Advice concerning Aya retreat please

[blig-blug]

I feel there were a lot of weird elements that led to this stance and understanding by people

Yes, I think the exaggerated fears about the MAOI effects of harmalas (assuming that they were as dangerous as irreversible inhibitors) may have contributed as well. Not to say that harmalas can't be dangerous, we know they can interact dangerously with SSRIs etc. But if you ate cheese the day before you'll be fine.

 

[Here&Now]

Yes, I think the exaggerated fears about the MAOI effects of harmalas (assuming that they were as dangerous as irreversible inhibitors) may have contributed as well. Not to say that harmalas can't be dangerous, we know they can interact dangerously with SSRIs etc. But if you ate cheese the day before you'll be fine.

Right, I've eaten cheese-heavy meals immediately following pharmahuasca trips. When it comes to interactions with common foods, harmalas seem to be far more reversible than people think. At least when the harmala dosing is in moderate amounts (100-200mg harmine).

 

[Voidmatrix]

Right, I've eaten cheese-heavy meals immediately following pharmahuasca trips. When it comes to interactions with common foods, harmalas seem to be far more reversible than people think. At least when the harmala dosing is in moderate amounts (100-200mg harmine).

One of the intents behind me regularly drinking rue for a few years was to challenge this dogma. Everything was fine.

One love

 

[doubledog]

There is one thing that should be taken into consideration: lot of cults use the very same method how to manipulate its members, best terms for it would be "requirement of radical openness" (especially about sexuality).
It's so common that it should be in top 3 rules to use for anybody who wants to start a cult.

On the other hand, during aya session lot of various personal content emerges and guide should be informed about the client. Still, I would avoid any sharing of sensitive information outside serious terapeutic setting.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

Not sure why people feel that masturbation, in terms of an aya retreat and experience, is being classified as an unimportant 'religious belief'.
Just to clarify, I am in no way religious (actually extremely anti), but do we actually think that masturbation can have no effect on our energy and being in general? If you are wanking twice a day, where is your psyche? What effect is this focus on self-gratification, almost definitely watching porn, not being in a mutual sexual relationship, but simply stimulating the brain and nervous system into sexual release, having on our being? To say it is an absolute irrelevance seems as ridiculous as believing that DMT made in a lab is the same as that which has been made by plants/nature, even if, on a molecular level, we can see no difference.

 

[blig-blug]

Not sure why people feel that masturbation, in terms of an aya retreat and experience, is being classified as an unimportant 'religious belief'.

Before continuing the conversation, can you point out who has said that abstention from masturbation before drinking Ayahuasca having some benefits is "an unimportant religious belief"?

What I said was:

They are free to think that masturbation isn't advisable before Ayahuasca, but as @Varallo says, that's a religious belief

I didn't say anything about importance, and I specified that it was about saying "that it [masturbation] isn't advisable", not about saying that there may be some benefit in abstaining from it. There can be benefits in abstaining from all sorts of compulsive behaviors. That's not the same as saying something negative may happen to you if you don't abstain from them beforehand ("isn't advisable").

It's interesting how, instead of focusing on compulsive behaviors in general, they tend to have a specific focus on masturbation and types of food. "Oh yeah, I'll abstain from masturbation and dairy, not that my 12 hours a day of League of Legends leave me much time for it anyways".

Also, something being a religious belief doesn't mean it's false. It means it shouldn't be presented as fact, that's all.

To say it is an absolute irrelevance seems as ridiculous as believing that DMT made in a lab is the same as that which has been made by plants/nature, even if, on a molecular level, we can see no difference

No, actually the latter is much more ridiculous IMO, but that seems almost flaming, honestly. That horse has been beaten to the verge of death. Hopefully one day we'll see a double blind study testing if experienced participants can tell apart (analytically pure, no NMT and such) extracted DMT and synthetic DMT, and we will be able to bury the horse forever. Not much of a point of continuing the conversation on that direction, I think.

 

[Here&Now]

Not sure why people feel that masturbation, in terms of an aya retreat and experience, is being classified as an unimportant 'religious belief'.
Just to clarify, I am in no way religious (actually extremely anti), but do we actually think that masturbation can have no effect on our energy and being in general? If you are wanking twice a day, where is your psyche? What effect is this focus on self-gratification, almost definitely watching porn, not being in a mutual sexual relationship, but simply stimulating the brain and nervous system into sexual release, having on our being? To say it is an absolute irrelevance seems as ridiculous as believing that DMT made in a lab is the same as that which has been made by plants/nature, even if, on a molecular level, we can see no difference.

I'd have to agree with the notion of male masturbation feeling physically draining afterward. It's hard to imagine that's even in contention. At least for myself, I'd prefer to approach a powerful psychedelic experience with as much vigor as possible, and I think the after-ejaculation state is far from the ideal.

 

[png]

This is fun. Pretty sure this instance we are not dealing with a cult. But who has more elements that indicate Aya cult?

 

[Here&Now]

I just took a moment to read through the rest of the thread. I'm also in agreement that the intake questions for the retreat are beyond ridiculous lol. I still think someone would be wise to show some sexual restraint before imbibing, but that's not for the retreat to dictate.

