All death really is...

[Inner Paths]

Have you ever read Oliver Sacks? The level to which we depend on a simplified model of the universe really becomes apparent when studying minds that work differently than our own.

No but I will look into it

Yeah, the video definitely seems to have similar ideas to buddhism. I like to speculate that there is no one true reality but many different levels (or perceptions) operating simultaneously but what those different levels are I have no idea of - I also have always liked the idea of the brain as a receiver of consciousness and different levels of perception are the brain tuning into to a different wavelength or station of reality at a certain time (which could also be interpreted that any experience of perception is as real to that specific state as it is to consensus reality, be it waking reality, meditating, dreaming or psychedelic experiences).

 

[MooshyPeaches]

Who is the one that lives and dies?

 

[Jin]

i am just trying to brainstorm my ramblings, dont take what i write seriously , i hope i can offer an interesting read

Reincarnation --- hmmm we will get to that however first lets talk about birth and death

there is no birth and there is no death , atleast no one can claim remebering their birth as one is too young to remember it and when death comes one might not remember that too as the event may be shocking or for whatever reason i have never met anyone who claimed to remember his death or birth ,

all that a person will ever remember is their lifetimes

the philosophy that came up with reincarnation i think was just a metaphor to let us know that we have been continuously trapped in our own memories of life , going on forever and ever because we have forgotten our births and deaths , that is why we continuously reincarnate until we realize the Truth and break free of this circle eventually taking our place in eternity

the universe acording to some scientific models assumes the universe to have started at the big bang , thus the point where time began , today is the year 2011 as we say , what about year 2008 or 1965 did they happen ? yes they did , do they exist , yes they did , do they exist still now ?? sure because existence is continuous since big bang , buddha , jesus and everyone exists all the time ,

even the year 2050 and 2761 also exists when we might just take of for the stars , it all exists simoultaneously all the time ,

while we are stuck in 2011 and will move in a linear fashion in our own timelines , because we can only remember what we experience clearly in our awake reality time , we tend to forget dreams everyday , we can also not remember split second frames that the brain is putting together all the time , remember we see , experience everything through our minds , the master editor , worksman , artist and the genious it is .....pls the mind is simply great , one of the best pieces of machinery , " while we are stuck to this planet by the force of gravity hanging upside down , towards the moon and the sky - the mind make it look like we are standing here straight on earth with the sky above us " , thee mind takes all the complexity in the universe and reduces our lives into simple fights for survival - why does it do that , most probably survival and protection , cmmon the universe is really a very big place filled with billions of secrets and so much , the mind is just trying to protect us from all that greatness

the truth is birth has happened , the truth is death has happened , at a point of time you were born , at a point of time you died - maybe you've not seen it yet because it has already happened at some future time , but the mind will not allow you to see time that way , and slowly you'll find it at your own pace and then BAMMM back to your birth since you'll forget your death , you'll be stuck into your memory forever and ever , maybe you already are , maybe all of this , even reading this is all your memory as it is truly your memory after all that you're experiencing , as you read this my words become a part of your memory ,,,,,,,

BREAK FREE - free of the circle , once you become enlightnened as they say , i don't know i am not sure whether i am enligtened or not but once you do , they say you'll break free of the circle of reincarnation or just lets say your memory which is on a feedback loop to eternity , if you remember your birth and death clearly not like the dreams they say you will break free and walk into eternity

in the universe everything has happened , everything from start to end simoultaneously , the big bang to eternity is just a second for God , its is his one breath , and then another and another , its a massively complex system that is never meant to be understood by a human brain , even what i say are a madman's ramblings comparedto the real truth , which neither can i explain nor even try to since i am so inadequetly meant to , a human being can never understand , comphrehend ,or even see the whole truth , only what is offered to him is a glimpse , a glimse of eternity - that is life

i am just a human being , how can i explain the truth when i with my human brain can't even go near it , i am bound untill i break free and that is what all death really is ..... it is the freedom from the illusion and the walk into eternity , and when we all break free we shall see

till than we can just speculate...........don't know how cool that is , speculation hmmmm

 

[Orion]

All death is....is none of us have any idea

All this post is... is a waste of calories exercising fingers.

Also yeah, on a very basic level, death in physical terms is a reunion with the earth. That's if you consider yourself separate in the first place. That's the real illusion. That you are alive as one being. You are just an expression of matter, in physical terms. This much is undeniable.

 

[actualfactual]

Nice one Nitegazer, definitely some other interpretations I wouldn't have thought of which gets the old cranium working! Gibran2's earlier post about his DMT journey where an entity told him not to worry because he was never really alive anyway has got me on a mad web search about the fact that our perceptions are all we have and all external matter might not be as it seems or even real, really thought provoking stuff. Here's a youtube link that goes into it in a neat fashion (the video seems kinda dated with 80's editing though and a funny voiceover).

