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Alkaloids present in Mimosa stem bark - SAVE THE TREES!

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S

SyZyGyPSy

Tryptophilese Metaphysticus Anomalopteris III
So Swim was recently in contact with Jayce Callaway, who asked him to pass this information on to me so that I could in turn pass it on to you all:
DMT and yuremamine are present in mimosa stem bark, not just root bark.
The point of all of this is that one does not need to kill the tree to work with its alkaloids.
Also, even if one does kill the tree to harvest its root bark, it is a real shame to throw away the medicine in the rest of the plant.
Please pass this information on to your MH vendor(s). Tell them to tell their people to start making stem bark available. Realistically we'll have a hard time stopping the destructive harvesting of the root bark, but we can at least prevent the stem bark from going to waste if we let them know that there's a demand for it.
I have been concerned about the overharvesting of mimosa for some time now, as this source seems to be gaining popularity rapidly. As we are the ones who control the demand, it is our responsibility to pressure the supply side to move towards sustainability instead of raping the earth.
There's something far too ironic about us depleting the resources of these plants that tell us not to deplete earth's resources. It's time we started listening to them and changing the way these plants are harvested, marketed, etc.
Please.
 
I dont know where people get their juremas from and how its done, but I do know that mimosa is one of the strongest plants there is, and can survive pretty tough situations. Unless really A LOT of the roots is cut down, it will survive and regenerate. A friend from the northeast of Dreamland has experience with this and he has never seen a tree he harvested die.

but maybe some big vendors do harm the plants, I dont know.. just throwing some information out there
 
Yeah I know Trout outlined a method of harvesting from roots without killing the tree. But knowing the way industry goes I wouldn't be surprised to learn that at least some harvesters out there are killing the trees to make as much profit as possible in a short amount of time, instead of ensuring steady profit in the long term. That's just the way of capitolism in its current form.
Not sure about the yields... I'll try to remember to ask Callaway the next time I correspond with him and post that info if I can obtain it. But he seemed to think it was enough, was the impression I got... though probably not as rich as root bark, which is probably why it became popular, as it is probably the "richest" concentration, but that doesn't mean stem bark isn't worth extracting on.
 
If it is significant enough then I totally agree, even half the percentage of root bark would make it an interesting candidate for extraction. After all you don't need that much for a dose.

If you could find out that would be great - why waste the potential.
 
If it had half the yield, why not just go for Hawaiian chacruna leaves? SWIM was able to extract up to 7% DMT from those leaves. Not all are that high, but some are.

EDIT: That's a typo. SWIM meant to put 0.7%, not 7%. Sorry about that.
 
7% you mean .7%?

SWIM has heard that the levels in the stem bark are significantly less than the root bark. Maybe if one had access to the tree but to purchase it, one would have to deal with a lot more bulk for the same amount also other compounds may be present, although this may or may not matter. SWIM is guessing if the bark is not already sold, it is for a reason. It is not as though these people would just forget about it.
 
bufoman said:
7% you mean .7%?

SWIM has heard that the levels in the stem bark are significantly less than the root bark. Maybe if one had access to the tree but to purchase it, one would have to deal with a lot more bulk for the same amount also other compounds are likely present. SWIM is guessing if the bark is not already sold, it is for a reason. It is not as though these people would just forget about it.
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Ooops...yeah I meant to type 0.7%.
 
Trouts notes reports a finding of around .03% from stem bark in mimosa hostilis. This is not a significant amount. SWIM is unaware of many other studies which have found higher levels. SWIM has also heard of old heads obtaining the stem bark for cheap and reporting substantially low yields (not worth it).

Also this practice would be significantly more damaging to the trees than harvesting the root bark.
It is unlikely that the trees are damaged in the process of harvesting RB as they are done on plantations and can be easily harvested sustainably. But cutting the stem bark would damge the phloem which would form a scab, the tree would likely have to be killed to get a substantial amount. The phloem would not grow back as the roots do. Maybe if you harvested from branches? but either way the yield is very low, SWIM would be curious to know why Callaway would say this?

it seems that most of the MHRB is from plantations. The RB is not the only economic value of this plant it has been grown for a while for a variety of purposes. It is not commonly harvested from the wild.
 
SWIM likes DMT extracted from chacruna more than DMT extracted from mimosa. Its gentler. Mimosa has some alkaloids that chacruna doesn’t have, and apparently enough gets extracted with the DMT that SWIM can feel it.
 
I know that you know this but: Yes but this is not from the DMT, thus you like the raw alkaloid extraction better, if you purify the DMT it is no different from any source. The other alkaloids present can alter the experience, but SWIM should not say that the DMT is different but the RAW alkaloid extract is. This is a very interesting phenomenon especially with the unknown alkaloids.
 
Realize that the stem bark of Mimosa tenuiflora (which is believed to be same as hostillis) is harvested on a large scale already but not for dmt! It has a number of steroidal like triterpenoid compounds in its stem bark and many tannins that are good for burns and skin infections cuts etc. So when people say this tree is 1. in danger realize its not and 2. that's its being overharvested for dmt realize its not because that's not even the main commercial use of the plant. It also is used as a dye and for carpentry even for straight up burning. Check the wiki site for an overview of some of the many uses of this plant besides dmt. Mimmosa used to be cheaper also but when people realized people were using it for dmt they jacked up the price for exporting it etc (at least thats SWIMs opinion on the price).

