alcohol worse than crack and heroin..

[Electric.Sight]

The article makes a valid conclusion that the legal system does not reflect scientific evidence regarding drugs at all. I wouldn't go as far to say alcohol is "worse" than heroin, but I agree it's at least somewhere in the top 5 most harmful. (Note that I've never tried heroin or met anyone who has admitted to trying it.)

I'm down for controlled regulation of every substance based on science, with greater control the more harmful a substance is.
All drugs could have specific, pre-set legal requirements/harm reduction policies and individual prices per dose at the pharmacy.
The cost will help pay for research into substances; use/abuse/benefits/recoverment/harms etc.

I do agree more harm than good is being done and people do have the right to choose their own highs. We need drug control, not complete lack-thereof!
Addicts are faced with the choice of hideous painful withdrawals, or injecting 10% heroin + 15% random psychoactive (including diphenhydramine:?) mixed with 75% dog shit for good measure (And hoping not to go to jail at the same time!).
That's not harm prevention, that's harm creation!

This created harm is multiplied when the illegal drug money goes to fund legitimate violent and harmful crimes.
Combined with the fact it's costing and restricting many funds/resources meant to fight that very crime!:shock:
Finally to top it all off with an anvil; proto-pax's point says it all.

Legalize it and then figure out what needs to be done so people stop dieing.

Don't think I need to elaborate.

 

[Malaclypse]

I totally agree I just cant get my head around legalising heroin and cant see how it could possibly curb heroin addiction or the problems that come with it. I always had the same opinion as yourself, legalize everything but it seems crazy to legalise it and crack or meth, it would be irresponsible of a government to make these things readily available and they would, indirectly, be responsible for destroying peoples lives and creating harm.

I wonder if perhaps it was legal whether or not it would be readily available. There could still be a lot of social pressure to not really make it that accessible. I have a feeling that there wouldn't really be a flood of people looking to try it just because they could since there is such a stigma about it. Certainly some people would try it that wouldn't have, but perhaps others who are just attracted to whatever they aren't supposed to try would pass.

At least for one thing there could be better purity and the people that used it could know for sure what they were actually getting (well at least as well as we trust any product through the FDA etc). Also more information about proper dosages should be available to people to help with OD's. And you would hope that people still have support from friends and family members to where if they were having a problem, which should be noticeable, that people would help them out. And we should have better methods for addiction problems if everything was out in the open.

It certainly is a bit weird to think about, but I think it just might work out fine.

 

[StrangeLoop]

That said, there are numerous of people who drink a glass of wine now and than, not to get in some kind of trance, but because just because they like the taste of it or whatever.
Alcoholic beverages are not always drunk to get intoxicated. No-one smokes meth or crack because it smells so nice. if you smoke meth or crack, you by definition do it to get intoxicated, and the percentage of people who use crack or meth that has physical and/or psychological problems accecerbated by the substances is undoubtedly far higher than the percentage of ALL the people who drink alcoholic beverages now and then, for who the substance has become a problem.

People do enjoy the taste of alcoholic beverages, although usually not at first. It's only because a reward mechanism in the brain comes to associate the taste with the euphoria of ethanol intoxication. And although most people will claim not to feel effects from one or two drinks, there is still definitely psychoactive effects even at very low doses, the effects are just too subtle for most people to notice.

Also, my friend who I smoked meth with is (as far as I know) not some huge addict, nor is he a criminal. In fact most of the time I've seen him smoke it, he wasn't trying to get "fucked up" he was usually just using it to get something done. He'd smoke it to stay up late so he could study, or once so he could help a friend move into a new house, and often just to clean his own apartment. Like the housewives that used to pop speed pills all the time. It really seems more like he's self medicating some mild ADD (which we all have IMO), not itching for a fix.

Of course I'm kind of just in defensive mode on behalf of people I know that use or used to use this stuff. But I think you're kind of in defensive mode for alcohol on behalf of society. One of my best friends used to be a meth addict although he stopped after going to jail. In the end he died from alcohol poisoning (although I think there may have been opiates also involved, but I'm not defending opiates nor will I ever). I'm not saying alcohol (or the possible opiates) are to blame. Clearly my friend was the one with substance abuse problems and he has no one to blame but himself, may he rest in peace. Which is basically my whole point. People demonize different substances but you can never really blame inanimate objects for consequences that were actually a result of decisions made by capable intelligent beings.

