Ayahuasca experience log - input greatly appreciated

[olympus mon]

Reading your effects from the second attempt Id have to disagree with some advice you got here. The effects your describing are classic harmalas intoxication and proper MAO-I. Ie; stoned feeling, light tracers, off balanced/wobbly, heavy feeling. Plus 100g with sediment is a very solid dose.
soooo...
This makes me wonder about your mimosa. Although 5g is a strong dose it matters quite a bit whether or not its inner or outer root bark.

Inner root bark 5g could be even too high a dose but outer root bark 15g may be light. Its hard to say what you have unless you have done an extraction from the mhrb and know the content percentage or can ask the vendor you got it from but to me it sounds like you do not have the much more potent inner root bark.

100g caapi vine brewed correctly + your classic description of strong haramala effects but no blast off. To me = a problem on the dmt side of things.

Do you have extracted dmt to work with? If so I would simply repeat your caapi dose and dissolve 100-200mg dmt freebase in lemon juice and drink that with your ayahuasca.

There have been lots of debates over drinking separately vine and dmt but that would never be why you didnt have a breakthrough if everything was squared away. If that was the case then nobody would be blasting of in traditional ceremonies. Spacing our your dmt and vine cant hurt but isnt the most important thing.

 

[corto]

Reading your effects from the second attempt Id have to disagree with some advice you got here. The effects your describing are classic harmalas intoxication and proper MAO-I. Ie; stoned feeling, light tracers, off balanced/wobbly, heavy feeling. Plus 100g with sediment is a very solid dose.
soooo...
This makes me wonder about your mimosa. Although 5g is a strong dose it matters quite a bit whether or not its inner or outer root bark.

Inner root bark 5g could be even too high a dose but outer root bark 15g may be light. Its hard to say what you have unless you have done an extraction from the mhrb and know the content percentage or can ask the vendor you got it from but to me it sounds like you do not have the much more potent inner root bark.

100g caapi vine brewed correctly + your classic description of strong haramala effects but no blast off. To me = a problem on the dmt side of things.

Do you have extracted dmt to work with? If so I would simply repeat your caapi dose and dissolve 100-200mg dmt freebase in lemon juice and drink that with your ayahuasca.

There have been lots of debates over drinking separately vine and dmt but that would never be why you didnt have a breakthrough if everything was squared away. If that was the case then nobody would be blasting of in traditional ceremonies. Spacing our your dmt and vine cant hurt but isnt the most important thing.

Hello! I'm honored that you post on this thread, I've learned much from your posts here. I trust your advice already. Thankyou.

It's great to know that the effects I got were expected from the caapi. It was my intuition that the caapi was working as it should, and I would also not take more than 100g - that was plenty. I don't want to become incapacitated from caapi.

The jurema was listed as 'Brazillian purple-pink, finely shredded'. What I would like to avoid (rather obviously) is another strong caapi experience but no 'blast off'. So I'm wondering - do I just double/triple the jurema next time, or better to get some inner root bark from somewhere and do a fresh brew. The latter option sounds better, instinctively. I don't really want to be working with inferior ingredients.

I don't have any extracted DMT (assuming I even know what that means - like, DMT powder AKA 'spice'?), I'm a complete beginner with this stuff and extraction teks look quite complicated at this juncture!

Once again, thanks for you interest, and I look forward to hearing anything else you have to say.

 

[olympus mon]

You are very welcome. I get a lot of joy helping others on their path to healing and understanding.
Im glad you mentioned it was shredded bark because that makes a big difference in potency. Surface area is very important and shredded has much less surface area than powdered bark.

I would try this. Brew up a larger than needed batch of mimosa tea and set it aside. Maybe 50 grams total and reduce it down so that a 1 oz shot equals 5g's of Juerema tea. You could do 10g pershot but maybe its best to go slow so you don't get to strong of a dose as you find your sweet spot. Its not un common for people to need 15g shredded mimosa tea in their ayahuasca but work up slowly to avoid overly strong experiences. 5g's at a time is good or use your intuition and maybe even redose with a half ounce if your right on the edge of perfect.

