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BAD Trips aka DMT is not what you think
- Thread starter litrium
- Start date
modsquad09
mods
hmmm probably not. shes not that cool.
adrian89987
Rising Star
We're the coolest of the cool over here on the nex'
modsquad09 said:
LOL
pattern
Rising Star
litrium i would like to address your points. Excuse me for rambling as I am sick with a headcold. 
I will take your assumptions at face value. I may or may not believe them myself (I probably do). For example you believe the DMT-verse is a real place full of real entities. But this begs alot of questions that I think would be far more interesting to study than to condemn.
As far as DMT itself is concerned, I am worried about your choice of language, for example: "DMT takes your wherever it wants to". DMT is simply a molecule. We should not anthropormorphize it. DMT simply sits around, doing relatively nothing on its own. It is only when we COMBINE it with our brain, that stuff occurs. So I think if you look at it from this point of view (a scientific frame of mind) you can see that this subtle distinction is important. Our minds are using DMT to do things, not the other way around. DMT is not using us.
So if you think about it this way, then our minds have a major role to play in our experiences. The DMT itself doesn't change from person to person (unless it is impure). If you aren't smoking pure white crystals, I would highly recommend NOT smoking it. That's just me. I wouldn't pop an e pill mixed with meth either. But if you want to fuck with yourself, you will get a fucked up experienced.
Now assuming we are truly entering an alternate reality, we can find a plethora of experiences. As you have done, I could compile a list of positive experience to counter your negative ones. So this raises the question: how does one induce a positive experience?
Mental state: are you obsessing on negative/horrible emotions? get your life in positive order before jumping into the spiritual realm. I think if you are watching a lot of horror movies, are obsessed with evil conspiracy theories, thinking about terrorism, bad past experiences, living in shit, or are generally around alot of awful people, your trip is going to reflect that. You are going to naturally drift towards that kind of emotion, and attract that type of spiritual entity towards you. So DMT therefore is not an "upper" or a "downer" but more of an "accelerator" (psychedelic).
The other thing I would like to mention is your location. If you truly believe you are in a spirit realm, then you should be making trip location a top priority. DO NOT trip in a bad place. Do not trip in a place where you had a bad trip before. Go to somewhere very peaceful and relaxing, where good spirits would be, like a mountain stream or wherever.
Anyway I think you have picked up a negative aspect of a psychedelic and drilled towards it too deeply. You get what you deserve with psychedelics. They are not "good" in and of themselves. Psychedelics simply don't work like that. If you want GOOD from a psychedelic, you will find it. But you have to WANT it lithium. You have to work for it.
So I would disagree totally with you on this: "the DMT realm nothing is determined by you". It does depend on you. If you are weak and obsessed with evil, then you will be left to the fate of malevolent spirits. You need to be strong and willful and reject anything negative, and seek the positive with no hesitation.
my two cents
I will take your assumptions at face value. I may or may not believe them myself (I probably do). For example you believe the DMT-verse is a real place full of real entities. But this begs alot of questions that I think would be far more interesting to study than to condemn.
As far as DMT itself is concerned, I am worried about your choice of language, for example: "DMT takes your wherever it wants to". DMT is simply a molecule. We should not anthropormorphize it. DMT simply sits around, doing relatively nothing on its own. It is only when we COMBINE it with our brain, that stuff occurs. So I think if you look at it from this point of view (a scientific frame of mind) you can see that this subtle distinction is important. Our minds are using DMT to do things, not the other way around. DMT is not using us.
So if you think about it this way, then our minds have a major role to play in our experiences. The DMT itself doesn't change from person to person (unless it is impure). If you aren't smoking pure white crystals, I would highly recommend NOT smoking it. That's just me. I wouldn't pop an e pill mixed with meth either. But if you want to fuck with yourself, you will get a fucked up experienced.
Now assuming we are truly entering an alternate reality, we can find a plethora of experiences. As you have done, I could compile a list of positive experience to counter your negative ones. So this raises the question: how does one induce a positive experience?
