into another jar and placed in the freezer, and it's still very milky white. Maybe they just haven't been sitting in the freezer long enough? My freezer is very cold, and I let it sit for about 18 hours. I figured it would be done by now but like I said, very little crystal formation and the decanted naphtha is still very cloudy.

Any advice? Is the cloudy naphtha a sure sign that it's well saturated?

 

[Thewhitekingtut]

Have any of you tried q21q21's vinegar and lime a/b tek with acacia confusia , the advice I've seen is that any acid base extraction should work

 

[expanding2012]

I talked to someone who claimed they did q21q21 with a mix of roughly 50/50 limonene in the form of cold pressed sweet orange oil and soybean oil as a total green horn with acrb and got lots of "something" not inert but def not exclamation point (mostly NMT she thinks) maybe material is to blame. I have seen few posts where people get some kind of crystals but no bang. She said something about trying a different vendor.

She is excited to try it with some caapi

If any of the forum grey hairs care to chime in she would appreciate it (she is really hot)

 

[Galidor4]

Personally, I've had great success with Thick-light's tek and not so much with cyb's. Think-lights it super straight forward, no pre-knowledge necessary, where as I felt with cybs that there was some pre-knowledge required and it almost seems unfinished or maybe it's not good for acacia.