maranello551
Rising Star
PsyDuckmonkey said:
If you want a guiding presence with dmt, just add it to your psilohuasca, right?
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Ayahuasca vs mushrooms
- Thread starter Sacred Journey
- Start date
If you want a guiding presence with dmt, just add it to your psilohuasca, right?
"About New Age, one needs to understand that New Age itself arguably grew out of the LSD subculture"
It goes way back to Blavatski. The New Age as a thing, far predates LSD. Cannabis, is also nothing new to the west, and has been used and grown by europeans for thousands of years. Cannabis intoxication never came to the west recently, it was always there and there is a long solid unbroken tradition of mysticism in Europe.
It just never went mainstream and cheapened to the degree that we have seen with the new age thing...
Hitler was also heavily into the New Age, as was Crowley.
It goes way back to Blavatski. The New Age as a thing, far predates LSD. Cannabis, is also nothing new to the west, and has been used and grown by europeans for thousands of years. Cannabis intoxication never came to the west recently, it was always there and there is a long solid unbroken tradition of mysticism in Europe.
It just never went mainstream and cheapened to the degree that we have seen with the new age thing...
Hitler was also heavily into the New Age, as was Crowley.
PsyDuckmonkey
witch
I guess we're using words differently. I wouldn't mention Alchemy, Theosophy, Anthroposophy and Magick on the same page as New Age. New Age did borrow from the former, but isn't equal to them - it also borrowed from Hinduism and Buddhism, and yet we don't call Siddhartha Buddha a New Ager.jamie said:
For one, the size and popular effect of the New Age movement was orders of magnitude larger than either Blavatsky or Crowley ever achieved... Also, the core teachings are quite demonstrably different in New Age.
I never even tried to imply that. However, cannabis was already illegal in the West in the 60s, and the pioneers who traveled to India sure did enjoy many a hash pipe there. My impression of this is similar to people traveling to Amsterdam these days to get high.jamie said:
Never said there wasn't. However, New Age is a quite different beast from that tradition. But this really is beginning to warrant its own thread by now.jamie said:
"jamie wrote:
It goes way back to Blavatski. The New Age as a thing, far predates LSD.
...
Hitler was also heavily into the New Age, as was Crowley.
I guess we're using words differently. I wouldn't mention Alchemy, Theosophy, Anthroposophy and Magick on the same page as New Age. New Age did borrow from the former, but isn't equal to them - it also borrowed from Hinduism and Buddhism, and yet we don't call Siddhartha Buddha a New Ager."
But the term new age itself does go back to Blavaski and a few others. The new age is not something that came out of the 1960's. If we are using it to mean that, than we are using a somewhat incorrect version of the term as it was coined within the earlier esoteric movement.
The time of buddha was way before Blavaski, so that comparison is not really relevant to the scope of the discussion from the angle I am approaching it at.
My point, and the only point I wish to make is that the New Age is far older than LSD and most people are not aware of it's early history, which was somewhat more respectable than it's more current incarnation...with a few really shady exceptions such as it's (to me) racist undertones.
It goes way back to Blavatski. The New Age as a thing, far predates LSD.
...
Hitler was also heavily into the New Age, as was Crowley.
I guess we're using words differently. I wouldn't mention Alchemy, Theosophy, Anthroposophy and Magick on the same page as New Age. New Age did borrow from the former, but isn't equal to them - it also borrowed from Hinduism and Buddhism, and yet we don't call Siddhartha Buddha a New Ager."
But the term new age itself does go back to Blavaski and a few others. The new age is not something that came out of the 1960's. If we are using it to mean that, than we are using a somewhat incorrect version of the term as it was coined within the earlier esoteric movement.
The time of buddha was way before Blavaski, so that comparison is not really relevant to the scope of the discussion from the angle I am approaching it at.
My point, and the only point I wish to make is that the New Age is far older than LSD and most people are not aware of it's early history, which was somewhat more respectable than it's more current incarnation...with a few really shady exceptions such as it's (to me) racist undertones.