Mental state: are you obsessing on negative/horrible emotions? get your life in positive order before jumping into the spiritual realm. I think if you are watching a lot of horror movies, are obsessed with evil conspiracy theories, thinking about terrorism, bad past experiences, living in shit, or are generally around alot of awful people, your trip is going to reflect that. You are going to naturally drift towards that kind of emotion, and attract that type of spiritual entity towards you. So DMT therefore is not an "upper" or a "downer" but more of an "accelerator" (psychedelic).
The other thing I would like to mention is your location. If you truly believe you are in a spirit realm, then you should be making trip location a top priority. DO NOT trip in a bad place. Do not trip in a place where you had a bad trip before. Go to somewhere very peaceful and relaxing, where good spirits would be, like a mountain stream or wherever.
Anyway I think you have picked up a negative aspect of a psychedelic and drilled towards it too deeply. You get what you deserve with psychedelics. They are not "good" in and of themselves. Psychedelics simply don't work like that. If you want GOOD from a psychedelic, you will find it. But you have to WANT it lithium. You have to work for it.
So I would disagree totally with you on this: "the DMT realm nothing is determined by you". It does depend on you. If you are weak and obsessed with evil, then you will be left to the fate of malevolent spirits. You need to be strong and willful and reject anything negative, and seek the positive with no hesitation.
my two cents
firstyl, I agree with everything that all those people said ^^
secondly, i've only ever had one midly 'freaky' experience,
and they ALWAYS happen when you stop respecting the chemical.
I went yay, lets go to happy little elf land and they then said
"oohhh... so you want to see the happy little ELVES eh?!"
And it wasn't good. It was freaky, a freaky forest in my mind.
Anyway, It wasn't terrifying, but definately freaky.
A warning.
You must always respect the chemica, and the entities. if your dealing with some mallignant shit,
the only hting I can suggest is that you are just one of those people.
some people just seem to attract bad things in this life, and those people are generally evil or
certainly mallignant themselves.
like attracts like...
as everyone said, its all YOU, nothing more.
secondly, i've only ever had one midly 'freaky' experience,
and they ALWAYS happen when you stop respecting the chemical.
I went yay, lets go to happy little elf land and they then said
"oohhh... so you want to see the happy little ELVES eh?!"
And it wasn't good. It was freaky, a freaky forest in my mind.
Anyway, It wasn't terrifying, but definately freaky.
A warning.
You must always respect the chemica, and the entities. if your dealing with some mallignant shit,
the only hting I can suggest is that you are just one of those people.
some people just seem to attract bad things in this life, and those people are generally evil or
certainly mallignant themselves.
like attracts like...
as everyone said, its all YOU, nothing more.
>> So I would disagree totally with you on this: "the DMT realm nothing is determined by you". It does depend on you. If you are weak and obsessed with evil, then you will be left to the fate of malevolent spirits. You need to be strong and willful and reject anything negative, and seek the positive with no hesitation. <<
I believe the original statement in regards to DMT nothing seems to be determined by me. I sort of get off on evil stuff on lsd and ketamine I'm all about putting on heavy death music and entering the realm of satan, i'm a horror / sci-fi / crime writer in my spare time... anyhow on acid and k i can really feel evil and get the vibe of satan and it can be thrilling as hell but the point is i know those states of mind can be determined and controlled by me...even on E sometimes i can touch evil and feel like a horny little devil bastard of beelzebub trolling the nightclub at 5 a.m. for lost female souls although that is not quite evil... However the spice tends to come at me from it's own space, it's own perspective, it's own dimension, with it's own agenda.... as it those entities really have a mind of their own... they are never evil...the worst they get is forceful in their message but i have not had them try to hurt me... the trip does not correspond with my prior mood. Its as if i open the door and some crazy happy aliens (like the one from American Dad) jump into my house to try to entertain and along the way sell me their new product the "Alien Truth Encyclopedia Britanica" (or the Bible, the Really Really Really New Testament, version 95886 from planet Zmiervok).
