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Are low doses of shrooms enjoyable?

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Sedrick

Sedrick

Rising Star
Hey there nexus, from the first day i took psychedelics i always took them in the "strong" category. Like my first LSD trip was 180mu, DMT is never really "not strong" and my first shroom trip was a level 5 trip, i actually reported that one here on the nexus.

I just wonder can i take like 1 gramm dried golden teacher or like 2.5 gramm atlantis truffels just to get into the psychedelic headspace, meditatng somehwat listen to psychedelic musik and enjoy myself?

Dont get me wrong i use psychedelics for self improvement and especially DMT to explore other realms, but to do this i need so much time between the trips to integrade them. Those Trips who help me the most are always so extreme difficult to take that its not just a thing for just another weekend.

I never ever took a light to moderate dose yet and i just want to know if those can be relaxing. All i want to do is get to the psychedelic headspace, relaxing and just enjoying it. No hyperslaps, no extremly difficult experiences that ultimatly help me to get my live in order just relaxation and some insights here and there. Maybe some nice visuals. Is that possible? Or are psychedelics always hard to digest, no matter how low the dose? Would really aprreciate some answers from experience or personal thought on this subject, no matter if for or against. Debates are always the best thing as they open up the full spectrum of possibilities. :p
 
Although it can be very enjoyable, I typically wouldn't bother. It can enhance certain aspects like listening to music or looking at art, possibly a hike in the nature but I personally feel lower doses are kind of annoying.

You're building up and once you get there you ask yourself, is that it?

You're going to experience the same intensity of a lower dose somewhere at the come up stage, and on the comedown. Might as well dose right and have a deeper experience.

The only situation I would do lower doses of psyches is when I feel bored to be somewhere, and than take just enough to make it more interesting in my head and not that much that it is obvious that I'm tripping. This takes a lot of experience to get the dose right, and you might need to do a few test and trials to get that sweet spot but if you've got a steady batch feel free to experiment.

This is also my personal experience, it might not work for you but I hope you gained some insight on what and how you could do.
 
Well, the thing is that shrooms have a difficult personality. You can get extremely varying results from them. Actually, to me, a sub-breakthrough (but visual) dose of DMT feels much, much lighter and nicer than shrooms of any dosage.

Like in the spring, I had a spell of relatively low-dose shroom experiences that were like having a very angry drill sergeant behind my back, shouting military abuse into my mind like what a fucking disgrace I am, how can I live like this, stop wasting fucking time, etc... It was a push in the right direction, but due to the incredibly high stress level, more debiliating than anything else. I got the message, and came off shrooms for half a year and concentrated on life stuff instead.

But yes, you can definitely use smaller doses. Don't use sub-visual doses though in my opinion, as I experienced it, it's more likely to give you really bad anxiety than anything else. 1g dried cube would be the minimum I'd drop.
 
As is often the case with these things, personal experience may vary. I experimented a couple of times with low doses of shrooms and find they can have some positive effects.

I noticed that they allowed me to be a little more relaxed and I was able to laugh easier. They put me in a generally calm state of mind, but also I felt slightly stimulated at the same time. This is around the 1g dose.
 
Sedrick said:
I just wonder can i take like 1 gramm dried golden teacher or like 2.5 gramm atlantis truffels just to get into the psychedelic headspace, meditatng somehwat listen to psychedelic musik and enjoy myself?
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I guess yes, but this question can only be answered by yourself (and is only valid for this particular moment). I am looking forward to read your report of your experience.

Sedrick said:
Maybe some nice visuals. Is that possible? Or are psychedelics always hard to digest, no matter how low the dose?
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PsyDuckmonkey said:
Well, the thing is that shrooms have a difficult personality.
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What you are experiencing (during a "psychedelic" experience) is always yourself, it is all (from) you. Psychs are just one stimuli out of infinte which can trigger the upcoming of a certain topic. It is not about the topic itself but the way to deal (coping) with it.