PsyDuckmonkey
witch
The idea of a "New Age", or "Aquarian Age" of course comes from traditional Astrology, and was most definitely discussed by Blavatsky and co. Still, I don't think it's incorrect to use the "New Age movement" term for the vastly popularized, post-60s version, as to my knowledge neither Blavatsky, nor Crowley, nor any of their contemporaries ever used the term "New Age" to refer to their beliefs, organizations or movements (unlike the post-60s New Agers, who actually did, quite vociferously).
They called themselves Rosicrucians, Alchemists, Mages, Theosophians, Anthroposophians, Thelemites, and many other things.
Fin-de-siecle mysticism was highly aristocratic and elitistic, and yes, quite racist, much like the high society of their time.. And it was definitely more respectable than post-60s New Age. It had its issues though. And it was quite different, too. It was, at the root, still Judeo-Christian mysticism, which was violently rejected by most post-60s New Age.
They called themselves Rosicrucians, Alchemists, Mages, Theosophians, Anthroposophians, Thelemites, and many other things.
Fin-de-siecle mysticism was highly aristocratic and elitistic, and yes, quite racist, much like the high society of their time.. And it was definitely more respectable than post-60s New Age. It had its issues though. And it was quite different, too. It was, at the root, still Judeo-Christian mysticism, which was violently rejected by most post-60s New Age.
maranello551
Rising Star
Could we please get back to OP's question? I am very interested in where it was going..
anne halonium
Rising Star
artists need a variety of colors.
psychonauts need a variety of goodies.
i say try all the colors.
taste the rainbow.
psychonauts need a variety of goodies.
i say try all the colors.
taste the rainbow.
PsyDuckmonkey
witch
I'm going to do my first changa blastoff these days, and I'll make sure to write some words on the comparison with shrooms.
maranello551
Rising Star
PsyDuckmonkey said:I'm going to do my first changa blastoff these days, and I'll make sure to write some words on the comparison with shrooms.
Have you already experience with oral administration/ayahuasca?
Jupitor
Rising Star
Bumping this thread. I've found it to be one of the best discussions about this topic I've seen.
For me, the mushroom reigns supreme in the healing department. But like others have said in this thread, the mushroom commands the experience. And to get the most healing, you need no distractions whatsoever (except some type of ambient music perhaps), and to surrender completely to the experience. And fighting it can be hell. Trusting in the surrender is the name of the game. And I've gone through bouts of difficulty on that front. I've found that I am consistently happier and better when I'm more able to surrender fully to the experience.
Aya was healing as well, to be sure. But I find the experience to be slower, less visual, darker, laced in hard-to-interpret subjective metaphorical imagery, and definitely harder on the body.
I think the only reason mushrooms don't have the healing reputation and respect as a healer Ayahuasca does is because of its simplicity, and because they are easily grown and distributed. They have more of a reputation as a party drug. And because mushrooms tend to be more fun than Aya, mushrooms ended up being invited to a lot of parties.
I've always bemoaned this fact since discovering their amazing healing potential. After my first ever psychedelic experience of ingesting just 1.5 grams of dried cubensis and laying down on my couch, I have become a mushroom healing evangelist. I firmly believe in the power of the other medicines. But for me, the mushroom is my master.
For me, the mushroom reigns supreme in the healing department. But like others have said in this thread, the mushroom commands the experience. And to get the most healing, you need no distractions whatsoever (except some type of ambient music perhaps), and to surrender completely to the experience. And fighting it can be hell. Trusting in the surrender is the name of the game. And I've gone through bouts of difficulty on that front. I've found that I am consistently happier and better when I'm more able to surrender fully to the experience.
Aya was healing as well, to be sure. But I find the experience to be slower, less visual, darker, laced in hard-to-interpret subjective metaphorical imagery, and definitely harder on the body.
I think the only reason mushrooms don't have the healing reputation and respect as a healer Ayahuasca does is because of its simplicity, and because they are easily grown and distributed. They have more of a reputation as a party drug. And because mushrooms tend to be more fun than Aya, mushrooms ended up being invited to a lot of parties.
I've always bemoaned this fact since discovering their amazing healing potential. After my first ever psychedelic experience of ingesting just 1.5 grams of dried cubensis and laying down on my couch, I have become a mushroom healing evangelist. I firmly believe in the power of the other medicines. But for me, the mushroom is my master.
