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Automated extraction method - is it possible?

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kazoo

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Guys, I am a newbie here and SWIM has absolutely no experience with extractions teks and is very discouraged and nervous about possibly killing themselves by trying these teks(ingesting something poisionious) So the questions is, and since someone I know is in the fabrication business, would it be possible to engineer a system / method that would be automated and reproducible and safe to create the extraction. I.e put the bark / starting product in one side and a series of processes could be performed and the product could come out the other side in a given time period 6,12,24 hours etc...
Forget cost for a minute, can the process be standardized enough so it can be safely and consistently produced. It is a conceptual question, but a serious one. thanks, Kazoo
 
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Sure it's possible. Cost effective, no. Simple to build, no. Realistic for the kitchen chemist, not at all. A task like that would require quite a bit of money (read: at least a couple of thousand USD)

IF one follows the teks outlined in these forums there is very little chance of poisoning. Vinegar is very safe. NaOH is safe to ingest in very, very small quantities (look at a few food wrapers and/or cosmetic products it's in there).

As far as the naphtha, keep exposure to a minimum and make sure you are not smoking spice that has not completly dried out and you should be ok.

Extractions are not like synthesising a chemical and are relativly safe. Use common sense (if you don't have any please follow the teks exactly) and some minor saftey precautions and you should be fine.
 
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Very bad idea, IMO, as well.

Developing such a system or even asking about it could attract you some unwanted attention. And if you ever did develop it, I am sure your "seriousness" would not help your case, and it would definitely look like you were serious about mass production. I am sure they would take you down hard.
 
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thanks guys, the tek info when first looking at it is pretty overwhelming for people who have never done anything like that. I will read the teks and try to find the simnplest method, but since I am unfamiliar with the ingredients and chemicals and overall jargon I am nervous about mistakes. Like I read the thread by The Traveler and it made me realize, I have no idea about what I am trying to do.

It's a shame to read about so many people ingesting rue (along with all its toxicity) straight up, or as a tea, when there's a simple procedure to obtain reasonably pure harmaloids in freebase form, which can then be gelcapped for pharmahuasca, or smoked prior to Dimitri for "fumahuasca."

Since fabrication / engineering is my trade I thought I would ask to see if those skills would be helpful to a process. I thought it would be a great side project that would be fun to make. Some of the machines we make are very advanced multistep processes that are robotic, use heat, pressure etc.. so I thought, how hard could something like this really be - relatively speaking.
Regarding someone coming down on a machine, well the machine could potentially be used to extract essential oils, herbal extracts, phytochemicals or other medicines from other plants, it could potentially be a very useful product and help alot of people in other ways. In doesn't have to be purpose built for 1 type of extraction, it could be flexible for other methods. Just like a head shop sells bongs, rolling paper and pipes for tobacco use only.
Well anyway, I was just asking since it is my line of work and was a knee jerk reaction to seeing the complexity of the teks (more b/c I am nervous and unfamiliar than anything else) and my occupation which is to simplify and automate tasks for volume manufacturing processes. Small projects like this are always fun because their personal projects not corporate.
Overall, the website is amazing and so much amazing information, who ever started this did a great job. Thanks for the input.
 
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I would trust myself to do an extraction than try and build a machine to do it for me. If you don't understand the extraction how can you build a machine to do it for you?

You are right though, an A/B machine would be useful for legal herbals as well, so as long as it was not a method for mass producing drugs you would probably be ok on that end.

No worries though! Keep reading and try it out for youself if you want. It really looks a lot more complex than it really is.
 
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Acolon, thanks for the support and answers.
I am reading the teks here and saw a post by quantumbrio but could not find his new "quantumtek" not the "quantum tantra tek" anywhere, I have all the teks in a word doc and am trying to make sense of it all:

he says the following What is the best DMT extraction tek in your opinion? - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Noman wrote:
Depends.
STB if you don't want to take days and have a relatively small quantity of bark to process and A/B for large quantities where an extra few percent of yield would be a significant amount worth the extra time.
Having tried both teks many times,Edgar believes that there isn't much ,if any,difference in the yield using STB or A/B.Actually he yielded slightly more with the STB,but on the other hand it was more yellowish than the A/B, so with the losses after an ammonia wash and re-xing a few times,it works out to the same thing.Even in terms of time efficiency,the time you save by not doing the acidic crock-pot thing is lost later in cleaning it up.Again same fucking shit.So the question now is "which is more fun to do? the acidic crock-pot thing or the re-xing and cleaning it up?Edgar likes both teks equally so he does whichever one of the two he feels up to doing at that moment.Sometimes he "heads or tales" a coin to decide.It's all good. In the end you end up in hyperspace,whatever tek you chose. so what the fuck,do what works for you and enjoy the spice.
And by the way Noman you don't need days to do an A/B extraction.Check out my 7 hour from rootbark to smokeable spice tek now called the quantumtek .not to be confused with the quantum tantra tek .YOU DO NOT NEED DAYS TO DO THE JOB.The minuscule, negligeable amount more that you will get ain't worth the time.Bet you the one month tek will yield less spice than I can exctract in 7-9 hours.