Drink and brew your caapi the same as before and start with 10g mimosa about 20min after you drink the caapi. You should be feeling the effects of the dmt within 60 min after drinking your caapi. If the effects are still to mild drink another 5g- 1 ounce shot and again wait to see how that effects you. Maybe 15-30 min tops. When your are fully inhibited, oral dmt comes on rather quickly so repeat until you can tell your coming up on the dmt side of things.

If you exceed 2 hours while finding your sweet spot with the mimosa you may consider also drinking a bit more caapi to keep your mao-inhibition up. You don't want to loose inhibition as you're re dosing because it will confuse matters. Have some extra caapi tea on hand pre measured around 25g per 1 ounce shot to keep up the inhibition during the process. This will also lengthen the journey.

Once you find your sweet spot for everything dosing for future journey's should be very straight forward. Maybe write it down in case you don't revisit for a couple weeks that way you wont forget and can feel confident you are correctly dosing in the future.

Keep in mind consistency of supplies and batches is very important. If you switch supplies you may need to start over again especially if your mimosa is from a different vendor or batch and or powered not shredded. Mimosa dmt content can vary greatly especially right now as its hard to come by. Remember that powdered inner root bark is MUCH stronger than shredded so when using powdered mhrb start low like 3-5 grams with your caapi tea.

 

[corto]

Ahh... I thought about surface area and tried to get the mimosa finer in a coffee grinder, but it didn't work out too well so I stopped.

So next time get finely ground inner root bark. Good.

I've got 45g (225 ml) of this weak mimosa tea remaining in the fridge, plus 100g of caapi from the same previous caapi brew in the freezer.

So just to echo it back to you, because I sense some possibility of ambiguity in my interpretation:

- Drink 75g caapi
- Wait 20 mins
- Drink 10g jurema
- Wait 60 mins
- If broken through, drink remaining 25g caapi

If not broken through:
- Drink 5g jurema (for 15g total) (no need to drink caapi before, because under 2h mark, still inhibited)
- Wait 40 mins (=2h total)
- If broken through, drink remaining 25g caapi

If not broken through:
- Drink 25g caapi
- Wait 20 mins (for inhibition to pick back up)
- Drink 5g jurema (for 20g total)

I'd be grateful if you could let me know if I've misunderstood something.

I see the general pattern now - after making a new brew, one must undertake a 'sweet spot finding mission' using staggered doses, and one must have enough on-hand to find that spot in one trip. So for instance after this next trip (in 2 weeks from now) I will be out of caapi, so I'll have to go back to 50g and increment from there.

Next time I get supplies I'll get quite a bit more caapi so that I can cook quite a few journey's worth and not have to assess potency each time. And of course inner root bark on the jurema side!

Thanks so much!

 

[corto]

I had a conversation with a friend of a friend who has taken Aya regularly in Peru. I'm recording their side of the conversation for this log, and who knows - it might benefit others.

I don't know much about the technical side [of brewing], but I do know that more than that, the setting and intention are what's important. Its a deep rabbit hole, when you work with aya, and you can really get taken, i even think it can be dangerous because what happens in those ceremonies does shift things permanently. I've experienced this mainly only for good but have gotten into a couple places where i wasn't so sure...

So my first recommendation would be to find a shaman you trust because you can go so much deeper and have a more profound experience with someone guiding your journey. They sing specific songs to help the medicine activate and work in your body, and they hold a space to keep you safe.

If this is not possible... then... the medicine needs to be treated with respect. She is a powerful entity that you can work with and i've found it is really important to acknowledge that.

music helps activate the medicine in your body. You can go very deep in silence too, but I find a combination of both is best. Some websites have free music from ceremonies that can be downloaded.

Intention is very important. Make sure you have a clear intention of what you want to work on.