PsyDuckmonkey
witch
As one of my favorite psychedelic public speakers, Kilindi Iyi put it:
He often makes the extremely valid point that the psychedelic movement is too fixated on 'healing', as if trying to appease public opinion and our own prejudices. Instead, exploration and sorcery should be seen as a goal as worthy, or even more elevated than 'healing'. You take 'medicine' to get back to baseline from sickness. You do magic to elevate yourself above baseline.
Jupitor
Rising Star
While I share Kilindi's view on mushrooms for the most part, I just can't imagine what the experience of 30 grams of dried mushroom material would be like. But I doubt many have ever taken the same plunge to verify the nature of his experience at that level. I did get a bit of a vibe that he was in some sort of pissing contest with McKenna.
PsyDuckmonkey
witch
I'll definitely report when I've done it. I need to arrange a tripsitter I can trust, but I've pretty much decided to do it.
Anyway, I know people who routinely eat 15 dry grams in a single sitting, and usually have extremely positive trips. We know the mushroom is not physically dangerous in any normally applicable dose, and I think I have a good enough proof from others that a very high dose trip is not necessarily hard / bad.
I've had my worst mushroom trips on 1 gram. It's as if darkness lived in the void between the worlds. My highest dose so far was 10 grams, and while it was hard (I had a very taxing solipsistic vision of being in a multidimensional void), it wasn't near as bad as some of my 1 gram fuckups (excuse my vocabulary lol).
Anyway, I know people who routinely eat 15 dry grams in a single sitting, and usually have extremely positive trips. We know the mushroom is not physically dangerous in any normally applicable dose, and I think I have a good enough proof from others that a very high dose trip is not necessarily hard / bad.
I've had my worst mushroom trips on 1 gram. It's as if darkness lived in the void between the worlds. My highest dose so far was 10 grams, and while it was hard (I had a very taxing solipsistic vision of being in a multidimensional void), it wasn't near as bad as some of my 1 gram fuckups (excuse my vocabulary lol).
Hotspur922
Rising Star
this right here...modernshamanism said:
I took 2 grams P.allenii with 3 grams of rue and had the worst uncontrollable trip ever... 5 hours of pure confusion and what seemed like dementia.
Jupitor
Rising Star
Hotspur922 said:
Worst trip of my life was 4 grams cubensis with rue. It was 5 hours of hell and I wished for death. I highly recommend exercising caution with this combo, and work your way up dosage wise. I thought I was an experienced psychonaut, but I was completely unprepared for this experience.
Best and most healing trip of my life was 7 grams dried cubensis. And I was OUT THERE, complete with a full on death-rebirth experience. Can't imagine what higher doses would be like. Although I do suspect that it is in my destiny to experience it someday.
I'm currently working on my first Pan Cyanescens grow and am very much looking forward to exploring this species.
Hotspur922
Rising Star
Jupitor said:
that (strain?) looks so pretty!
cubensis is the most common again (strain?) out there but my guy always has Allenii, i'm not complaining because I've read Allenii is a strong strain compared to the avg Cube..
how much rue did you ingest with the 4 grams cube? rec dose is 3 grams but that is to make crystal dmt or aya active in through oral ingestion.
I'm curious as to your dose of rue in relation to my dose... maybe 3 grams was too much rue because again I only ingested 2 grams and it was the most intense, confused, schizo exp I've had...
I have plenty of rue left and would like to find a proper dose to take with another 2 gram dose of Allenii I have soon but hoping for a better controllable outcome this time.
first hour or so was awesome, visuals and laughter but after that it's like I lost my mind, no logical thoughts or thought process, I knew something wasn't right but couldn't comprehend what it was that wasn't right as it was just endless wordless thoughts streaming past my peripheral vision at light speed.
thinking this time around just the 1 gram of rue and the 2 grams allenii, can't be worse then the last time right? LOL
wish I could get my hands on some of those spores you're cultivating
Jupitor
Rising Star
Hotspur922 said:that (strain?) looks so pretty!
cubensis is the most common again (strain?) out there but my guy always has Allenii, i'm not complaining because I've read Allenii is a strong strain compared to the avg Cube..
how much rue did you ingest with the 4 grams cube? rec dose is 3 grams but that is to make crystal dmt or aya active in through oral ingestion.