I believe the original statement in regards to DMT nothing seems to be determined by me. I sort of get off on evil stuff on lsd and ketamine I'm all about putting on heavy death music and entering the realm of satan, i'm a horror / sci-fi / crime writer in my spare time... anyhow on acid and k i can really feel evil and get the vibe of satan and it can be thrilling as hell but the point is i know those states of mind can be determined and controlled by me...even on E sometimes i can touch evil and feel like a horny little devil bastard of beelzebub trolling the nightclub at 5 a.m. for lost female souls although that is not quite evil... However the spice tends to come at me from it's own space, it's own perspective, it's own dimension, with it's own agenda.... as it those entities really have a mind of their own... they are never evil...the worst they get is forceful in their message but i have not had them try to hurt me... the trip does not correspond with my prior mood. Its as if i open the door and some crazy happy aliens (like the one from American Dad) jump into my house to try to entertain and along the way sell me their new product the "Alien Truth Encyclopedia Britanica" (or the Bible, the Really Really Really New Testament, version 95886 from planet Zmiervok).
Attention All Shipping
Rising Star
Haven't read all of this so this may've been raised before but I'm just wondering if there's a qualitative difference in the spice litrium's been smoking to that others have? If you know how it was extracted, from what, using what solvents or processes or if it's been stored/washed in an unusual way it'd be interesting to know.
gigaschatten
Rising Star
I read that "westerners" have a greater tendency to experience "bad trips" than natural indigene people and I could fully understand that. "Westerners" are oppressed by so many factors and fears that determine their life and have so few spiritual anchors. You know that's true.
@associativum
Giger's paintings are a good example for psychonautic arts. He draws his inspirations from various substances. Once he said that he prefers using an airbrush, because it is a very intuitive means of painting that allows him to paint in altered states.
Many great artists (and scientists) have been (at the very least) inspired by altered state experiences. Of course most deny it, sometimes years later, because they are not taken seriously or they fear that their ego might not be fully credited.
@associativum
Giger's paintings are a good example for psychonautic arts. He draws his inspirations from various substances. Once he said that he prefers using an airbrush, because it is a very intuitive means of painting that allows him to paint in altered states.
Many great artists (and scientists) have been (at the very least) inspired by altered state experiences. Of course most deny it, sometimes years later, because they are not taken seriously or they fear that their ego might not be fully credited.
I don't know I would find it scarier if I actually did believe in demons and stuff with an indigenous mind rather then my western scientific view point on things. Although I agree that certain people are more prone to bad trips and that those who are using psychoactive plants in a ritualistic setting in a positive supporting atmosphere would be less likely to have bad trips. Thats the whole point of all these rituals that cultures come up with around the use of psychoactive plants its just a confidence and comforting booster. Westerners often lack that and tend to just jump right into these things more then people who have a culture built around it.
gigaschatten
Rising Star
I think "westerners" are simply more focused on materialism and rationalism, so they are a lot more afraid of losing the body and the mind, even temporarily. A "bad trip" is not determined by what you perceive, it's determined by how you handle it. What does a "scientific view" give you when you are completely deconstructed or a bunch of evil creatures feed on your spirit? Right, nothing.
Science is a constructed illusion of structure within a dream and knowledge is ignorance.
Science is a constructed illusion of structure within a dream and knowledge is ignorance.
SWIM has lost his body and mind completely what kept SWIM comfortable when going into that hole was that SWIM knew he would come back out because his scientific rational mind said we know this is a safe thing to experience. If SWIM really believed things were out there trying to eat his soul he might be a bit more freaked out by it.