 

[blig-blug]

This is fun. Pretty sure this instance we are not dealing with a cult. But who has more elements that indicate Aya cult?

I think that "radical openness" it's usually more about in-person interactions (when openness is demanded) than a form, although a form could hypothetically be a way to get a foot in, so to speak. But it's not that worrying compared to other more clear signs.

This is not specific to Aya cults but to cults in general. I'd be wary if:

• They claim you are special (in a good or bad sense)
• They claim there's some problem with you that only they can fix
• They claim they are special
• They demand (explicitly or implicitly) that you agree with any kind of metaphysical position as if it were an absolute truth
• They are welcoming to an extraordinary degree (look up "love bombing")
• They pressure you to speak about personal issues publicly or to them, not making clear that it's entirely optional
• If you have an underwhelming experience, they blame you for it (not that anyone would need to be blamed for it)
• They suggest some kind of commitment to them in the aftermath of the experience, before some time has passed
• In a public situation (with them), you find yourself agreeing to things that you usually wouldn't, saying things you usually wouldn't, or behaving in ways you usually wouldn't
• They interpret your experience for you
• In the aftermath of your experience, they claim or insinuate you have been initiated or somehow transformed

Those are a few that come to mind, most of them applicable to cults in general. There are more.

 

[Voidmatrix]

We assumed a whole lot without having the necessary information, such as actual format and intent of questions and the detail breadth of the questionnaire. Again, at my center we have journey's fill out a packet that's longer. Mind you we don't ask about masturbation habits and such. But it is a lot of necessary information to not only evaluate the individual and clear them for guidework, but to also know what we're getting ourselves into. Like I tell my journeyers, the more I know the better, and if you feel like you have to hide something from me, don't be surprised if that comes up in the session.

As for masturbation, we can't assume the mechanisms of effects are the same for everyone. We have varying levels of testosterone for example, and varying sensitivity of androgen receptors, so some have a higher libido and it can simply be a way of managing urges. Once the urge is managed they likely move on. Same for people with serious trauma (and I am not talking about people who do so compulsively). Point being, some people may feel drained or depleted, others may feel more balanced and regulated.

One love

 

[Here&Now]

Point being, some people may feel drained or depleted, others may feel more balanced and regulated.

I find this fascinating if true. I guess I assumed it was universally tiring among men as a physiological reality, similar to the comical idea of the man always falling asleep right after sex.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I find this fascinating if true. I guess I assumed it was universally tiring among men as a physiological reality, similar to the comical idea of the man always falling asleep right after sex.

From my understanding it's a really complex set of reactions involving ones genetics, hormone balance, brain chemistry, and other health measures. I've even read that for some people it depends. Sometimes they climax and want to go to sleep, other times they climax and want to build a car.

One love

 

[Here&Now]

From my understanding it's a really complex set of reactions involving ones genetics, hormone balance, brain chemistry, and other health measures. I've even read that for some people it depends. Sometimes they climax and want to go to sleep, other times they climax and want to build a car.

One love

Considering the variations in human biology, I guess I could believe there's some wiggle room for differing effects. I think age is a big factor as well. I remember being more resilient in that way when I was younger.

 

[Jamie01]

It’s excessive to want to know how often a person has an orgasm. It’s kind of weird too.

 

[Voidmatrix]

It’s excessive to want to know how often a person has an orgasm. It’s kind of weird too.

True, LMAO, but I don't think it said orgasm. I think they said masturbation and relationship to pornography. Now maybe I have a weird awareness of things, but there are groups of people that masturbate, but not to completion.

One love

 

[png]

We assumed a whole lot without having the necessary information, such as actual format and intent of questions and the detail breadth of the questionnaire.

Absolutely this. The guide spoke to me on the telephone for 40 mins and explained their motives. How over time their team had no choice but to implement such a comprehensive document. They sold it to me as harm reduction and a little bit of self defence. Due diligence.

I felt like it was genuine. I have no idea how it is to manage psychedelic monkeys. So I cant argue. I told them if they want to talk about my masturbation and sex habits maybe face to face once we've been introduced might be less weird.

Having spoken with our voices not fingers, explaining my intentions and previous experiences the guide accepted that they were satisfied without the forms.

Would be more exciting if they turned out to be a cult actually.

Interestingly on the male orgasm front. It is my belief that the male orgasm is so much shorter than the female equivalent because all the men who had 5 minute orgasms got killed and had their woman stolen while they rolled around in ecstasy.

 

[Jamie01]

True, LMAO, but I don't think it said orgasm. I think they said masturbation and relationship to pornography. Now maybe I have a weird awareness of things, but there are groups of people that masturbate, but not to completion.

One love

Masturbating in a group is even weirder!

 

[Voidmatrix]

Masturbating in a group is even weirder!

Of all the things that I've worded poorly hahahaha

One love

 

[png]

My attempts to be a professional lurker have momentarily failed and I blame the cordial and informative nature of you fearless masturbators. Going to scuttle back to my hole for a long while feeling reassured and grateful.