AwesomeUsername said:
The only situation I would do lower doses of psyches is when I feel bored to be somewhere, and than take just enough to make it more interesting in my head
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This behaviour is called drug abuse.

tseuq
 
You know, Christ said “the lukewarm I vomit from my mouth;” and, that’s how I feel about people who chip away at psychedelics and take piss-ant amounts, and go to clubs, and go to class, and go to the mall, and, you know, this is not the program, folks. I mean, it’s somebody’s program, but I’m interested in life-changing experiences, and the wonderful thing about psychedelics is that, as drugs, they are the safest drugs known to pharmacology. -terence McKenna

-eg
 
tseuq said:
What you are experiencing (during a "psychedelic" experience) is always yourself, it is all (from) you. Psychs are just one stimuli out of infinte which can trigger the upcoming of a certain topic. It is not about the topic itself but the way to deal (coping) with it.
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That is of course technically correct.

Still, according to my experiences and the discussions I've had with others, there seem to be marked differences between the tendencies of substances, and even different doses of the same substance, to be more or less manageable or emotionally disruptive.

And the thing with dosage is that the "dosage-difficulty" curve is highly nonlinear and non-monotonous.
 
universecannon said:
I personally love low doses...so versatile. But to each their own
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Apparently in quite the minority here, but I tend to agree. OP asked if a gram or so of cubes would be "relaxing", and I would say personally that that could very well be the case-in the right set and setting ( yeah even low doses , same consideration.) Combined with some good herb, if you find that the two synergize as I do, and the right head-space, then you could have yourself a good meditative experience.

Personally, this only applies to shrooms, I find them the most dose-versatile of all psychs I've experienced. Low dose DMT can be very relaxing, or mind-numbingly annoying. And LSD gives me a very uncomfortable feeling of being stuck in between at insufficient doses. And again, the synergy with weed helps make it even more adjustable. I'm a firm adherent and practicer of micro-dosing psilo as well, but that's not the focus here.

It's a personal matter, OP, try it out. There's some strong feelings regarding 'sub-heroic' doses here it seems, but I don't think it's a blasphemy or anything. ;)
 
I dont like the 'in between' feeling on low doses of dmt, shrooms or acid , but low doses of changa made with lots of harmalas can be very pleasant, especially out in nature, on a beach etc. Also indoors, getting deeply into music. Easier to reach whatever level is comfortable and sustain it as long as you like with repeated tokes on the pipe.
 
My experience with psychedelics is about as deep as the OP or less so, but.. I can really recommend Truffels microdosing. Those from Holland are all energizing (except maybe hollandia strain, those suck) and feel sublime in low quantities. Do mind, they can turn slightly more intense, say, when your feeling a little mystical a weird thought may just push you over the edge into full tripping. That happened to me once.
 
@PsyDuckmonkey;

In my experience, I find psychs (psilocybin/psilocin, DMT, LSD, mescaline) pretty stable in its dosage-effect relation.

Like T. Leary postulated, the setting seems to play a crucial role in the experience of a certain dosage, ultimately, the mindset is master.

tseuq
 
I also find lower doses valuable. In line with what Orion said, great for creative inspiration (drawing/making music). I understand what people are saying regarding that in-between state, but that feeling isn't all encompassing for me.
 
We might be suffering from an incomplete definition of "low doses". If we define "low doses" as "not heroic" doses, then of course they are enjoyable. I rarely drop "heroic" (more like "idiotic" ) doses of anything.

My experience with the mushroom dose continuum (rough dosages based on my own, rather low tolerance and dried cubensis of the somewhat stronger kind):

0..0.1g - No perceptible effect. Potential microdosing territory.
0.1..0.75g - Inbetween limbo state. Feelings of being energized, focused attention, a feeling of being lost, gripping anxiety, quick and often unpleasant emotional changes.
0.75..1.75g - Low recreational dose. Mild open eye visuals, sometimes vivid CEVs and vivid visuals in darkness. Shamanic mindset, a sense of spirit in non-sentient things. A sense of connection and emotional elevation.
1.75..3.5g - Trip dose. Heavy open eye visuals, full-on CEVs, loss of sense of location and dreamlike dissolution of self. Changed body perception. Photos and pictures may seem alive and 3 dimensional. A sense of deep interconnectedness, an emotional connection to souls far away in space and time, and a feeling of observing my human life from above, a perspective beyond location and beyond individual lifetimes.
3.5g..6g - Heavy dose. Reality is stripped away. Full distortion of body image. Potential ego death. Experiences of many-dimensional space.
6g.. - Heroic dose. Everything a heavy dose has and more (or in some sense less). I have only done it once, let's not talk about it right now. :D

If we mean the low recreational dose, then yes, it's a great place of creativity. The inbetween dose below that, however, is not something I'd ever intentionally aim for.
 