Knowledge is not ignorance those words have the opposite meaning. science is also not a constructed illusion. if you say that the whole universe is an illusion then yes ok science is a constructed explanation for something thats just an illusion. but the illusion seems pretty real to me if someone takes a hammer and beats me over the head with it no matter how much i believe its an illusion my skull will still crack and i will still perish. is our mind tricking us hiding the real truth about reality? probably in a lot of ways yes it is, but that doesn't mean that everything is a complete and utter illusion those kind of arguments go no where and only serve to make "wise men" seem wiser then they actually are.
Knowledge is not ignorance those words have the opposite meaning. science is also not a constructed illusion. if you say that the whole universe is an illusion then yes ok science is a constructed explanation for something thats just an illusion. but the illusion seems pretty real to me if someone takes a hammer and beats me over the head with it no matter how much i believe its an illusion my skull will still crack and i will still perish. is our mind tricking us hiding the real truth about reality? probably in a lot of ways yes it is, but that doesn't mean that everything is a complete and utter illusion those kind of arguments go no where and only serve to make "wise men" seem wiser then they actually are.
gigaschatten
Rising Star
burnt said:
A DMT trip doesn't?
burnt said:
Our mind? No, it's part of the dream.
burnt said:
I see it the other way. Our sciences make us seem wiser than we actually are and we are giving too much attention to the "sensual world", giving it too much weight, which causes fear of loss and a whole bunch of other emotions and actions that derive from it, Padawan
Only because we give things names and causality doesn't make them more real or important on a higher level, it just keeps us more entangled and distracted. This way of seeing things does go somewhere, but you have to lay off your prejudices and follow it. Knowledge is ignorance, it makes people lazy, makes them believe that knowledge could actually be true, lean back and become ignorant.
I'm not entangled or distracted at all by the concepts science has utilized to explain the natural world. A DMT trip seems real that doesn't mean it is. What dream are you talking about exactly? Do you mean this waking dream I am in right now? Not the dream I'm having when im asleep or are those the same?
I hold no precidice that the world is more then what i can see feel and sense but that doesn't change anything. it doesn't help answer what is beyond what I can see and hear. your saying if I stop thinking what i know is true the answer lies in that? that sounds like typical zen like sillyness and I see no reason to believe any of it. I pursue knowledge I don't let others dictate it to me.
haha anyway SWIM thinks he constantly have this conversation with people. SWIM should take a break and go get stoned and drink beer and eat good food and thats exactly what SWIM shall do because despite whats real and whats not those things still feel good
I hold no precidice that the world is more then what i can see feel and sense but that doesn't change anything. it doesn't help answer what is beyond what I can see and hear. your saying if I stop thinking what i know is true the answer lies in that? that sounds like typical zen like sillyness and I see no reason to believe any of it. I pursue knowledge I don't let others dictate it to me.
haha anyway SWIM thinks he constantly have this conversation with people. SWIM should take a break and go get stoned and drink beer and eat good food and thats exactly what SWIM shall do because despite whats real and whats not those things still feel good
gigaschatten
Rising Star
burnt said:
Those are the same. Can you tell a difference? I can't.
burnt said:
There is an unlimited number of answers, but THE answer does not exist. Having answers is paralyzing, not having answers may make you feel helpless, but are you? Does knowledge not feign control? People look for answers because they want security, because they are afraid. Look at the media. People even prefer bold lies to nescience. That's a mass effect. Knowledge can be a means of control, but it controls you, not the other way. You have been raised with knowledge about the world, but do you really utilize it as a tool or does it not rather determine your view of the world? Culture did not ask you to accept it before it put all those answers in your head, you were not free to chose and all you do and think is based on what you were taught. What happens to children in school that do not repeat exactly as they were told? You may feel like you learn new things by yourself now, but on what basics, with what kind of sight. You are merely extending the construct that has established in your mind. Your knowledge has trapped you and makes you ignorant to everything that does not fit in the scheme. That's not Zen, it's simple rationalism.
burnt said:haha anyway SWIM thinks he constantly have this conversation with people. SWIM should take a break and go get stoned and drink beer and eat good food and thats exactly what SWIM shall do because despite whats real and whats not those things still feel good
Have fun!