Protect your space. With prayer, calling in guides, angels, whatever it is that you use. Or if its just asking for divine protection. However it works for you, its important. Can use sage and tobacco also for clearing the space. With all these things intention is the most important because what we believe really creates our reality.

as for amount of medicine, i've had anywhere from 3 cups to 1/3 of a cup and find little correlation to how strong of an experience i have. It really seems to be whatever's needed in the moment. Having said that, a lot of medicine is still more likely to blast you...

about brewing medicine... while brewing it is a time to put a lot of prayer into the medicine. Singing mantras, praying, and having full attention and intention during the whole process. Even just reheating the medicine a lot of prayer goes in to prepare it and it makes a difference

i've learnt to work in the realms and see how to work with people, but if i ever did facilitate it would be very small with deep healing assistance. I don't see working with a large group, and lately my work has been learning to channel all that and work similarly but without ingesting anything... the plants opened the channels and the work is to use them here in real time

i had one ceremony with a different medicine help a month ago and the big message i got was that my medicine is in the present moment...

and if you buy into all this ascension world shifting story... which in a way i see... then before we would always go out to other dimensions and learn, but the works seems to be moving, at least for me, into this dimension and the physical.

but before there was a need for it. now there's no need for anything... but still enjoying the forever exploration, which at times of course includes tea

respect is so important, developing a relationship with the plant
i talk to her all the time. you can as well when you're in there, and you'll find she's quite responsive.

ahhhh... that world is such a beautiful world, it takes down all the boundaries so the experience of everything being connected and one becomes tangible...

i have to say the things i've seen are all true, there's no contradiction, its just the experience of it.. and actually seeing how the universe functions (to a small degree) clearly the mind can't handle all the info!
it is! the unity experiences i had induced with the tea were all different though

one night i was the earth... actually several times, but one night fully... and purging for her all night. showed me though that our bodies and the earth are the same body... which i may have read before, but knowing it is different... and my relationships with everything living have totally shifted because of this.

and the fact that people pollute the earth is the dumbest thing ever, they are hurting themselves... but i guess that is currently what the human condition, the majority of it, is working through

[talking about a recent journey]
so... my body immediately goes into purge mode because that's what i'm used to, although this medicine isn't really about purging...

and i feel all these things in my stomach, very uncomfortable... as i look deeper i see these things and they are old, very old... I look deeper to see what kind of entity it was and it was actually all the structures that make up the personality of 'lea'.
so then i'm wandering through them, and there are many, some nicer, some not nice at all...
kind of like alice in wonderland. but i have no idea what to do with them

i shake some of them loose figuring then at least more will appear in daily life to reveal themselves to be seen... and then they tell me that they feel sad and ignored, that i just want to get rid of them and not acknowledge them. so i spent the next little while sending them love and accepting them... and then the medicine wore off before i could do much more

i tried to go back in, but then was just hearing tons and tons of random voices and seeing plastic images and couldn't get any work done. which i think was a clearing of all that i'd absorbed being back in canada in the energy field here...

SO:
big question was what was i really being shown and what was i supposed to do.
my friend told me that this plant [a north american plant] is a recycler, a composter...
so instead of purging and getting rid of its for transformation
changing what's there, but not rejection and getting rid of...
or even loving and getting rid of...

Then, in a book, which i read that same night by chance, it talks all about how we can recreate our selves, our personality, to be who we want to be, who we are in truth

so now, i feel that the work, and i don't know how exactly, is to go into the structures of myself that remain and rebuild them to be in alignment with what i know to be me.
no idea how

that is the work... to allow [the emotions/reactions] to come, to not feed them, but to let them work themselves out... and slowly they lose power till you don't notice them at all

i have changed so much of my conditioning, lets say dropped so many onion peelings... with the tea

everything has happened so quickly, 5 years ago i was working in [the rat race] with no interest in spirituality

i've done lifetimes worth of psychotherapy in the last 3 years... for myself, ancestral lineages, the collective...

maybe you know this.. but don't fight any of the experience, or it pushes back harder... but if its too much you can ask her to be gentle.. and much of the time it works...
unless its in your best interest for it not to

