Ayahuasca or pure spice?

[ohayoco]

Dreamer was using whole root bark, not shredded nor powder, which he cut into little bits himself, and brewed with lemon juice and filtered water. Maybe it was weaker than yours, maybe it didn't get absorbed by his stomach fully, maybe he needs more oral DMT than others, maybe he didn't brew it for long enough to get all the alkaloids, maybe he brewed it a little too hot at one point, or maybe he just likes it stronger... there's so many variables really. The important thing is, the experience was spot on for him personally. If he'd've had a disappointing experience, he may never have bothered again because at the time he had little regard for what back then he only knew of as "legal highs". I think beginners need to find a balance between risking discouraging disappointment, and overdoing it.

People on aya forums say to use minimum 50g ayawaska, and I remember you saying Fractal that you use 25... is it possible that you have a lower threshold for effects from MHRB as well as the vine? I'm just curious, I'm not saying you're wrong.

Hope all this isn't confusing poor PartArctor! Go with what Fractal says

 

[polytrip]

If you take ayahuasca first, you coul ask it whether you should try vaporised DMT and you will get the answer you need. The other way round doesn't work: vaped DMT won't show you what's the right thing to do, at least not with that clarity.

Edit: hey ohayoco, are you guy's in the UK having a vulcanic ash day as well? But it's a beautyfull day isn't it?

 

[endlessness]

Dreamer was using whole root bark, not shredded nor powder, which he cut into little bits himself, and brewed with lemon juice and filtered water. Maybe it was weaker than yours, maybe it didn't get absorbed by his stomach fully, maybe he needs more oral DMT than others, maybe he didn't brew it for long enough to get all the alkaloids, maybe he brewed it a little too hot at one point, or maybe he just likes it stronger... there's so many variables really. The important thing is, the experience was spot on for him personally. If he'd've had a disappointing experience, he may never have bothered again because at the time he had little regard for what back then he only knew of as "legal highs". I think beginners need to find a balance between risking discouraging disappointment, and overdoing it.

People on aya forums say to use minimum 50g ayawaska, and I remember you saying Fractal that you use 25... is it possible that you have a lower threshold for effects from MHRB as well as the vine? I'm just curious, I'm not saying you're wrong.

Hope all this isn't confusing poor PartArctor! Go with what Fractal says

I think fractal is indeed usually sensitive to these plants but in this case I have to agree with him. Im usually quite 'hard-headed' when it comes to psychedelics, also with oral dmt (for example last times with pharma Ive been taking 150mg dmt fumarate which for a lot of ppl would be way too much, for me it was nicely strong, but def not overwhelming).. but with mimosa, I remember having taken 9g and having my ass kicked big time. Most ppl I talk to also feel the same way, dose is definitely always under 10, usually closer to 5

Did you brew it 3x, decanting/filtering each boil and adding fresh water? for how long did you boil? Where was the bark from?

Im asking all this obvious with no intention to 'pressure' you, im just curious about it and specially worried if it was one of these variables, and one day you take same amount but get overwhelmed by the effects.

 

[ohayoco]

Polytrip- yes apparently the ashcloud is back, and it's a lovely sunny day.

Endlessness- Dreamer dug out his experience report that he wrote at the time, in 2008. It says he boiled the MHRB for 20 minutes, I guess that explains it! Sorry

He did another mimosa/rue brew a couple of weeks later with the same amounts and proper technique, but that one was weak due to purging too early (lucky escape?), hence his mistaken view on MHRB potency.

 

[BananaForeskin]

I'm here to umpteenth the suggestion to take ayahuasca first.

Also, to comment on the dosing debate, I went farther than I wanted to on 2g Mimosa (powdered, lightly boiled in lemon for 45 minutes) and 3g rue. It was my first time with spice of any kind, and now I'd do it again or with more but at the time it was a little more than I could handle. ms_manic_minxx knows what she's talking about... read her words carefully.

 

[soulfood]

I always figured vaping first was better, unless you start with a very slight oral dose.

Being trapped in hyperspace is exausting

 

[PartArctor]

Thanks I really apreciate the replys I was swaying towards Ayahuasca a little but the overall response added some clarity. Ayahuasca sounds like it will be a more forfilling learning process as long as I dont over do it the first time which seems perfect for me. Thank you guys.

 

[BananaForeskin]

To respond to soulfood yeah, being trapped in hyperspace is exhausting and vaping would be better if someone wanted to get their feet wet. I think it may be down to a matter of personal preference. I prefer total immersive experiences when being introduced to something I know about, but I know some people prefer to have a slight taste of something new before they really commit to it.

Also, because of being stuck in ayahuasca hyperspace, you really have a lot more time to take it all in and become comfortable with it. As opposed to vaped DMT, in which it's easy to be back on earth 5 minutes later going "What the HELL just happened?". I mean, chances are you'll be saying the same after the ayahuasca, except in the case of the vaping it's more of a "What just happened?" and with the aya more of a "What the...?!?", if you get my meaning.