It seems there's actually a large following of those interested in micro-dose levels of known psychedelic compounds...

Experimental evidence of psychedelic cognitive enhancement comes from studies of practical problem solving, abstract concepts, and psychotherapy.

A significant instance of problem solving resulted in a Nobel Prize for Kary Mullis. Until the invention of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR), a common problem in biology was that biological samples were often too small to analyze, but Mullis solved that and won a Nobel Prize. He described how LSD aided him in doing so.

"PCR's another place where I was down there with the molecules when I discovered it and I wasn't stoned on LSD, but my mind by then had learned how to get down there. I could sit on a DNA molecule and watch the [indistinct] go by. . . . I've learned that partially I would think, and this is again my opinion, through psychedelic drugs . . . if I had not taken LSD ever would I have still been in PCR? I don't know, I doubt it, I seriously doubt it." (Mullis 1998; "Horizon: Psychedelic Science" 1997)

From the point of view of psychedelic cognitive studies, Mullis's example is noteworthy because he did not have his insight while taking psychedelics but instead used psychedelics to increase his ability to visualize, then transferred that cognitive skill back to his ordinary mindbody state. This confirms the idea that some skills learned in one state can be transferred to another. Transference and nontransference between mindbody states is itself a cognitive process that deserves study — learning to remember dreams, for example. Learning to increase this flow, if it is possible, would increase access to stores of information and possibly to new cognitive skills.

Unlike Mullis's experience of transferring a skill back to his ordinary state, most instances of psychedelic problem solving occur while the person's cognitive processes are psychedelically augmented. This is most clearly illustrated by "Psychedelic Agents in Creative Problem Solving: A Pilot Study," by Willis Harman, a professor of engineering economic systems, and a team of researchers at Stanford Research Institute. Working with twenty-seven men who were "engaged in various professional occupations, i.e., engineers, physicists, mathematicians, architects, a furniture designer, and a commercial artist and had a total of 44 professional problems they wanted to work on," the Stanford Research Institute team divided them into groups of three or four and gave them 200 milligrams of mescaline, followed by a quiet period of listening to music. Then they had snacks and discussed their problems with their group. Following this they spent three or four hours working alone on their problems. As a result of psychedelic enhancement, the practical results were impressive.
realitysandwich.com

How Psychedelics Enhance Cognition, Boost Intelligence, and Expand Cognitive Studies | Reality Sandwich

Society benefits from intellectual work. If chemicals make that work more efficient, insightful, and creative, isn't it a professional duty for intellectuals to work as well as they can by using chemical cognitive enhancers?
realitysandwich.com realitysandwich.com
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Microdoses of mescaline in the study above appear to have enhanced cognitive functioning and problem solving abilities related to these professionals work.

I think microdoses of psychedelic compounds may possess nootropic and therapeutic value, and I feel research needs to be conducted in the area.

Again, I fully agree with the terence McKenna quote from my earlier post, however I'm also fascinated to.see what benefits may be achievable through this method of consuming these molecules.

I've been particularly fascinated by the medicinal and therapeutic benefits of "micro", sub-psychoactive doses of 2,5-dimethoxy-4-iodo-alpha-methyl-phenethylamine (DOI)* discovered by Charles Nichols (son of David E. Nichols)

Tania: Switching gears to the Iodo compounds, like DOI, did you mention that these are anti-inflammatory?

Dave: Yeah, that's very weird.

Tania: Some guy called in to Sasha's office, saying that he had rheumatoid arthritis, and he took 2C-I, and for two weeks he was pain-free. Which makes me wonder about medical applications for the Iodo compounds...

Dave: My son Chuck discovered that accidentally. He's an associate professor at Louisiana State University in New Orleans. He wanted to work with 5-HT2 agonists, because he's looking at serotonin receptors in Drosophila, and doing translational stuff into rats. He asked, "Is there a 5-HT2A agonist that's not a controlled substance that I can use?" Since DOI was not controlled, I sent him the isomers of DOI.