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

The advice from Olympus and your FOAF are both sound. OM basically broke down what I was telling you earlier... namely that you need to take more light if it isn't working. There are many ways for a seasoned psychonaut to activate as threshold or sub-threshold trip. I call it "tipping the bucket." (moar oral, vaped, or insufflated DMT... as well as a variety of admixture substances)

You keep drinking at decent intervals until that last drop tips the bucket. I don't mind overshooting the mark, as I am very familiar with those realms and have faith in the substances and the spirit of them. But I think a gentle, staggered dose "sweet spot" methodology to find that tipping point is generally ideal. It is the modus operandi for any new substance.

1) Take the absolute smallest dose possible as an "allergy test"
2) Up the dose gradually, perhaps over a number of acclimatizing trips
3) Don't rush, most people are happy to have had some testing the waters before they get :shock:

In this way you can avoid any horror stories, and establish a sincere relationship with the substance(s). Even if you get new batches of material you are familiar with, it is wise to find the potency of the new stuff relative to your normal or older stuff.

As for the experiential advice of your FOAF, working with aya can definitely change you and present you with "lifetimes worth of psychotherapy." The songs of the shaman are known as icaros. And they do have to be heard on aya to see their utter genius. A good shaman can sing, whistle, rattle and thump you into very specific visions that modulate and change precisely according to their intent. Having a good shaman around is a very good and helpful safety net...

Having said that, I don't like to take ayahuasca in groups, and don't find that I need anyone to guide or sit for me. Of course, I have a very long history with entheogens. Also, I prefer to listen to virtuoso guitar music, complex classical pieces, and my favorite "put you in the mood" tunes... and I also make my own tones, icaros and chants as necessary.

I find that clearing the space is very important though, and creating a "holy" high vibration to journey in makes a huge difference. I tend to also blow tobacco smoke over the brew while preparing it. (I don't actually smoke tobacco) And infusing the brew with your intentions and prayers... having a good mantra or whatever are all rather worthy. I sometimes like to play gospel, dhrupad or other "religious" music... even very extreme stuff that I would find cheesy when sober. Nothing chases off dark entities quite like a large black woman belting out her love of G*d. Hehehehe.

Congratulations on being thorough and cautious. These are attributes that go a long way in a psychonaut. I am quite sure that your next experiment will result in a full blown journey and that you will find what you have been seeking.

 

[corto]

Hyperspace Fool! Thanks so much for your continued reading. I have read a lot of posts of yours recently, from different times. So much has been learned! Thanks.

Overshooting the mark *a little* rather than hovering sub-threshold for many trips would be OK by me, but saying that I have no idea what overshoot of Aya feels like, and only dim memories (20 years ago) of overshoot on LSD, ketamine and so on. Of course I remember the details, but they are somewhat cardboard and can't compare to the experience itself.

Anyway, the next trip plan as previously described feels very comforable as a projection, especially as it's been looked over by experts such as yourself.

Regarding group ceremonies, I don't mind either way but I am liking learning how to brew and so on, it appeals to my geeky side. But as with things like meditation/satsang, I have experienced an interesting sense of increased power in a group setting.

There is a place that does group ibogaine (in a foreign country) that I'm having thoughts about travelling to some time, probably in 2014. I can actually get hold of some ibogaine (expensive!), but I don't feel qualified in the slightest to handle it without an expert cook, guide and sitter (AKA shaman!), based on what I've read.

The gospel music - sounds like a pro tip to me, I'll be downloading a few of those for 'in emergency break glass' type situations.

I'm unable to do Aya this weekend due to other obligations, but I did take the remaining 200ml (40g) jurema out of the fridge and decant it for a second time, since a 1mm-thick layer of bottom sediment (plant fats?) had formed over the last 7 days.

I use an airtight jam jar with a rubber sealing ring and clean the whole thing thoroughly with boiling water before putting the jurema in, so I didn't have any top-residue (I read that some people report mold after a week or so).

