Well I am after various experiences concerning different preparation method, as there is alot of contradicting information online ranging from Ibotenic Acid is etxtremeley toxic to Ibotenic Acid is actually amazing medicinally.
i understand my results are probably completely wrong, but this is not something i want to spend much time on right now. but the AI bot identified a few papers that are exploring potential positive effects of ibotenic acid used in low doses, including cancer treatment.
That's why you should not take the purported "information" at face value, but look at the reasoning and/or sources for it (if any at all), and think for yourself. If I were to say that you need to mix Amanita muscaria with rat poison for best effects, I would be supposedly adding even more "contradicting information", but you and anyone willing to think critically would immediately discard such "information". Likewise when some Youtube guru says "eating neurotoxins is good for you, actually".
Being a regular user does not mean you know better or at all what harm you may have caused to yourself.
In this case, what danger is there in fully decarbing the mushrooms? The opportunity cost of missing out on a presumed "wonderful medicine"? There will be less clear cases, but this specific one is a no-brainer.
Im sorry Pedro but you’ve lost me completely here, I mean if we’re going to treat Facebook posts, Quacks and similar sources as being on the same level as the papers referenced here, then I don’t really see how the discussion can move forward in a meaningful way.i don't have any stakes in this, but i do think it is important to get various experiences before we draw our own conclusions. there were papers that said that roundup was great for us once upon a time. amanita dreamer does have a lot to gain from making the mushrooms look safe, but we don't know what other gains there are to be had from making them look dangerous either. we have seen enough prohibitions to know better than to blindly trust perceived authority, and we know what kind of strings that perceived authority can pull.
i am not taking any sides or anything, but i can see why a person would be willing to listen to somebody who is a regular user of amanita muscaria even if the papers say otherwise. that said, you mentioned this is peer reviewed. i have not dived into this myself yet, but i will do if i find time or i intend to use amanitas without decarbing, but if there is heavy peer review then i am certainly more likely to believe the sources in question, but we have even seen many cases of biased peer review. these things are a minefield and to blindly trust scientific papers is potentially as dangerous as blindly trusting somebody online.
i know that is a taboo opinion and i think when it comes to choosing to put something into your body, until you are confident you can accept full responsibility for yourself you are better off not doing it at all, rather than trusting anybody, whoever they might be. if in doubt, don't put new things into your body.
be safe!
edit:
i just committed a moral crime and used AI to save some time
as i said, this could be completely inaccurate as it came from AI, which is well known for being completely wrong. but it's also worth mentioning that just because something can kill you doesn't always mean there are no benefits to it. the dose makes the poison.
absolutely, i agree with you 100%. which is what i meant when i said "i think when it comes to choosing to put something into your body, until you are confident you can accept full responsibility for yourself you are better off not doing it at all". i would suggest a decarb if anybody asked me. would that be medical advice?
i didn't say that at all.
I think @PedroSanchez likely means something like this (and Pedro correct me if I'm wrong). When discussing psychoactives and toxicity, scientific sources will very often consider them just "toxic" and dangerous with complete disregard for doses, etc. As they aren't interested in the psychoactive uses (uses that very often they consider illegitimate), and often are writing and researching from a prohibitionist perspective.
That is very misleading, as it makes no difference whatsoever between the toxicity of ibotenic acid and muscimol, nor acknowledges that muscimol isn't toxic at low doses (although I suspect psychoactivity is considered a form of toxicity by the authors). The claim that ibotenic acid isn't psychoactive is also misleading, as it's a prodrug for muscimol but, again, the authors likely don't care about such details. Lastly, the claim "can be fatal at high enough doses" applies to absolutely anything including water.
yes that is a great example, thank you. i am also adding that sometimes these authors know that they are being misleading, which is why my point is a controversial one. we don't know what the facts are unfortunately. anecdotal evidence is not completely meaningless if we have enough of it.
Probably the clearest example of what you describe is the original study that claimed that LSD damaged chromosomes. That's why I mentioned the need to look at the reasons, the sources, and also that there will be less clear cases. And the LSD case was finally proven to be wrong. If the only evidence against it had been "Tim Leary said so", it would be best to assume that LSD does, indeed, harm chromosomes.
i didn't say that at all.
i know i am at risk of upsetting people here but the science is not always on our side. sorry if that offends you, but we do have a long history of examples. i am not saying to trust facebook posts. as for quacks, how do we even define a quack? plenty of histories most honored scientists were considered quacks in their day.
i'm not trying to personally attack you, i hope you can see that.
I don't think you did, I mean you made a post and the replies have been consistent with your post. I personally haven't perceived any hostility or negativity in the replies. To me it was a very constructive discussion so take what you want from it.i have clearly hit a nerve. i am not here to upset anybody so i am going to stop now before this gets too painful
The core issue is that personal experience cannot be reliably linked to dosage or processing time. When you are boiling or extracting something derived from nature, there are too many variables involved. In addition, most people are not capable of distinguishing between different compounds or isolating their effects. What they report is usually self-suggestion or a mixture of effects, and even if someone believes they can tell the difference, there is no way to verify that claim based on experience alone. Without analytical science, you cannot determine what is actually present or in what quantity. For that reason, relying on subjective experience in this context is largely pointless.
| Context | Dose | Effects Observed | Notes / Sources |
|---|---|---|---|
| Minimum psychoactive dose (human est.) | ~30 mg oral | Initial CNS stimulation: euphoria, confusion, perceptual changes, agitation | Derived from Amanita muscaria content per cap; average cap = ~6–10 mg ibotenic acid; multiple caps usually ingested |
| Average psychoactive dose (human est.) | 30–60 mg oral | Mixed effects: CNS stimulation followed by ataxia, dysphoria, hallucinations; muscimol likely dominant | Co-ingestion with muscimol complicates isolation of ibotenic acid effects |
| Toxic effects (human) | ≥50–100 mg oral (estimated) | Delirium, ataxia, seizures, deep somnolence, vomiting | Human case reports show wide individual variability; fatalities rare |
| Seizure threshold (human case reports) | Unknown exact dose; likely >60–100 mg | Generalized seizures in severe intoxications | Rare but documented in emergency tox reports |
| Fatal dose (human) | Not well-defined | Deaths from ibotenic acid alone not confirmed; severe cases resolve with supportive care | Mixed ingestion with other toxins more dangerous |
| Rodent oral LD₅₀ | ~38 mg/kg (mouse, oral) | Convulsions, CNS toxicity, neurodegeneration | [Rogers et al., 1982]; [TerMedia 2023] |
That discussion has now been split into its own thread here: Amanita muscaria and urine drinking in Siberia
Converting Preparing | Amanita Dreamer
