Ayahuasca and Shamanic Admixtures

[Angel_Above]

I am planning on going to South America to visit a shaman and do ayahuasca. The shaman I plan to work with adds Toe (Brugmansia suaveolens), mapacho (Nicotiana rustica), and chiri sanango into the Ayahuasca mixture and it was a bit off-setting for me, being a science fanatic lol. I have never worked with ayahuasca, though I have smoked DMT with caapi (1x and 10x) and had amazing results listening to a shamanic icaro. Due to this, I wish to travel to the Amazon to get an experience with a shaman.

I am concerned about those admixtures, though.

Are any of these harmful if taken with an MAOI?

Also, if using the vine or syrian rue for a home mixture, how strictly is the ayahuasca diet to be enforced for health concerns? I have read that some people don't even follow it (minus drugs) and some even take it with drugs (caffeine, cigarettes etc).

By the way, can I smoke cigarettes (American) on ayahausca?

Peace and love

 

[Entropymancer]

How much do you trust the shaman?

Toe and chiri-sanango are both pretty serious juju. Things to be very cautious about experimenting with even if you know exactly what dose you're taking. Brugmansia sauveolens contains a wide variety of tropane delerients. Brunfelsia grandiflora contains scopoletin (a coumarin) and brunfelsamidine (a convulsant); Jonathan Ott believes his own experimentation with the plant nearly killed him. The mapacho is less likely to be an issue, but depending on how much is added and what sort of tolerance you have to nicotine, it could make you fairly ill.

If someone else prepared a brew for me with those ingredients, I would only take it if I truly trusted that individual with my life.

 

[christian]

I am planning on going to South America to visit a shaman and do ayahuasca. The shaman I plan to work with adds Toe (Brugmansia suaveolens), mapacho (Nicotiana rustica), and chiri sanango into the Ayahuasca mixture and it was a bit off-setting for me, being a science fanatic lol. I have never worked with ayahuasca, though I have smoked DMT with caapi (1x and 10x) and had amazing results listening to a shamanic icaro. Due to this, I wish to travel to the Amazon to get an experience with a shaman.

I am concerned about those admixtures, though.

Are any of these harmful if taken with an MAOI?

Also, if using the vine or syrian rue for a home mixture, how strictly is the ayahuasca diet to be enforced for health concerns? I have read that some people don't even follow it (minus drugs) and some even take it with drugs (caffeine, cigarettes etc).

By the way, can I smoke cigarettes (American) on ayahausca?

Peace and love

--Be VERY careful with these admixtures, and perhaps do not try them. I say this because i read that some french tourists died after doing Ayahuasca in Colombia that had Mapacho in it. They died of a Nicotine overdose. Be aware that even smoking Mapacho is considered risky, because it's nicotine levels are very high.

-Do not even CONSIDER this untill you have some previous Ayahuasca experience and know what you are doing.

-Do make sure that you follow the safety guidelines. This is imperative For your own safety.

 

[Angel_Above]

I wanted my first experience to be under that of a shaman.

I have been smoking cigarettes for almost 3-4 years so a nicotine overdose isn't too scary (Though if I decide to do a solo ayahuasca journey, I will NOT smoke them if you guys say not to).

And I don't know if I trust him with my life... I have been e-mailing him for a few days now and have been looking into him for much longer than that. I watched a documentary on him as well. But shit, I hardly trust myself with my own life lol, I don't see how I can be known to trust some shaman with my life that I haven't met yet, regardless of anything else?

 

[blue lunar night]

i think you need to do much more research into the amazonian shamanic milieu...

listening to an icaro on dmt is not quite sufficient preparation for an undertaking of this kind...

i spent a month in the peruvian amazon... it can be a very raw place...

the practice of brujeria or black magick is very real, & by some estimates, aya is used equally as much, if not more for sorcery than for healing.

michael taussig's 'shamanism, colonialism, & the wild man' is higher-level reading, but will teach you much about the often rather fucked-up historical & socio-cultural context in which you intend to immerse yourself.

that you are even considering drinking with a shaman who adds tobacco AND toe AND chiric sanango sets off some major alarms... a first-timer should not touch that brew with a ten-foot pole...
sounds like a big ol' cup of insanity to me, & not the good kind...
caapi & chacruna are already plenty sufficient to blow your head off !

there are many many shamans to choose from, with a vast diversity of styles, skill levels, & intentions. from cut-throat con-artists to enlightened jedi-masters. & everything in between.

you would do well to demolish all traces of naivete or idealized expectations now, or you may be in for a very rude awakening later...

 

[endlessness]

As he said ^

 

[Angel_Above]

What do you feel about Ron Wheelock?

And I understand where are you are coming from and I appreciate the concern. I sent him an e-mail asking some questions, as his website claims he only adds chapilonga and the vine so that might have been something he said in this documentary alone.

I understand I know very little which is why I came here
I have no way of preparing the ayahuasca around here really, since I live with my parents. I could potentially make some with a friend (he has 1 gram of DMT and I have 215 grams of mimosa bark) at his house, but then he would want to join and I just don't see him on the same level as me with psychedelics. Not to say I'm better than him or ANYTHING like that, I just mean I see them more spiritually than he does and he is the closest candidate for a tripping partner.

 

[christian]

Absolutely DO NOT compare smoking cigarettes as preparation for Mapacho in Ayahuasca. We are talking about toxic levels of nicotine that can, and indeed have killed.

-Regular cigarettes are a joke compared to mapacho!:shock:

 

[Angel_Above]

My mistake...

If anyone has any information on Ron Wheelock let me know...