Oh yes, one last thing - I'm looking at constructing a THP (The Herbal Percolator, as described on this site starting around 2009, I believe). I looked into a soxhelet, but they are too expensive. Again, getting a bit geeky on the equipment side. :lol: Do people still use THPs?

 

[olympus mon]

To touch on what HF said because thats a very good point. Tipping the bucket i like his term.:d
If you feel ready and know thy self in this way you may consider shooting higher than safe.
In ceremony in other lands nobody is there ti find their sweet spot. Everyone new to that ceremony and shamans are more or less rolling the dice. The one thing all have in common is they have decided to accept what is about to happen comfortable or not.

At home aya tends not to follow this method for a couple reason all your living right now. The new person is brewing their own aya. If HF myself or others well aquanted to all facets of this medicines where to serve you our brew it wouldnt be what your going through.

I would simply ask you before hand to meditate on this step nand tell me you are ready. I haven't seen many freak outs. In fact just 2 in a lot of traditional ceremonis. I think there is a reason for this. The people are not caught up in the constant worry while brewing and dosing of "is this too much". They simply accept what is given to them and have their experience.

Often time the next morning people have this "HOLY F'k" smile on their face as we all staggered to breakfast. And I hear a lot of "man, it was really powerful, I felt too powerful for a while but I'm so glad I did it and it was amazing".

If given he opportunity many would probably take the blue pill and pull out if they knew it was there but when that's not even a thought, bail outs or freak outs are niot always the case.

So I ask this to you, if you did have in your possession a verified very strong cup of ayahuasca would you feel ready to drink it?

There is nothing wrong with working up slowly. Its safe and smart but there is something quite beautiful about getting in over your head and making it to shore in tact. After all, because some of us have done this repeatedly and to extreme degrees, that is the experience from which we are able to advise and help others. A stronger than wanted or expected journey is, IMO, what many people actually need and even want, they just don't know it.

This is all my opinion and experience, I find Im never quite fully satisfied unless Im at the edge of too strong leaning over the cliff looking into the abyss. It took me a long time to notice this about myself. I like to have the experience be challenging. Its the same in real life, As a youth I joined the Marine Corp because they were the toughest, I tackle way to big art projects and shows regularly, I do cross fit work outs that nearly kill and break me, I like be in that place of not knowing if I can make it through. Its the exact same in mt psychedelics. I pay for this reguallrly but this is what I feel benefits me the most. So maybe look at your personality, substances aside, and that csn be an indicator if what you would be ok with.

As Im sure you know because its obvious you have done your reading. Nobody ever said this was going to be fun or easy. It often times is but you shold always accept that things are going to get quite weird and intense.

 

[corto]

That's a very good point, the shamen in group settings are rolling the die not just in the sense that one brew might be different from the next in potency, but that each participant may be affected to a totally unknown degree.

I think one of the reasons I've become cautious (this is not the same as worry) is because I'm now using jurema, and I think it may have even been in one of your posts that I read some rather grave sounding warnings about jurema, along with the sentence "people have used the word leash with this plant". Hehe.

I'm definitely not 'worried'. :lol: I don't think to myself 'I hope this isn't going to be too strong', I don't get nervous before/when taking a dose, and so on. I know that it's all for the good, whatever happens. Universe doesn't make mistakes! I trust unconditionally (which means whatever I get is what I needed (even if unpleasant), and I am grateful for the teaching).

I'm definitely ready, haha. Never been readier. It's obvious to me that I'm supposed to go down this rabbit hole, I've been guided here. Yes, I would drink that verified very strong dose of Ayahuasca.

You've made a great post my friend, it's been valuable for me. Equally, I hope you can see that I'm not hesitant or worry-laden, merely cautious (indeed because I've 'done my reading', hehe).

As you allude to, brewing at home does seem likely to be a double edged sword - of course when someone else cooks you just 'down it', whereas at home you have to make all the decisions!

