Best country in the world for entheogen users?

[ohayoco]

What is the best country in the world for entheogen users to live in?

I asked this at the end of an old thread but I'm wondering if people have noticed because it wasn't entirely on-topic. I've put this in the philosophy section to encourage serious discussion.

Factors for consideration:

1. How liberal the culture and government is
2. Healthcare and welfare
3. Stability of the country
4. Climate and availability of natural resources (how pleasant a place to live, fertile land, rain etc)
5. Projected effects of global warming on the country (no good if it'll disappear underwater in 20 years, or become a desert or icesheet)
6. Affordability (availability of land, price, as affected by population growth etc)

 

[endlessness]

Netherlands, Brazil and Peru seem like the best IMO, dont know any country that comes near..

Peru declared ayahuasca a national heritage... Ayahuasca is also legal in Brazil, and both countries have the amazon and shamanism.. In Brazil there is tons of incredibly cheap mimosa too, and cubensis to pick. Mushrooms are not legal in Brazil, but Ive never heard of anybody being arrested with it, the police just doesnt know, its not priority. Netherlands has all the smartshops, coffeeshops and there's plenty of psychedelic substances in general moving around, legally or illegally. I remember there were some controversies regarding ayahuasca, police had stopped some daime ceremony, but I think now its cool.. gotta check better

Extractions are forbidden everywhere though.. In this sense, netherlands is great because in case you do get caught, the jails there are like hotels compared to south america's jails Personal use does not land you in jail in Brazil but in any case dealing with cops is not nice... Dont know in peru.. Must be very hard to be arrested in netherlands for drugs, unless you're a dealer

Brazil is very stable economically, one of the rising powers, and has a good profile in view of global warming, its so big, comprises a long range of lattitude and longitude, that there are many kinds of climates to choose from. Peru is more prone to economic and social problems, and is smaller, but I have no idea what are the predictions for global warming there. Both of them have good climate/geographic conditions for growing ethnobotanicals. Netherlands is nearly underwater already but as long as EU stands, they will be helped to survive, economically too.. dont know what are the predictions there

Peru is the cheapest, Brazil second cheapest, Netherlands way more expensive. In both Brazil and Peru you could find a land with own water source and so on for quite cheap price. Healthcare in Brazil is reasonably good (the private one is as good as anywhere, the public one sucks in big cities but its usually quite good in smaller towns), in Peru dont know, in Netherlands must be very good

 

[ohayoco]

UK:
So far I honestly can't think of anywhere better than the UK, unfortunately. They're currently pretty tolerant of plant entheogens, at least the head shops and internet shops are still selling them openly (aside from shrooms, but they grow wild anyway), and apparently if you get caught you get off lightly as long as it was for personal use for serious psychenautical study. Negatives are the gloomy complaining provincial attitude of the population, having to pay taxes to a royal family, and expensive land. Is there potential that the North Atlantic Drift could shut down and the whole country freeze over? It's an island, so better protected from Climate War invasion, but could become really overpopulated by accepting climate refugees.

USA:
Too draconian in its war on drugs, has awful healthcare and welfare, and crime is relatively high and violent (more than twice as violent as the UK). It gets points for its variety of climates, so one can move freely if global warming makes parts of the country inhospitable. And land is relatively cheap, and people generally have a better more optimistic and friendly attitude. But the aforementioned downsides are significant.

Canada:
Vancouver sounds interesting, I'd like to hear more about it. But the bloody Queen of England is still head of state (do you pay her too?). It has Native Americans to learn from, which is cool. Lots of land. But cold. Next to a belligerent superpower (USA) with historically selfish foreign policy so could be under threat of invasion if Climate War broke out. Will global warming warm the country and open up more land for use, or could the whole place become inhospitable due to freakish weather (global warming is an average effect, the actual weather implications could be all sorts, so I could imagine the whole country freezing over)?

Holland:
It's historically liberal, with even bestiality legal, but is the tide turning now that shrooms have been banned? Also, much of the country is on reclaimed land so will disappear under the sea again with global warming.

Norway:
Statistically found to be the "happiest country in the world". However, very cold! Will it get warmer in time?

Pacific Islands:
Lovely places with caring sharing cultures, but many of them will be under the sea in our lifetimes. Poor healthcare. Poor welfare but that doesn't matter when you can catch your own food so it's not an issue here.