 

[Agave]

Angel, I have heard nothing but very good things about Ron Wheelock, also that he makes a pretty potent brew. His name pops up every now and then at ayahuasca.com so you might check over there. Best of luck.

 

[jamie]

yes I have heard lots about him over the years as well..he seems to be quite well respected and one of the other centers I remember reading about uses only his ayahuasca as well as they found it to be the most potent ayahuasca around. I have never read anything bad about him on the aya forums. I have never been to the amazon though so take what I say with a grain of salt..

In reguards to both smoking and brewing with mapacho..I always brew with mapacho..but very very small ammounts. I also occasionally will take a puff here and there durring a ceremony..not too much as I am not a regular smoker at all and have no tolerance. Minxx, who wont touch a pipe of mapacho with a 10 foot pole and has never ever smoked tobacco still drinks the ayahuasca I brew. I just asked her what she thinks and she said "strong"..but I also add a bit of chaliponga to the brew and then we brew mimosa seperate. So she said she cant tell if it is the mapacho or the chaliponga I add..but she definatily does not feel like it is toxic or dangerous at all..so dosage is important here..I use a pinch in a whole kilo of vine..other shamans might be adding a handful for all I know so be aware of that.

I dont use tropane bearing plants in my brews so I wont even comment on that other than to say be very careful.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Fwiw, I don't touch tobacco, save for mapacho...it can be a wondrous addition to a trip, especially as a cannabis substitute (on say, mushrooms).

It's great on ayahuasca, mushrooms, cactus and in spliffs. I don't find that I need to use much, but it's not like smoking a mapacho cigarette is going to kill you. Granted, if you were to smoke two in a row and are not a smoker you will definitely get some nicotine sickness (been there, done that ).

 

[Apoc]

In reguards to both smoking and brewing with mapacho..I always brew with mapacho..but very very small ammounts. I also occasionally will take a puff here and there durring a ceremony.

Interesting. What effect does this mapacho have on ayahuasca? Are there any other little spices you add to your psychedelic soup? A pinch of melatonin?

 

[jamie]

The mapacho makes it slightly more emetic I am sure..but I dont really get too sick even with the ammount I add..I am sure it makes me more anti-parasitic. Nicotine helps to sort of stabalize ones thoughts when they are loosing it in the middle of a heavy peak..

I also add a bit of cats claw to my brews..

 

[christian]

DDDDD...Don't try 2 run b4 you can walk, boyo.......-----______////=====~: :!: :?: :d 8)

 

[Angel_Above]

This is from Ron: "I haven't used toe for about 3 years or more now. I was having spells where I would
forget what I was doing. So I asked aya what is happening and she showed me toe very
clear and said not to use it anymore. I make much aya with just aya and chalipanga
(huambisa), but in what I like to drink is these 2 plus cheri sanango, flowers of
bobinsana (when available) and mapacho but this is not much."

And I usually post with the intention of doing the substance, but this was an exception. I don't have the money to fly around the world just yet! So I want to learn as much as possible about these plants, and POSSIBLY work with them without a shaman. Chances are I may, but the cook time is a bit off-setting.

 

[Apoc]

The mapacho makes it slightly more emetic I am sure..but I dont really get too sick even with the ammount I add..I am sure it makes me more anti-parasitic. Nicotine helps to sort of stabalize ones thoughts when they are loosing it in the middle of a heavy peak..

I also add a bit of cats claw to my brews..

Cool, cool. Is the cat's claw just to reduce nausea or does it do something else? Interesting you say nicotine will stabilize thoughts. I have never tried nicotine, but I figured it would increase thought rate. I heard a podcast on nootropics in which a guy swears that wearing a nicotine patch before going to sleep is the greatest method ever for epic dreaming. But of course, I think for someone like me who doesn't sleep well, it would be impossible to sleep with nicotine.

Just wondering have you tried dream root kirkii yet? I wonder if that would go well if ayahuasca. I haven't tried it myself, I don't know if it has any effect on waking state. I have tried Silene Capensis several times, and as little as 250mg has a pretty nice visionary effect. A couple grams has visionary effects on par with the harmalas, but with no body load. You may want to give silene capensis a whirl.

 

[prottel]

Hi Angel_Above.

I am planning on going to Ron Wheelocks place sometime after new year and do a dieta.
I'd love to hear about your experiences with him after you have been there.

 

[BecometheOther]

Chances are you may try, but the cook time is offsetting??

Whaitaminunte what????

When getting into these things the last thing you should be concerned about is a few hours of cook time. Am i understanding you right? the cook time is what you are tedious about?

Brewing is a relaxing and enjoyable experience, and if done correctly is a nice preview/ get to know eachother time for you and the plants.

This stuff takes dedication, and strength. If you are not dedicated enough to spend a few hours brewing, ayahuasca may not be the right path. Sorry i hope i did not misunderstand your post, and i do wish you luck in your endevours, just pointing out that being put off by the brew time is a little ridiculous.

 

[Angel_Above]

The cook time meaning my PARENTS lol. I don't have a house to cook for 9 hours in THEIR house, you know? I still go to a university and have a job, but nowhere NEAR enough funds to live on my own just yet and I'm not going to risk it with them. Maybe one day if they're gone for a few hours... but 9 is too much to even play with the option at this point.

I'm actually looking forward to a relaxing day of singing and humming and focusing on intentions going into the mixture as I brew it!

I might be able to make them at my friend's house, but he doesn't see the plants in the same regard as I do, and I don't know if he's a good trip buddy, plus he wants to invite like 5 people to it and I'd rather practice brewing a few times before starting a brew of 50 grams or whatnot.