I've been way over my head many times in the past. I've thought I was dead, I've 'gone towards the light' and come back, I've lost motor control and/or my peripheral senses while conscious, I've been depersonalized, I've been in the K-hole... etc. I recognize the "HOLY F'k" grin on the other side.

PS I actually expect weird and intense. That is probably where I imagined my 'sweet spot'. If it's not weird and intense... I'd reckon on being under-dosed!

Once again thankyou for your post. It has certainly helped me break out of the 'procedure oriented' approach and more into a 'down it and receive' frame. I think I got too technical there for a while. That's the geek in me!

 

[corto]

This is all my opinion and experience, I find Im never quite fully satisfied unless Im at the edge of too strong leaning over the cliff looking into the abyss. It took me a long time to notice this about myself. I like to have the experience be challenging. Its the same in real life, As a youth I joined the Marine Corp because they were the toughest, I tackle way to big art projects and shows regularly, I do cross fit work outs that nearly kill and break me, I like be in that place of not knowing if I can make it through. Its the exact same in mt psychedelics. I pay for this reguallrly but this is what I feel benefits me the most. So maybe look at your personality, substances aside, and that csn be an indicator if what you would be ok with.

What interests me about Aya is what teachings it has, and I have no idea at all about what that might be for this body/mind, although of course I've read deep experience reports of others. I know people talk of intent a lot, but I am open to anything.

I've had a 'take it to the maxxx' attitude in a different phase of my life, but not so much now. I'm more laid back, but not fearing much. Interestingly when I did have a 'take it to the maxxx' attitude, I did have a lot more background psychological fear and insecurity. I might say that by loading myself with high risk/intensity/duration situations I was trying to confront my fear, in a weird way. I don't feel the need to 'prove myself' in any way any more - to others or myself.

Anyway, the gist I'm trying to get across here is that I'm not after a macho experience, but I'm not shy of intensity or scared of going deep with consciousness-altering substances.

 

[olympus mon]

You are doing things just fine. You are not being worried at all just going about it in a safe manner which is great.

I just wanted to show a different side of thinking to help take some pressure of. Keep doin what yer doin.:thumb_up:

 

[corto]

Thanks OM. I love it how the next post I read on this forum is this one. :lol:

 

[vineseeker]

Be careful what you ask for dude! 8)

 

[jamie]

"5) The sediment should be nearly devoid of actives. Brewing the stuff should have moved everything into the liquid. Nearly everything anyway."

The sediments that collect at the bottom of a bottle after a few days are always loaded with actives IME..to the extent where if you shake the bottle before you drink it feels like it must be twice as a potent, especially if it is really reduced. I have even heard of one person at ayahuasca forums who was given the sediments from the bottom of the shamans bottle in peru and used it sublingual and had a strong experience similar to vaping.

I think some alkaloids drop out because the bind to tannins maybe.

 

[olympus mon]

There is no question the sediment is highly loaded with actives and drinking it intensifies the experience massively

 

[olympus mon]

I've had a 'take it to the maxxx' attitude in a different phase of my life, but not so much now. I'm more laid back, but not fearing much. I don't feel the need to 'prove myself' in any way any more - to others or myself.

Anyway, the gist I'm trying to get across here is that I'm not after a macho experience, but I'm not shy of intensity or scared of going deep with consciousness-altering substances.

If you feel that what your talking about here is what I am referring to your very far off base. Im not talking about a dick measuring contest or proving myself to anything. A machismo mindset wouldn't last a min in the deep waters.

In life what does a person grow more from the comfortable times or the difficult ones? In what packages does life have more lessons for us? If a person wished to learn patience would a quite serene setting be the best place to practice this or would an aggravating annoying situation offer a better practical application setting?

Rarely does do the fun pretty lights and comfy feelings show us our darkness and blockages. It is in our darkness, our fears, our pain, that freedom remains waiting. To access this it often takes a very strong difficult experience.

 

[corto]

"5) The sediment should be nearly devoid of actives. Brewing the stuff should have moved everything into the liquid. Nearly everything anyway."