Perception - The reality beyond matter

cool video

 

[SKA]

I love the waterdrop analogy too.
Like the tissues of the body decay back into their constituent elements, I find it not hard to imagine that so does the individual consciousness.
Your character would decay back into it's constituent elements. Connections between molecules are broken, and so connections between different parts of your
"character" are broken. The basic elements would be re-unified with the mass. In case of molecules this mass would be the source of all matter; the body of the earth,
in case of the elements of which a individual consciousness is built up this would be the unknown source of consciousness.

I have no trouble imagining that this source of consciousness might just be the very same "place" that enough vaporised DMT takes us.


PS:
C'mon House. Just because none of us know, doesn't mean it can not be fun or even enlightening to discuss what death is.
Nothing in this life is for certain, so if you think things we don't know are unworthy of discussion; why discuss anything at all?

 

[lontana da verita]

When we think of death, I think we are speculating about an "end" projected into the future. I skeptical of the objective existence of the future or past. Subjectively, there is only the present, so when I think about death, I ask myself "can there be an end to the present?" In other words if I am alive right now throughout all these changes constantly happening to me and my environment, could I ever really cease to be? My body is constantly "dying" and becoming a part of the environment, and so is the environment becoming "alive" and a part of me. Everything beyond one's present subjective experience is speculation however informed it may be. I think solipsism is a philosophical cop out, so what I'm really getting out is can the "experiencer" stop "experiencing?" If time doesn't exist outside of our minds, how can whatever we are cease to be in a future that doesn't exist?

As far as the relationship between the individual consciousness and the cosmic consciousness, I like to borrow the zen take on non-duality: not one, not two. Essentially, it means that in the relationship between two seeming opposites each is not entirely distinct, but neither is each entirely the same. The relationship is instead something else entirely. Maybe the individual consciousness is like an island the rises above the waves in life and descends in death. The identity of the island is not lost, but there is no place where one "island" ends and another begins.

 

[Beelzebozo]

i am just trying to brainstorm my ramblings, dont take what i write seriously , i hope i can offer an interesting read

Reincarnation --- hmmm we will get to that however first lets talk about birth and death

there is no birth and there is no death , atleast no one can claim remebering their birth as one is too young to remember it and when death comes one might not remember that too as the event may be shocking or for whatever reason i have never met anyone who claimed to remember his death or birth ,

all that a person will ever remember is their lifetimes

the philosophy that came up with reincarnation i think was just a metaphor to let us know that we have been continuously trapped in our own memories of life , going on forever and ever because we have forgotten our births and deaths , that is why we continuously reincarnate until we realize the Truth and break free of this circle eventually taking our place in eternity

the universe acording to some scientific models assumes the universe to have started at the big bang , thus the point where time began , today is the year 2011 as we say , what about year 2008 or 1965 did they happen ? yes they did , do they exist , yes they did , do they exist still now ?? sure because existence is continuous since big bang , buddha , jesus and everyone exists all the time ,

even the year 2050 and 2761 also exists when we might just take of for the stars , it all exists simoultaneously all the time ,

while we are stuck in 2011 and will move in a linear fashion in our own timelines , because we can only remember what we experience clearly in our awake reality time , we tend to forget dreams everyday , we can also not remember split second frames that the brain is putting together all the time , remember we see , experience everything through our minds , the master editor , worksman , artist and the genious it is .....pls the mind is simply great , one of the best pieces of machinery , " while we are stuck to this planet by the force of gravity hanging upside down , towards the moon and the sky - the mind make it look like we are standing here straight on earth with the sky above us " , thee mind takes all the complexity in the universe and reduces our lives into simple fights for survival - why does it do that , most probably survival and protection , cmmon the universe is really a very big place filled with billions of secrets and so much , the mind is just trying to protect us from all that greatness

the truth is birth has happened , the truth is death has happened , at a point of time you were born , at a point of time you died - maybe you've not seen it yet because it has already happened at some future time , but the mind will not allow you to see time that way , and slowly you'll find it at your own pace and then BAMMM back to your birth since you'll forget your death , you'll be stuck into your memory forever and ever , maybe you already are , maybe all of this , even reading this is all your memory as it is truly your memory after all that you're experiencing , as you read this my words become a part of your memory ,,,,,,,