 

[ohayoco]

Thanks Endlessness, yes I'm interested in Peru but still haven't visited, and it's the home of Dreamer's three favourite allies (ayawaska, Torch and coca), so I'd be interested to hear more. I heard the government was racist and persecutes the Natives though? There have been troubles there recently, with the army slaughtering Native protestors trying to save their rainforest from capitalist profiteers who I presume are bribing the government to let them exploit and pollute the rainforest. Maybe Peru is somewhere to live as an expat with the safety net of a house back in your home country to flee to if things go wrong?

Brazil seems kind of scary to me, because in the West all we hear about is the favela drug gangs etc. You're right though, it's a big country so great for roaming in times of climate change. Brazilians have good fun attitudes, and the women are so beautiful! What is the legal situation like there for entheogen use? Can one make a good living working in Brazil?

 

[endlessness]

Im not sure of government being racist in Peru... never heard this.. would be interesting for someone to confirm/disconfirm

Brazil scary, nah.. Favela drug gangs and violence are mostly only in big cities, and even so, if you know your way around its usually not a problem.. You know how the media loves to sell horror. And anyways the best of the country is the smaller towns next to nature, which are very peaceful

As I said, ayahuasca is legal, mimosa is legal and plentyful, and personal use of all proscribed drugs (mushrooms, dmt, peyote/mesc, lsd etc) is not an arrestable crime.. at most a fine/treatment, and this depends on the judge's view (if you get caught with big quantities and scales and ziplocks and things like this, then you're probably fucked)... The police have much more trouble with cocaine and weed, so psychedelics are very not really known.. Ive never heard/read of anybody being arrested with psychedelics, only lsd/mdma/etc dealers.. Btw on a funny note, if you have a university diploma, if you get arrested you stay in 'special area' of prison (still sucks, but) together with those with university diplomas..

The issue for you guys of course is getting a living/working permit, im not sure how easy it is...

as for how easy it is making a living, depends a lot on what you do

 

[Infundibulum]

Endlessness, you forgot to mention that in Brazil you are very likely to find all the films of José Mojica Marins, a.k.a. Coffin Joe. This is the greatest thing about brazil in my opinion!

 

[endlessness]

lol inf!! funny how it fits that you like his stuff hahahah

he's a total cult B character, lol

 

[ohayoco]

Call for napalm bombing of 'savages' wins Survival racism award 26 August 2009

An article implying Peruvian Indians should be bombed with napalm has been named by human rights organisation Survival International as the ‘most racist article’ published in the last year by the mainstream media.

The article was published in the Peruvian national newspaper Correo. It calls indigenous people ‘savages’, ‘Palaeolithic’ and ‘primitive’; says that their languages have no more than eighty words; and declares that, in the protests that have recently engulfed much of Peru’s Amazon, they were manipulated by ‘communist excrement’.

‘For those of you who still think of these ‘ethnic groups’ as ‘good’, ‘naïve’ and ‘pure’, I will remind you that it was these same people who perfected the art of shrinking the heads of their enemies and wearing them on the belts holding up their loincloths. If the ‘natives’ didn’t shrink the heads of the policemen they killed (in the recent protests) and eat their remains, it was only because there wasn’t time.’

The article also attacks three indigenous congresswomen, ridiculing their names and referring to them as the ‘three starlets in the parliamentary sewers’. Its response to the indigenous protests against the exploitation of natural resources on their land is: ‘Get f****d, loincloths and all’. The penultimate sentence is: ‘I don’t know what keeps the president from providing the air force with all the napalm necessary.’