I think aya is also a good starting point because liftoff is so much more dependable. As a noob, it was tres difficult to successfully vape spice. Aya, on the other hand, is easy to ingest successfully... Drinking isn't as hard as trying not to burn the spice.

 

[ohayoco]

Don't forget that it's possible for a vaped DMT trip to feel like an hour. Concept of time can go out the window. Dreamer has sat someone who had an uncomfortable trip and came out of it thinking it had lasted that long. Some on here have claimed to have lived a whole lifetime in one trip! Dreamer's never had it like that though.

The issue is more the shock of launch than the duration, and the fact that you can't have a mild vaped breakthrough really... it's not far off 'all or nothing' with vaporising.

End of the day, it depends on what you're looking for

 

[Apoc]

In my first ayahuasca experience, I threw up more than I ever thought I could possilby throw up. In my pure dmt experience, I experienced a terrible ecstasy I never thought I could possibly experience. I definitely prefer the latter. And I didn't throw up or come close.

Basically, ayahuasca IS pure jimjam dmt (full spectrum alkaloids), just watered down in a solution with other horrible tasting and severely stomach upsetting plant material. Might as well just do an extraction and forget about the plant material. Extraction is not any more difficult than all the boiling and reducing anyway, once you know what you're doing.

Also, an extraction will make it easier to measure your dose, and you don't have to take it all at one time. Unless you enjoy the ritual or history of ayahuasca, I don't see why anyone would take it. I'm sure if the natives had naphtha or xylene, their ayahuasca would have been freebased as well.

And if you're looking to do oral dmt, which is what I do, simply mix in your dose of freebase with a few drops of vinegar until it dissolves, and it will be dmt-acetate, which is totally non stomach upsetting and acts fast. Freebase dmt on its own upsets the stomach a lot, and is not as active either. Dmt acetate or fumarate kicks ass, but fumarate requires more ingredients. I've never tried fumarate.

Oh yeah, dose small your first time. When I first started, I wanted a HARD trip. What I didn't realize is that even a "small" oral dose of 50mg can give you a trip just as hard. I made the mistake of taking 400mg my first time. You'll probably go vegatative for a while and lose control of your body and mind, aka pass out. It's not fun.

 

[rOm]

You could probably be good trying a full range food safe extraction of mimosa and try vaping a few times and in pharmahuasca style with caapi or harmalas.
You can make a cold extraction of 3 grams mimosa to try it out with caapi to have a feel of hoasca.
Best is probably try it safely and see for yourself.

 

[soulfood]

Either way you're going to have to study to get the most out of your chosen route.

 

[rOm]

I use no acids..I use spring water that I collect from nature.

That is awesome!

Thought I have never tried any form of DMT, I know when I first try it, I want to try it the way the Incas first did, in the form of Ayahuasca. I don't know why, it just seems right that way.

I used to think that way, then I thought I'll wait to go to South America and get introduced....
I'm still waiting to go.
In the meantime, I study a little.

And now Dreamer is still around the same continent, so vaping spice or doing pharmahoasca feels right in the society he's involved currently.

It's all good until you have a good feeling and take your time, Dreamer was waiting for years before going for it.
Fixing up his life and sorting out a few things is really worth the journey afterwards.
But some prefer to jump in the falls at the first sight... There's no rule, just lesson.

 

[scrappy]

Seems like no matter how many of these comparisons I read between Aya and DMT, none of them do that good of a job explaining the difference. I can't comment since I've yet to bother with isolated DMT. I can only comment on Aya.

More on differences between Aya and DMT concerning CEV and OEV would be nice for a change (with duration tacked on as well):

1) CEV (closed eye visuals - ie, you are 'daydreaming' in an intense manner)

2) OEV (open eye visuals - ie you open your eyes and see intense pulsating auras, or if even stronger - the 'daydreaming' has become so intense you think it has become reality and there is virtually no distinction).

Example of a potentially more useful comparison report format to someone who has never experienced substance X (in this example Aya is used).

Aya description:
WHAT the CEV's were like: For me Aya was primarily CEV (imaginations) ...

WHAT the OEV's were like: ...with somewhat weak OEV (pulsating auras around light and tracers that look like bugs on fire flying convincingly across your field of vision. And nausea/vomiting of course, hard to get around.

Aya short Summary:
CEV: Moderate/strong intensity of Duration approx 2-4hrs (note: lost track of time).
OEV: Mild/moderate intensity of approx duration 1-1.5hrs (note: most time was spent with eyes closed in dark with emphasis on experiencing CEV's.


I get sick of reading these subjective descriptions that speak of soul and other verbage. For example a pretty useless report sounds like:

"I did X and I got shot to the moon and met hyperspace Sally eating toadstools with Mars the God of War... it wuz so cuuuullll"


Please Just stick to the basics. Duration and Intensity of CEV and OEV. With some extra notes if more detail can explain the experience better.

I don't care what others think of this post. I'm sure there are many other readers out there frustrated by rambling experience reports that drown out the useful ones.