BREAK FREE - free of the circle , once you become enlightnened as they say , i don't know i am not sure whether i am enligtened or not but once you do , they say you'll break free of the circle of reincarnation or just lets say your memory which is on a feedback loop to eternity , if you remember your birth and death clearly not like the dreams they say you will break free and walk into eternity

in the universe everything has happened , everything from start to end simoultaneously , the big bang to eternity is just a second for God , its is his one breath , and then another and another , its a massively complex system that is never meant to be understood by a human brain , even what i say are a madman's ramblings comparedto the real truth , which neither can i explain nor even try to since i am so inadequetly meant to , a human being can never understand , comphrehend ,or even see the whole truth , only what is offered to him is a glimpse , a glimse of eternity - that is life

i am just a human being , how can i explain the truth when i with my human brain can't even go near it , i am bound untill i break free and that is what all death really is ..... it is the freedom from the illusion and the walk into eternity , and when we all break free we shall see

till than we can just speculate...........don't know how cool that is , speculation hmmmm

An interesting idea, one that's occurred to me before.

This thought used to bother me, but then I realized. . . if you can't remember it (who is this "you" that remembers anyway?) then does it really happen "again?" Who keeps count? If there's no continuous observer that observes this "repetition," is it really repeated?

I have absolutely no idea what happens when we die, but it doesn't matter especially. This moment is still this moment. Honestly, all my musings about death involve the "ego" that's been constructed in this body going away. Which is comforting for me. The ego gets confused, gets caught up in fear and all kinds of silly things; outside of it is just peace.

All the skunky thoughts that can be thunk
Are like sour wine
From withered vines
When the moment's waiting to be drunk!

Hooray for bad poetry.

Cheers!

 

[FiorSirtheoir]

We know what death is, it has been explained over and over for thousands if not millions of years. Read Joseph Campbell's Transformations of Myth Through Time, read the Vedics. Now we may not have experiential knowledge in regard to it on a subjective level for this particular life time/experience, unless of coarse you are into entheogens and spiritual esoteric studies (a rocket scientist is into the esoteric study of aerodynamics).

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

All death really is, is the individual consciousness' 100% actualisation of the universal infinite consciousness/Godhead

so to reverse that is to say that life is the de-actualization of the universal infinite consciousness?

Atman... how would that fit into this?

 

[Korey]

I have mixed feelings about death. Sometimes I feel like it's some collective consciousness we're all able to experience, but most of the time I feel like it's the ultimate punishment, complete loss of consciousness and existence. I don't know where I stand on the subject to be honest.

 

[Ice]

Death is not avoidable.
Death is not yet understandable.
My curiosity of death is only outweighed by the knowing that it will be greater than my most blissful fantasy or worse than my wildest nightmare. Maybe neither...
Life is about getting comfortable with death.
Human nature is to explain the unexplainable.
Think what you have to make it through the day until you die.

 

[FiorSirtheoir]

I think some Joseph Campbell or Ken Wilbur would help the conversation.

 

[clearlyone]

Who is the one that lives and dies?

All the world in that question. Hold the question to know without answer.

I think the universe is like an eternal etch a sketch. Death is like the universe shaking itself.

Perfect! I'm shaking for all eternity! Love

 

[Korey]

All death is....is none of us have any idea

All this post is... is a waste of calories exercising fingers.

Also yeah, on a very basic level, death in physical terms is a reunion with the earth. That's if you consider yourself separate in the first place. That's the real illusion. That you are alive as one being. You are just an expression of matter, in physical terms. This much is undeniable.

I think it's more respectable to claim one has no idea about death than for one to say he has any inkling on the subject, don't be so quick to be dismissive of posts like that, I don't think he was trying to be rude at all.

 

[sheepie]

I agree with OP.

I remember on LSD I was thinking. There's no difference between life and death, it's just a mental abstraction. Consciousness continues...

You phrased it nicely

 

[Tek]

This thread reminds me of a quote from the Life of David Gale

"We spend our whole lives trying to stop death. Eating, inventing, loving, praying, fighting... killing. But what do we really know about death? Just that nobody comes back. But there comes a point in life - a moment - when your mind outlives its desires, its obsessions, when your habits survive your dreams, and when your losses... Maybe death is a gift. You wonder."

 

[Perderabo]

My view is that being alive divides this near infinite universe into 2 parts. This tiny little bit called me and then everything else. Once i die the devision will be over and i will be apart of the universe again

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

My view is that being alive divides this near infinite universe into 2 parts. This tiny little bit called me and then everything else. Once i die the devision will be over and i will be apart of the universe again

Fascinating, where is the line or demarcation of the division you imply?

 

[Perderabo]

My view is that being alive divides this near infinite universe into 2 parts. This tiny little bit called me and then everything else. Once i die the devision will be over and i will be apart of the universe again

Fascinating, where is the line or demarcation of the division you imply?

do you not understand what parts of matter in the immediate vicinity compromise you and what parts compromise the chair or computer for example