There is another site below that says there is an easier method called the lazy man's guide to MHRB extraction: You can see how a newbie can get confuseed. Huge learning curve!! Thanks for the support acolon!! I'll get it figured out in the next few weeks.

entheogen.com
The Lazy Mans Guide to Extracting Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark by Vortex A report and guide for a new way of extracting MHRB

Extraction Time: 1 gm in 2.5 hrs, 4 gm in 7 hr, 7.5 g total @48 hrs

Equipment: 5 Litre ceramic mixing bowl, Potato masher, 2000 ml measuring cup, Large flat glass baking pan, Fan, VM&P Naphtha; hardware store, NaOH sodium hydroxide; online auction, often listed as Red Devil Lye.

Foreword:

This process is much simpler than all of the other DMT extraction teks for Mimosa hostilis root bark. All you need to do is throw pieces of root bark into water which has had a measured amount of NaOH/sodium hydroxide dissolved into it, wait an hour, add naphtha, stir for a few minutes and then pour the naphtha off into a collection container for evaporation. In essence that is all there is to this tek. No need to fuss with acidifying the root bark for a defat, no pH papers needed, no separatory funnel, nothing fancy yet this is a very effective technique with higher yields than any other method out there yet.
 
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There has been quite a bit of debate over the STB vs A/B teks.

Go with what you are comfortable with. STB is a simpler tek, but results in dirty crystals unless you clean them up with a recrystalization and/or a wash. A/B takes more effort but requires little to no clean up at the end. Either way, even without clean up both will work and result in spice crystals.

Red Devil lye is no longer around (at least I haven't seen it in years). Roebic's from Lowes is pretty much it in my area. Also ebay carries it and can be found in soap making websites.

Feel free to ask any questions once you get started.

The Marsfold Tek is a standard that has been proven over and over (A/B). Also Norman's Tek is quite good (STB).
 
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kazoo, perhaps what you're talking about is an SFE.. supercritical fluid extractor; these typically use liquid CO2 or other inert gases, to extract essential oils and whatnot. but for extracting DMT, as has already been mentioned, it really isn't practical or cost efficient.

swim just got done with an a/b extraction.
swiy oughtta invest in a pH meter, it's swiy's best friend when doing
these things.
 
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Thanks Benzyme,
I was really imagining a process where root / powdered root would go into a series of dilutions and processes , heating and cooling and cleaning / removal of naptha etc... that was somehow automated and done in series with intelligent processes / measurements. We have made systems that have done heating, cooling, forming etc.. in an assembly line manner that would complete a product.
Since I am new to this but have other knowledge elsewhere, I envisioned a box 3 feet by 3 feet with an ascending carosuel that would be able to move a product that was being extracted (whatever that would be: herbal, a medicine from a plant, essential oils etc..) through different stations for dilution, heating, cooling, evaporation etc... Since I am an engineer I immediately thought about how to standardize the process so it was reliable, safe and reproducible. Unfortunately I do not know enough about the process to make intelligent assumptions at this point, but the concept definitely seems to be reasonable because there are a fixed # of steps and processes and you are looking for certain things to happen at each step. The entiree process could always be repeated or any combination of steps repeated if need be.
The concept would be that the extraction device could be programmed to do many different steps depending upon the starting product, If the the carosuel was configured properly, think three levels for now and and divided into thirds their would be 3 different stations at each level. A heating section, cooling section and room tempature section and different things could be added or removed at each section. Not as hard as people would think when you are familiar with technology that could do this. I figured the first one might cost 5K to develop and work out the bugs, but then they could be made relatively cheaply under 1K USD and be used for many different extractions for herbs, essential oils, medicines etc... It could be a really neat useful product.

I will keep reading the other teks to get started, but the idea of a little unit could be helpful in the context of literally having the ability to make your own medicine cabinet.
Maybe it can be a project in the future, I will have to learn more about extracting things from plants, but like I said in an earlier post, this would be a personal project so my spare time would go into it and it may be something that is really worthwhile and valuable if done right, for many different processes, not just a tek for DMT.

PS, I will look up the SFE to learn a little more about that. It sounds like an industrial process. Have a great weekend.
 
