Anyone growing Yopo?

[Tabaluga]

zaka, sorry for the confusion about the nectaries. My memory was playing tricks on me. ignore I ever mentioned them as they are on both species.
It's the involucres on the new flowers that are the main way to tell the species apart.

 

[Zaka]

Irie,
No worries T! It didn't help that I was toasted at the time, either!
So I remeber that I bookmarked a link to this page, when I first studied this feature!!
Are they characteristic to all Anadenanthera sp,????

Here's some more links that may help sussing this out;
Anadenanthera sp.
And can anyone translate the description at the bottom of this one???
Respect,
Z

 

[jamie]

Can someone please provide links to analysis of peregrina seed where 5meoDMT was the dominant alklaoid? I cant find them. I know that 5meoDMT has been found in the seeds, but from what I gathered it was always far less ammounts than bufotenine. Ott is the person people should refer to when talking about anadenanthers, I would be careful sourcing shultes work etc. Didnt Ott also conclude that perigrinas main active alkaloid is bufotenine?

Shultes work should be dismissed IMO. I have extracted a lot of bufotenine over the years and it quickly becomes clear that normal teks do not extract anything other than maybe trace ammounts of it. I have no idea what sort of method was being used way back by these people so it's just sort of up in the air as to what was really going on. Even 1% 5meoDMT with the 4-5+% bufotenine would have the bufotenine overriding the 5meoDMT. It is still going to be a bufotenine dominant experience in that case.

If you listen to the old report Terrence gave of yopo snuff it also sounded very much like a bufotenine experience..especially concidering her said it was hallucinogenic(but not enough to break through) but felt like being hit over the head with a 2x4. That sounds more like a mid level bufotenine trip to me.

5meoDMT does not seem to be a super stable molecule from what I understand..I have a hard time believing that it will make it through that roasting process to any appreciable degree. I am going to assume for now that it wont. We can agree to disagree. When I can find a verifiable source for perigrina I guess I can put this to the test with both bioassay and tlc. I could be wrong.

I know that 69ron claimed to have peregrina that he was sure we the legit yopo. I dunno how credible he is here any longer but he did know alot about bufotenine and anadenanthera and ran tests on peregrina as well and claimed to only find trace ammounts of 5meoDMT compared to the much higher bufotenine levels.

Here is what Wikipedia says

"Claims of Anadenanthera peregrina containing DMT and 5-MeO-DMT as their main active ingredients are based on rare cases where these compounds are found in larger quantities than bufotenine. Typical acid base extraction techniques utilizing strong bases such as sodium hydroxide solution will exclude bufotenin from the extraction, in favor of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT. It is believed[citation needed] that such extractions have contributed to the misconception that bufotenin is a minor alkaloid in yopo. The majority of the extractions confirm that bufotenin is primarily responsible for the effects of yopo with the other compounds usually appearing in quantities too small to produce noticeable effects in an average yopo dose of 5-10 grams[citation needed].

The beans have been found to contain up to only 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT and 0.16% DMT.[13] The leaves and bark also contain small amounts of DMT, 5-MeO-DMT and related compounds"

I dont know where Wikipedia sources that information from though so that is all heresay for the moment as far as I am concerened.

There is also the problem concerning the 2 different varieties of Anadenanthera Peregrina..which one are we talking about? It is possible that the Piaroa are selecting only a specific strain that is 5meoDMT dominant..but then we would need some more substancial evidence for that conclusion I think. TLC analysis of true piaroa prepared yopo and of the raw beans would be the best.

 

[Lago Chiller]

Irie Lago,
I have 5 trees in total.
One is 3ft, the others are all knocking on 30+...
These teardrop saucers are what I thought T was referring too as nectaries...
As I said found them on the M.V.'s....as well as on some local Piptadenia family trees.....
The tallest one, 1st pic, was really lanky for the first couple of years....Staking them is good!!!
Topping them at desired height will get them to canopy out...
I can see flower buds on the other trees but it's hard to get a good shot!!!
Respect,
Z

"One is 3ft, the others are all knocking on 30+..."
Lol I guess the wine I had as I was posting yesterday might've had an effect.

Out of 7 seeds planted the 2 in my pictures shot right up, the others are very small, 6-8" tops. Except for one I traded, these were grown using identical methods, materials and soilless mixes. Is this uneven growth a characteristic of either or both species?

 

[Lago Chiller]

Irie,
No worries T! It didn't help that I was toasted at the time, either!
So I remeber that I bookmarked a link to this page, when I first studied this feature!!
Are they characteristic to all Anadenanthera sp,????

Here's some more links that may help sussing this out;
Anadenanthera sp.
And can anyone translate the description at the bottom of this one???
Respect,
Z

Even when magnified I can find no tear drop shaped saucers(nectaries?) on any of the plants named as peregrina in the links you posted.

 

[Zaka]

Even when magnified I can find no tear drop shaped saucers(nectaries?) on any of the plants named as peregrina in the links you posted.