His team had been using rat aortic epithelial cells--cells from the inside of a rat's blood vessels--and looking at models of atherosclerosis. The model they'd been using was to take these cells, and put in TNF-alpha (tumor necrosis factor-alpha), a pro-inflammatory substance. If you've seen the advertisements for Enbrel, for arthritis, drugs such as that block TNF-alpha receptors, so they block the pain. What they would do is put TNF-alpha directly into these cells and then they would look at what effect occurred in combination with other compounds--there were four or five compounds that they were looking at.

So his post-doc had some of those cells that were grown up and could be used, and he asked my son, "What if I run a test with one of our compounds in these?" And Chuck said, "Well, I don't have any anti-inflammatory compounds right now." "What about this DOI here?" Chuck laughed and replied, "That's a hallucinogen. That won't do anything." The post-doc said, "Well, I'm going to have to destroy the cells. Can I just go ahead and test it?" And Chuck said, "Yeah, go ahead." The guy came back a week and a half later and said, "The DOI completely blocked TNF-alpha at 20 picomolar." Which is like unbelievable, right?

Chuck said, "Nah. You made a mistake." So Chuck went in, made up his own fresh solutions, took the cells, ran the experiment, and reproduced the guy's data. He wrote me back and asked, "Is there any precedent for this?" And I said, "No, not that I know of." So he published a paper in J PET; it was the featured paper in the issue it was published in. This has extraordinary potency; there's no anti-inflammatory that has potency like that.

Erowid David Nichols Vault : The End of a Chemistry Era.... Dave Nichols Closes Shop

The End of a Chemistry Era.... Dave Nichols Closes Shop
www.erowid.org
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*citations of confirming research

Tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-α) plays a key role in inflammation, and its production and signaling contribute to many inflammatory related diseases. Recently, we discovered that selective activation of serotonin 5-HT2A receptors with the agonist (R)-DOI produces a super-potent blockade of proinflammatory markers in primary rat aortic smooth muscle cells. Here, we demonstrate that systemic administration of (R)-DOI can block the systemic effects of TNF-α in whole animal, with potent anti-inflammatory effects in the aortic arch and small intestine. This includes blockade of TNF-α-induced expression of pro-inflammatory cell adhesion (Icam-1, Vcam-1), cytokine (Il-6, IL-1b), and chemokine (Mcp-1, Cx3cl1) genes, and expression of VCAM-1 protein in the intestine. Further, systemic (R)-DOI also prevents the TNF-α-induced increase of circulating IL-6. Importantly, utilizing receptor selective antagonists, we have demonstrated that the mechanism underlying the systemic anti-inflammatory effects of (R)-DOI is activation of serotonin 5-HT2A receptors. Our results highlight a powerful new role for the serotonin 5-HT2A receptor in inflammatory processes, and indicate that agonism of serotonin receptors may represent an effective and novel approach to develop powerful small molecule therapeutics for inflammatory diseases and conditions such as atherosclerosis and inflammatory bowel disease. Serotonin 5-HT2A Receptor Activation Blocks TNF-α Mediated Inflammation In Vivo
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Psychedelic drug prevents asthma development in mice
Date:February 9, 2015
Source: Louisiana State University Health Sciences Center
Summary:
Researchers have found that a psychedelic drug, (R)-DOI, prevents the development of allergic asthma in a mouse model. The effects are potent and effective at a concentration 50-100 times less than would influence behavior.

Research led by Charles Nichols, PhD, Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics at the LSU Health New Orleans School of Medicine, has found that a psychedelic drug, (R)-DOI, prevents the development of allergic asthma in a mouse model. The effects are potent and effective at a concentration 50-100 times less than would influence behavior. The research was published in the January 15 issue of the American Journal of Physiology -- Lung Cellular and Molecular Physiology.
www.sciencedaily.com

Psychedelic drug prevents asthma development in mice

Researchers have found that a psychedelic drug, (R)-DOI, prevents the development of allergic asthma in a mouse model. The effects are potent and effective at a concentration 50-100 times less than would influence behavior.
www.sciencedaily.com
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-eg
 
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