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kazoo said:
Thanks Benzyme,
I was really imagining a process where root / powdered root would go into a series of dilutions and processes , heating and cooling and cleaning / removal of naptha etc... that was somehow automated and done in series with intelligent processes / measurements. We have made systems that have done heating, cooling, forming etc.. in an assembly line manner that would complete a product.
Since I am new to this but have other knowledge elsewhere, I envisioned a box 3 feet by 3 feet with an ascending carosuel that would be able to move a product that was being extracted (whatever that would be: herbal, a medicine from a plant, essential oils etc..) through different stations for dilution, heating, cooling, evaporation etc... Since I am an engineer I immediately thought about how to standardize the process so it was reliable, safe and reproducible. Unfortunately I do not know enough about the process to make intelligent assumptions at this point, but the concept definitely seems to be reasonable because there are a fixed # of steps and processes and you are looking for certain things to happen at each step. The entiree process could always be repeated or any combination of steps repeated if need be.
The concept would be that the extraction device could be programmed to do many different steps depending upon the starting product, If the the carosuel was configured properly, think three levels for now and and divided into thirds their would be 3 different stations at each level. A heating section, cooling section and room tempature section and different things could be added or removed at each section. Not as hard as people would think when you are familiar with technology that could do this. I figured the first one might cost 5K to develop and work out the bugs, but then they could be made relatively cheaply under 1K USD and be used for many different extractions for herbs, essential oils, medicines etc... It could be a really neat useful product.

I will keep reading the other teks to get started, but the idea of a little unit could be helpful in the context of literally having the ability to make your own medicine cabinet.
Maybe it can be a project in the future, I will have to learn more about extracting things from plants, but like I said in an earlier post, this would be a personal project so my spare time would go into it and it may be something that is really worthwhile and valuable if done right, for many different processes, not just a tek for DMT.

PS, I will look up the SFE to learn a little more about that. It sounds like an industrial process. Have a great weekend.
Click to expand...

check this one out too http://www.chromatography-online.or...tion-Practices/Solvent-Extraction-Solids.html

if you're concerned about the use of toxic solvents, definitely look into an SFE apparatus. If I had the resources ($$), I'd get a small sfe (about the size of a gas chromatograph). the advantages are 20 minute extractions vs. hours, and eliminating the use of potentially toxic organic solvents. SFEs are immensely versatile for extraction of lipids, proteins, plant alkaloids, and aromatics.
the carousel setup you speak of sounds similar to an autosampler, essential for reproduceability in analysis applications. note the pic at the bottom of this site, though I believe that's an autosampler for hplc. there are also liquid-handling autosamplers
 
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Yes,
that's exactly what I was thinking of, I'll research it a little more. I have an interest in doing other plant / medicinal and aromatic extractions as well. I wanted a system that would make it more standardized and flexible. Thanks for the help Benzyme.
One of the manufacturer websites for example has different processes and technology do do things differently.
This would be interesting to see if a budget version of this stuff could be made. Check out this website below and let me know what you think.
They have http://www.appliedseparations.com/pse/fast_PSE/default.asp

1)Pressurized Solvent Extraction (fast PSE)

fast PSE has been developed in order to take the accelerated solvent extraction process one step further. fast PSE parallel extractions provide fast and efficient solvent extractions with minimal solvent waste - 6 times faster than serial extractors.

They use different technologies for different extractions: http://www.appliedseparations.com/Applications/
However, that fast pse is a 50K plus machine!!

I will continue to research this and let you know what I come up with. Still looking at the teks sections as well to get an understanding of the basics. Thanks:
 
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kazoo said:
Yes,
that's exactly what I was thinking of, I'll research it a little more. I have an interest in doing other plant / medicinal and aromatic extractions as well. I wanted a system that would make it more standardized and flexible. Thanks for the help Benzyme.
One of the manufacturer websites for example has different processes and technology do do things differently.
This would be interesting to see if a budget version of this stuff could be made. Check out this website below and let me know what you think.
They have http://www.appliedseparations.com/pse/fast_PSE/default.asp

1)Pressurized Solvent Extraction (fast PSE)

fast PSE has been developed in order to take the accelerated solvent extraction process one step further. fast PSE parallel extractions provide fast and efficient solvent extractions with minimal solvent waste - 6 times faster than serial extractors.

They use different technologies for different extractions: http://www.appliedseparations.com/Applications/
However, that fast pse is a 50K plus machine!!

I will continue to research this and let you know what I come up with. Still looking at the teks sections as well to get an understanding of the basics. Thanks:
Click to expand...

yeah, that bad boy is nice. perfect for a serious essential oil business.

50K+ ? ouch.
that's like the price of a Thermo-Finnigan LCQ (LC-MS), or a BMW.

here are a couple of SFEs on the 'bay http://business.search.ebay.com/sup...fZC11QQfromZR40QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ32QQsacatZ11815
check out www.labx.com too
 
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