I'm curious as to your dose of rue in relation to my dose... maybe 3 grams was too much rue because again I only ingested 2 grams and it was the most intense, confused, schizo exp I've had...
I have plenty of rue left and would like to find a proper dose to take with another 2 gram dose of Allenii I have soon but hoping for a better controllable outcome this time.
first hour or so was awesome, visuals and laughter but after that it's like I lost my mind, no logical thoughts or thought process, I knew something wasn't right but couldn't comprehend what it was that wasn't right as it was just endless wordless thoughts streaming past my peripheral vision at light speed.
thinking this time around just the 1 gram of rue and the 2 grams allenii, can't be worse then the last time right? LOL
wish I could get my hands on some of those spores you're cultivating
Panaeolus Cyanescens is a completely different species from the common Ps. Cubensis mushroom. Spores for this species are more common now than they once were, and can be bought from most reputable spore vendors. And I will definitely report back on my findings! The Hawaiian strain of this species seems to be the most highly regarded.
As far as Rue dosage- I honestly have no clue. What I did was pulverize the seeds in a coffee grinder to a fine powder, boiled it on the stove for a while, filtered out the seed material, and reduced the liquid to a ball of thick paste about the size of a marble, which I swallowed about 30 minutes before the mushrooms.
I suspect this was WAY too much Rue. But back then there wasn't as much info on it as there is now, in terms of combining it with the Mushroom. For example, I didn't know that an MAOI is active on its own without an admixture. I'm not sure if I will ever experiement with Rue again. B. Caapi vine is where I get my MAOI from now days.
Hotspur922
Rising Star
As far as Rue dosage- I honestly have no clue. What I did was pulverize the seeds in a coffee grinder to a fine powder, boiled it on the stove for a while, filtered out the seed material, and reduced the liquid to a ball of thick paste about the size of a marble, which I swallowed about 30 minutes before the mushrooms.
I suspect this was WAY too much Rue. But back then there wasn't as much info on it as there is now, in terms of combining it with the Mushroom. For example, I didn't know that an MAOI is active on its own without an admixture. I'm not sure if I will ever experiement with Rue again. B. Caapi vine is where I get my MAOI from now days.
[/quote]
thank you for the response! In my exp I took 3 grams, maybe actually just 2.5 grams of rue and it turned south for me on just 2 grams of allenii...
I want to do some more experimentation and see what the lowest dose to be effective at potentiation will be without effecting the trip in a negative way.
I read something just now stating that we should look at "bad trips" in a more mature way and many times there is a positive to take away from a difficult trip or exp...
I guess its not that odd my wife and I both ate the same amount of rue and mushrooms and both had the exact same negative exp, it wasn't a bad trip because of something psychologically but because of the mixture in that ratio.
I suspect this was WAY too much Rue. But back then there wasn't as much info on it as there is now, in terms of combining it with the Mushroom. For example, I didn't know that an MAOI is active on its own without an admixture. I'm not sure if I will ever experiement with Rue again. B. Caapi vine is where I get my MAOI from now days.
[/quote]
thank you for the response! In my exp I took 3 grams, maybe actually just 2.5 grams of rue and it turned south for me on just 2 grams of allenii...
I want to do some more experimentation and see what the lowest dose to be effective at potentiation will be without effecting the trip in a negative way.
I read something just now stating that we should look at "bad trips" in a more mature way and many times there is a positive to take away from a difficult trip or exp...
I guess its not that odd my wife and I both ate the same amount of rue and mushrooms and both had the exact same negative exp, it wasn't a bad trip because of something psychologically but because of the mixture in that ratio.
doubledog
Titanium Teammate
my view on this is that aya is somehow superior to mushrooms. of course, there are some differencies, but generally, I see it as something like improved or upgraded version. Not much, but still.
In almost all aspects (valuable insights, visuals, body feeling, long term positive effects) it goes little bit deeper or further than shrooms for me.
I would say that this is a consequence of the fact that aya is mixture of two plants with strong synergy.
I am quite surprised that lot of people here prefers shrooms.
In almost all aspects (valuable insights, visuals, body feeling, long term positive effects) it goes little bit deeper or further than shrooms for me.
I would say that this is a consequence of the fact that aya is mixture of two plants with strong synergy.
I am quite surprised that lot of people here prefers shrooms.