The sediments that collect at the bottom of a bottle after a few days are always loaded with actives IME..to the extent where if you shake the bottle before you drink it feels like it must be twice as a potent, especially if it is really reduced. I have even heard of one person at ayahuasca forums who was given the sediments from the bottom of the shamans bottle in peru and used it sublingual and had a strong experience similar to vaping.

I think some alkaloids drop out because the bind to tannins maybe.

Hello jamie! Thanks very much for commenting!

With the caapi and chakruna I've brewed so far, my intuition has told me to keep and drink all the sediments (after reading a mix of opinions about whether the sediment is worth retaining and drinking or not). I'll do the same with the chaliponga I've ordered.

But with the jurema, the impression I gleaned was that it's best to let the sediment settle and then decant because it's nauseating. Could you say whether you think this is the correct approach for jurema?

PS I brew all the ingredients separately at the moment.

 

[corto]

If you feel that what your talking about here is what I am referring to your very far off base. Im not talking about a dick measuring contest or proving myself to anything. A machismo mindset wouldn't last a min in the deep waters.

Yes, I was merely introspecting on my past and present lives (figuratively speaking) based on what you'd said about looking at my own personality. It was not about you in any way.

In life what does a person grow more from the comfortable times or the difficult ones? In what packages does life have more lessons for us? If a person wished to learn patience would a quite serene setting be the best place to practice this or would an aggravating annoying situation offer a better practical application setting?

I agree wholeheartedly, and well put. This is why I don't quit situations that I find challenging (relationships, jobs, etc). The world is a mirror, and I'm grateful for people and situations that show me parts of myself I'd rather avoid.

Rarely does do the fun pretty lights and comfy feelings show us our darkness and blockages. It is in our darkness, our fears, our pain, that freedom remains waiting. To access this it often takes a very strong difficult experience.

Yes, I'm not doing it for 'fun', the aim is 'spiritual' (for want of a better word) in nature. If I was after a 'nice experience' I could take any number of other substance (but I don't and haven't for many years, this includes being a non-drinker)!

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

I just wanted to jump back in and clarify that the sediment quote from me was referring to the sediment in freshly cooked brew... and the chacruna part at that.

There is no question that caapi sediment is still chock full of harmalas... I often powder my vine and just eat it directly. In food or raw. House's Aya pancake recipe was a real fav around here for a while.

But with chacruna, I find that the actives are very quick to migrate into the acidic tea. There may well be some DMT in the leaves, but the vast majority is in the tea as far as I can tell.

Now, if you let that tea sit for any length of time and we're talking about sediment that drops out of the chacruna reduction... you better keep that stuff.

With OM's comment about shaman's bottle sediment, this is especially true as shamanic Aya is basically always both the caapi and the chacruna together.

As for Jurema sediment, it may be nauseating, but it does have some actives in it... also it tends to add that illusive and controversial "jungle spice" tinge to the proceedings.

Most people tend to pound the upper part of their portion and then eventually get squeemish as they get down to the sediment. I find that the thick sludge at the bottom is the gold standard stuff, though... and will pour my doses strong so that I can have some of that sludge to sip on throughout the journey if I find I am not as high as I would like. In the midst of an aya peak, I often have the subjective experience of nearly instant boosts in my high from that. Perhaps the sludgy stuff coats the oral mucosa and enters sublingually. (note: I have no idea if this is the actual case, it just feels that way and would make sense)

Final note... I tend to reduce my aya until it is very thick and syrupy, so sediments "falling out" of my brew are not really an issue. The sediments I referred to were the pulverized leaf which I strain out before reducing.

Just to make it clear.

At any rate corto, you are in good hands here. All of these brothers know their aya.
8)

 

[jamie]

"There is no question that caapi sediment is still chock full of harmalas... I often powder my vine and just eat it directly. In food or raw. House's Aya pancake recipe was a real fav around here for a while."

HF..I love you brother..but that sounds like the most uncomfortable gut wrenching way to do ayahuasca I could never eat an ayahuasca pancake without horrible sickness after.