Jurema - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I know that you know this but: Yes but this is not from the DMT, thus you like the raw alkaloid extraction better, if you purify the DMT it is no different from any source. The other alkaloids present can alter the experience, but SWIM should not say that the DMT is different but the RAW alkaloid extract is. This is a very interesting phenomenon especially with the unknown alkaloids.
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Yes and since SWIM believes most people don't really purify the dmt beyond 95% unless they put in the extra effort there is minor amounts of other compounds present.
 
burnt said:
Realize that the stem bark of Mimosa tenuiflora (which is believed to be same as hostillis) is harvested on a large scale already but not for dmt! It has a number of steroidal like triterpenoid compounds in its stem bark and many tannins that are good for burns and skin infections cuts etc. So when people say this tree is 1. in danger realize its not and 2. that's its being overharvested for dmt realize its not because that's not even the main commercial use of the plant. It also is used as a dye and for carpentry even for straight up burning. Check the wiki site for an overview of some of the many uses of this plant besides dmt. Mimmosa used to be cheaper also but when people realized people were using it for dmt they jacked up the price for exporting it etc (at least thats SWIMs opinion on the price).
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agree, burnt. The issue with the price also. In the northeast of Dreamland, where it serves traditional uses such as the ones you mentioned, and nobody knows about DMT (and also where it originally comes from), the prices are ridiculously low. Like 5-10 reais a kilo (in pieces), which is like maybe 2 to 4 euros!!

So once it was appropriated by these ethnobotanical sites, prices have risen are lot.

Theoretically one could ship from northeast for much much cheapers, than usually found, to all around the world in sustainable harvesting. The biggest issue would be custom of the receiving country, though, as usually it is needed to have official papers for importing plant material (even dead) in large quantities. Bureaucracy and shit
 
OFF TOPIC: I saw on "Myth Busters" that bamboo is so tough that it can actually grow right through a human body.
 
Wow, guess that's what I get for listening to a scientist! :) He he...

Seriously, thanks for all the info guys. For one thing I feel way better about buying bark now (aside from the whole prices thing, but oh well what can you do?)

As for the other alkaloids in MH, I for one dig the jungle spice. This makes me wonder, assuming jungle spice really is the degredation product of yuremamine as I suspect it to be, what the %age of yuremamine is in the stem bark? THAT could make it worth extracting on...

But given bufoman's point about that actually being more harmful for the tree, again I'm now perfectly content to go with root bark.

That's really good to know too that most mimosa is harvested sustainably from plantations. I guess I just assumed most harvesting practices followed the same earth-raping model used by so many other capitalist industries.
 
Wow, guess that's what I get for listening to a scientist!
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I think Mr. Callaway has a legitimate concern that overuse of dmt by western people may cause some kind of backlash against dmt betacarbolines and or ayahuasca thus interfering with his and others ability to continue conducting research on these substances. Although by telling you that westerners using dmt is causing over harvesting of mimosa is either an honest mistake or a deliberate fib to try and get people to use less of these substances for the reasons I have mentioned.
 
Yeah naw I wasn't meaning to diss on Callaway, just joking around. It's not my intention to tarnish his scientific reputation or anything, as I have much respect for the guy. I think his motives in mentioning it were legit, I'm assuming he must've had a similar impression to the one I had. It's easy for those of us who don't live in a place surrounded by mimosa trees to assume that they could be in danger of overharvesting just as so many other plants have been jeopardized by human activity in the past.

Just to clarify any misunderstanding here's the words from the horse's mouth:

The reason why we reported our work from stem branch bark of M. hostilis was to demonstrate that there is no need for people to uproot (and thus kill) the plant/tree. My thought was that if this info happened to get further out into the ethnobotanical community, as it apparently has, then it would be a personal pity to me if it should become scarce for this reason, like the California yew for example.
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So there you go, I'll let you form your own opinion from here. Anyway he just mentioned this as an aside to our discussion of the yuremamine molecule, I wouldn't make too big a thing about it.
 
His opinion is in my opinion well founded as it would be a shame, however perhaps some other plants are more of a concern. Not sure how common Caapi is for example.

But the pacific yew is a bad example to compare with. The pacific yew is a slow growing tree and it contains a very low concentration of taxol (the drug in it). Taxol is a very complex molecule, very difficult to synthesize. Taxol is one of the most successful anti cancer drugs ever, it saves many many lives each year. Dmt is a very easy molecule to synthesize (relative to taxol) has numerous natural sources and has never been shown to kill tumors. Now a days taxol is produced mainly semi synthetically from a precursor to taxol found in the leaves and its still costly despite tons of research into cell culture, genetic engineering, synthesis etc

By the way was anything mentioned on the activity of yuremamine? And do you have a name of the paper where they published the concentration in stem bark?
 
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