Also:

Draft report on Peru violence provokes Indigenous anger

A draft report on the violent conflict in the Peruvian Amazon in June has drawn widespread condemnation from organisations in Peru.

www.survivalinternational.org

Oil companies ‘should withdraw’ as Peru ‘faces its Tiananmen’

Survival International today called on all oil companies operating in the Peruvian Amazon to suspend operations as the country comes to terms with the worst political violence since the Shining Path insurgency in the 1980s.

www.survivalinternational.org

'No oil drilling without tribes' consent', UN tells Peru

The UN has told Peru’s government it should not allow oil and gas drilling on Indigenous peoples’ land without their ‘informed consent’.

www.survivalinternational.org

Post-killings, Peru clamps down on NGOs

Senior figures in Peru are clamping down on both Peruvian and foreign NGOs in the wake of the violent protests which erupted in the country on 5th June.

www.survivalinternational.org

Peru plans to disband national Indigenous organisation

The Peruvian government is planning to disband Peru’s national organisation representing Indigenous people in the Amazon, known by its Spanish acronym AIDESEP.

www.survivalinternational.org

etc...
Just type 'Peru' into their search engine and you will find a load of stuf about the present administration trying to destroy the indiginous movement so that they can rape the forest.

 

[ohayoco]

Brazil: please could you recommend some nice places to live there, Endlessness? Are there entheo-friendly communities anywhere? It's alright to live in a little place when you've settled down, but if you're single don't you need a lot of people around to find someone? Hence why I'm tied to the city in the UK, because that's where the creatives live over here, whereas the rest of the country isn't very culturally satisfying. Is it different in Brazil?

What's Curitiba like? I think that's the place where the mayor is famour for making the city environmental isn't it?

What about the government etc, what are they like, is there proper rule of law or corruption etc? How's the economy doing? That's a shame that you need to get a living/working permit... so do they only let you in if your profession is something they're short of? No-one is short of creatives unfortunately. Do marriages work to gain domicility, if so how?

So you have public healthcare in Brazil? How about welfare safety nets (not that I plan on being on it ever)? How's taxation? And why did you leave?!

Sorry for all the questions! Oh, how about Portugal, anyone on here from there? Or any other potential countries?

 

[endlessness]

curitiba is nice but boring... and its not a small town.

yeah there are a few places with entheogenic communities (and also a lot of fake hippies in between, of course).. For example, Alto Paraíso (high paradise).. Its a sort of 'mystic' area, next to a national park, quite a few foreigners, nice little town.. And a lot of these alternative people, ayahuasca groups and so on.
And check out these pictures, loads of waterfalls around there,:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8955/1003194.jpg

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8425/1003186.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6146/1003063.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1807/1002769.jpg

The government, well.. I dont know man hard to say.. now its some socialist government but, imo, all governments suck, some more some less (puppet on the right, puppet on the left). there's always corruptions and problems, and then there's always little improvements here and there. Mostly seems like 'bread and circus' measures.
Im not into official politics (poly-ticks), I'd rather put my effort in the daily-life politics. As far as economics go, supposedly Brazil has a very promissing economy, loads of foreign investments coming in.. the crisis didnt affect much the country, or so they say.. but to me all this economic talk doesnt mean much either, it's all so big numbers and statistics and hardly relate to the daily life of the normal person. Some people are up, some are down, but you can live ok, if thats what you're asking

Getting married you get permission to live, yes.. damn bureaucracy and all sorts of papers needed but it works haha

Yes there is a public healthcare.. many ppl in my family work in the health area, I will ask them more info and talk to you. I know public hospitals in big cities are not in good conditions but, for example, I was once with my ex (she's european) in some small town where I went to pick mushrooms, and she had a very bad throat infection.. so we went to the public health post in the town, and some very friendly doctor examined her, gave her antibiotics and so on, obviously all for free, without any distinction that she was a foreigner and didnt have legal residence or smt. I dont know how it is if you have some serious problem and need an operation or something, though.. Ill ask my family

welfare safety nets = retirement funds? yeah there is... you work your whole life contributing and then you get some small small amount when you are old.. better have your guarantees elsewhere

taxation, well.. there's taxes hahaha Im not sure how they compare to everywhere else, have to research more

I left because im studying, and because I had married someone from europe and came to live with her (and because my soul has wings and all the world is home).. but Ill definitely go back at some point (and move again.. who knows.. im not nationalist or stuck anywhere.. time will tell )

 

[polytrip]

I think anywhere, where you can live in peace and you're not likely to be disturbed by the authorities will do.

The american and french governments are notoriously anti-psychedelic and the other thing is that in both countries, the police is sort of sacred and can operate above the law.

You need to live somewhere, where the police is not going to bother you unless you're actively violating the rights of other people or causing damage to the public domain.

I think there are many places where this is the case.