Irie Chill,
First peregrina example, branch on the right...seems to look like somethings there....
But I guess it's hard with some dried up 40yr old specimen......(not talking about me )
Respect,
Z

 

[nen888]

Can someone please provide links to analysis of peregrina seed where 5meoDMT was the dominant alklaoid? I cant find them. I know that 5meoDMT has been found in the seeds, but from what I gathered it was always far less ammounts than bufotenine. Ott is the person people should refer to when talking about anadenanthers, I would be careful sourcing shultes work etc. Didnt Ott also conclude that perigrinas main active alkaloid is bufotenine?

Shultes work should be dismissed IMO. I have extracted a lot of bufotenine over the years and it quickly becomes clear that normal teks do not extract anything other than maybe trace ammounts of it. I have no idea what sort of method was being used way back by these people so it's just sort of up in the air as to what was really going on. Even 1% 5meoDMT with the 4-5+% bufotenine would have the bufotenine overriding the 5meoDMT. It is still going to be a bufotenine dominant experience in that case.

If you listen to the old report Terrence gave of yopo snuff it also sounded very much like a bufotenine experience..especially concidering her said it was hallucinogenic(but not enough to break through) but felt like being hit over the head with a 2x4. That sounds more like a mid level bufotenine trip to me.

5meoDMT does not seem to be a super stable molecule from what I understand..I have a hard time believing that it will make it through that roasting process to any appreciable degree. I am going to assume for now that it wont. We can agree to disagree. When I can find a verifiable source for perigrina I guess I can put this to the test with both bioassay and tlc. I could be wrong.

I know that 69ron claimed to have peregrina that he was sure we the legit yopo. I dunno how credible he is here any longer but he did know alot about bufotenine and anadenanthera and ran tests on peregrina as well and claimed to only find trace ammounts of 5meoDMT compared to the much higher bufotenine levels.

Here is what Wikipedia says

"Claims of Anadenanthera peregrina containing DMT and 5-MeO-DMT as their main active ingredients are based on rare cases where these compounds are found in larger quantities than bufotenine. Typical acid base extraction techniques utilizing strong bases such as sodium hydroxide solution will exclude bufotenin from the extraction, in favor of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT. It is believed[citation needed] that such extractions have contributed to the misconception that bufotenin is a minor alkaloid in yopo. The majority of the extractions confirm that bufotenin is primarily responsible for the effects of yopo with the other compounds usually appearing in quantities too small to produce noticeable effects in an average yopo dose of 5-10 grams[citation needed].

The beans have been found to contain up to only 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT and 0.16% DMT.[13] The leaves and bark also contain small amounts of DMT, 5-MeO-DMT and related compounds"

I dont know where Wikipedia sources that information from though so that is all heresay for the moment as far as I am concerened.

There is also the problem concerning the 2 different varieties of Anadenanthera Peregrina..which one are we talking about? It is possible that the Piaroa are selecting only a specific strain that is 5meoDMT dominant..but then we would need some more substancial evidence for that conclusion I think. TLC analysis of true piaroa prepared yopo and of the raw beans would be the best.

..this is very interesting jamie..thanks for raising the issue..
i also don't think, from what i know or have seen of yopo type ceremony that 5meo is the main alkaloid in there..
in the late 90s i heard from a well known source that A. columbrina seeds had been bioassayed leading to powerful entheogenic effects, and yet GCMS showed they were over 90% Bufotenine..
experimenting with Cebil seeds and p. harmala i also discovered presumed 90% bufotenine to be a deep, visionary and unique experience..there was certainly almost no 5meo (if any) in there..
i wish, like you, i knew more..
.

 

[jamie]

Another thing that makes me lean towards bufotenine nen is the videos themselves of the amazonians snuffing yopo..I took extracted bufotenine(and w/e is in those seeds) about 100 times in very large doses and the way they act on video is typical of bufotenine in my experience with the stuff..the fact that they have spatulas that they use to purge with before hand even makes sense, as purging before you take bufotenine in doses like that can really help deal with the instant side effects. I tried that also.

Ive seen a video of an amazonian curradero in germany blowing yopo up some girls nose in a ceremony and she acted nothing like you would expect a person to act on a high dose of 5meoDMT..she acted like she was peaking on bufotenine. A large dose of bufotenine will have an extremely visionary peak(with a sort of breakthrough possible at the largest doses) while still cohernat enough to sit and talk about it, while at the same time being sick as hell.

It is just speculation from some person that what I was sold as peregrina was not pergrina anyway..how do I know anyone else here who claims to have had peregrina ever really had peregrina? What ever I had it was bufotenine I smoked..

Im gunna track down some real peregrina when I have some extra money in the next few months though and do some work there to see whats going on. Ideally I would get seeds from 2 different strains.

 

[relent]

Since there is clearly extensive experience with cultivating this plant here... I currently have two young plants, between half a foot and a foot tall. These were growing well, then had an encounter with sub 50-degree temperatures, at which point they were brought inside and placed in a suitable indoor habitat. The smaller of the two has dropped nearly all of its leaves, while the lever is faring better. We are goi.g on the fifth month indoors here, and neither has shown any additional growth or branching. I understand these trees can go dormant, but as they are being kept at 70-80 degrees and given around 12hra of light a day, what else could be preventing new growth? There is a single bud at the tip of each main stem, but no visible change in months.