 

[DimethylSpice]

Terrible shit that alcohol... and im guilty of drinking it to, but the shit is poison, liquid destruction. chaos.

 

[Virola78]

Didnt read thoroughly all the posts yet, but so far havent seen anyone refer to the book "Lies and Myths about Opiates" by Theodore Dalrymple. This book sure opened my eyes. See for yourself if you are interested.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0610f.asp

btw i dont agree with all he has to say. He obviously has not tried any drugs himself.
His picture of psychedelics is very off.

 

[corpus callosum]

Virola78- Ive heard of this guy and read this precee before.I would love to make him smoke 1/2 a gram of finest Afghan brown every day for 4-5 weeks then stop it abruptly.If what he experienced in the next 120 hours is the same as 'mild flu' then I would be surprised.Superficially the opiate withdrawal has some features in common with flu but the incredible depression that comes with it is not a feature of influenza.

I do agree with him on one point-it takes some concerted effort to get an opiate habit, such as using opiates several times daily for 2-3.5 weeks depending on the individuals mindset/make-up.Withdrawal is not life threatening in the absence of certain physical ailments but it certainly feels incredibly unpleasant and unsettling an experience.The hardest part by far is not the withdrawal, but staying off defeats many many users.

 

[jamie]

I actually believe that there is mild physical withdrawl with heavy cannabis use..this is not really anything new. I have experienced it myself and wont smoke chronically like that again becasue of how I felt for the next few days after I stopped..nothing like opiates or alcohol though. Maybe its just my brain comming back to life, last week I smoked one night and actaully felt really burned out and tired the next morning..usually Im fine smoking 2-3 days a month, but I smoked and then fell asleap..I think that it effected my normal hormone production or something while I slept.

When you say Afghan brown do you mean hash or opium/heroin?

 

[DMTripper]

I love shrooms even more after reading this article And I did love them a lot before

 

[DoingKermit]

I remember seeing this story on TV a few weeks ago and i thought it was good that the media has shed more light on the dangers of alcohol. Alcohol is just as destructive as crack or heroin, but in a different manner. My GF's dad died of alcohol and one of my best friends has been an alcoholic for about 5 years now, and a heroin/crack addict for longer. He said when comparing both heroin withdrawal and alcohol withdrawal, the alcohol was worse. I've seen him in some shit states and how he described the sheer horror of alcohol withdrawal made me almost scared to drink again... but i obviously did

In my eyes the problem with alcohol is the availability. Alcohol is advertised everywhere and you can literally buy a can of strong beer or cider for under 50p in some places. Pharmaceutical companies make buttloads of money on opioids that people get addicted to all the time (oxycodone is one example). I understand heroin is much stronger than the meds containing synthetic opioids (although morphine isn't far off) and so is more addictive, but i can see why people argue that it would be safer for doctors to prescribe it. People are going to take it regardless, so they might as well make a safer option available.

 

[corpus callosum]

Afghan brown is freebase heroin.

 

[DMTripper]

You can die from alcohol withdrawal. Cold turkey will never kill you.

 

[jamie]

you can have full on seizures durring alcohol withdrawl.

 

[jamie]

"•Sedative or hypnotic withdrawal shares many of the features of alcohol withdrawal, namely, agitation, disorientation, seizures, sympathetic hyperactivity, hypertension, insomnia, anxiety, and anorexia."

"The mortality rate from severe alcohol withdrawal and DT historically has been as high as 20% if untreated. Early recognition and improved treatment has reduced the mortality rate from DT to approximately 1-5%. Many patients with alcohol withdrawal have additional medical or traumatic conditions that may increase their associated risk of morbidity and mortality. Risk factors associated with increased mortality include cirrhosis, presenting in DTs at time of diagnosis, existence of underlying chronic pathology other than liver disease, and need for endotracheal intubation."

from here..

Withdrawal Syndromes: Practice Essentials, Pathophysiology, Epidemiology

Many illicit drugs and chemicals, including medications, produce withdrawal symptoms when their use is discontinued. This article primarily focuses on withdrawal from ethanol, sedative-hypnotics, opioids, stimulants, and gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB).

emedicine.medscape.com