Canada, the more liberal parts of the U.S.(california), holland, belgium, switserland, and the more liberal regions of spain (barcelona, madrid).

When it comes to australia and new-sealand: the authorities are very scared of any alien plant-material crossing their borders because of the many plague's of imported species they've had. But i don't think that they're peticularly anti-psychedelic. I think if you manage to find a local plant or fungus that produce's the goods, and i know that there are local plants and fungi there that do, you can savely cultivate and consume it.

 

[endlessness]

polytrip you are very right

 

[ohayoco]

Thanks all, I appreciate the info. Keep it coming everyone!

Endlessness: I'll be sure to visit Alto Paraiso one day, I'm itching to travel again. Where do you live in Europe, if you don't mind me asking?

Polytrip: do you have anywhere in mind in Belgium and Switzerland? I know a girl from Vienna and she's on the alternative scene there, but I haven't heard her speak particularly kindly of the general Swiss population, not that that matters so much as long as the government is reasonable. And do tell more about Holland! I've been a few times but was young and with friends and didn't really interact with the locals... just ate mushrooms and wandered round in a stoned daze really! :lol: I've been to Amsterdam and Utrecht. Amsterdam is Amsterdam, hehe, fun place. Utrect was like a ghost town, the streets were empty for some reason.

Has anyone on here ever seen any predictions for how climate change could affect different countries worldwide? I'd be very grateful for links.

 

[VisualDistortion]

I believe portugal has decriminalized all drugs. Great weather and wonderful beaches.

 

[jamie]

i want to go to portugal..
psychedelic freedom.. beautiful weather..beautiful women.. amazing shorebreak skimboarding..everything.

 

[soulfood]

I like portugal. Fun times

 

[Infundibulum]

The bad thing with portugal (as well as brazil) is the utterly irritating, dysphonous and horribly sounding portugese language they speak.

Whenever I hear portugese I want to puke and punch at the same time. Imagine listening to portugese while on psychedelics, eeeeek!

 

[VisualDistortion]

The bad thing with portugal (as well as brazil) is the utterly irritating, dysphonous and horribly sounding portugese language they speak.

Whenever I hear portugese I want to puke and punch at the same time. Imagine listening to portugese while on psychedelics, eeeeek!

comer merda:wink:

 

[antrocles]

been to both Brazil and Portugal and have to say that they are both PHENOMENAL. t'would be most amazing to live (portugal) in a place that has no criminalization involved in the medicines we all work with. to be able to openly discuss and share without needing a picture and a false name to do it. think about how different life could be! the weather is epic, the women are gorgeous, the culture is extremely 'priority-correct'...... i give it a solid A.

brazil is one of the most beautiful places i've ever been. i have dived off of waterfalls like the ones endlessness posted. i have hiked through rainforest. the spirit of the people is positive even when they have nothing. outside of the major cities would definitely be the best though.... i never experienced crime first-hand (but i'm a big, kind of intimidating looking fella), but the cities and the favellas can provide a sense of un-ease for those not from such a place. 3rd world countries as a whole would require a serious restructuring of one's life habits. personally, i think it would all be for the better.

i personally would love to set-up shop in Bali or Thailand...but you're risking your life to do so if you work with entheogens.... :shock:

i guess my vote would be for Portugal only because you are closer to the whole of europe if you wanted to do anything extra. brazil is so huge and so removed from the rest of the world....

oha- check out Florianopolis while you're scoping out Brazilian places....beautiful place....

L&G!!

 

[endlessness]

The bad thing with portugal (as well as brazil) is the utterly irritating, dysphonous and horribly sounding portugese language they speak.

Whenever I hear portugese I want to puke and punch at the same time. Imagine listening to portugese while on psychedelics, eeeeek!

Its true, worse than the sound is the gramatic, jeez haha I may be biased to say so but I find the brazillian portuguese much prettier than the portuguese one, as it's softer. Portuguese from portugal sounds like people are speaking with an egg in the mouth hahaha Still kinda weird, and foreigners specially have a problem with some nasal sounds like the "Não"

Im curious what do you find a nice sounding language... I love certain indigenous languages.. Of the western languages, I really like italian, spanish is interesting too but has something weird about it. German sounds horrible imo, very rough and agressive. English is kinda bland.