Best LSA trip: Morning Glory, Ololiuqui, or Hawaiian Baby Woodrose?

[reflexion]

It's apparently very common for vendors to sell strains of Ipomoea misidentified as Rivea corymbosa.

I think if you need more than 30 seeds, you probably have misidentified seeds belonging to Ipomoea.

they look nothing alike.

why you dont believe someones experience with fresh seed, right off the vine, and from various vendors? its always best to go off your own experinces ofcourse, but i see no reason Kaduaka would not tell the truth about his/her experiences with the seed.
it seems as though you might be a little more sensitive to psychedelics than most people, ron.

i have also seen 15-30 seeds as the suggested dose(and what was used by the native central americans), but from all the reports i have read no one seems to get any psychedelic effects until about 100 seeds..even when eaten fresh off the vine.

 

[69ron]

It's apparently very common for vendors to sell strains of Ipomoea misidentified as Rivea corymbosa.

I think if you need more than 30 seeds, you probably have misidentified seeds belonging to Ipomoea.

they look nothing alike.
why you dont believe someones experience with fresh seed, right off the vine, and from various vendors? its always best to go off your own experinces ofcourse, but i see no reason Kaduaka would not tell the truth about his/her experiences with the seed.

I looked it up and all the books I have give dosage rage at around 10-30 seeds. That's the dosage recommended by most shamans. I find it hard to believe the shamans are wrong. If you need 100+ seeds, then it's probably a different strain or a different species. The shamans are right nearly all the time and western science is usually wrong when it comes to these things. The shamans know exactly which ones are the true Ololuiqui and know how to use them properly. THEY ARE THE EXPERTS, not you or me or anyone else.

The common dosage given by shamans is 14 pairs, that's 28 seeds. They've used these for hundreds of years. They know what they are doing. If you need more than that, there's something wrong in the preparation, or the seeds are not right.

 

[reflexion]

yeah, i agree with what you're saying. i was a little slow on my edit...sorry about that.

surely the shamans must have had a much more potent strain available to them than whats being passed around now, or knew something that we don't about the preparation of the seed.

kaduaka reportedly grows his own and has tried different seeds from several different vendors, and cliams that he never gets effects with less than 100 seeds, fwiw

 

[69ron]

It could be growing conditions making them weaker than the ones the shamans use. I serious doubt the shamans are incorrect about dosage.

 

[Kannamate]

yeah could be since shamans ate them in their natural environment,or maybe the plants were very old lot of people seem to have trouble getting it to flower.

 

[69ron]

I don't know if it's SWIM's response, or how he prepared them, or if they were just really good Ololiuqui seeds, but they seemed pretty potent. 4 seeds was a threshold dose. I think 10 would be enough for visuals. We'll see next time.

 

[MalargueZiggy]

When SWIM extracted from Morning Glory (over a decade ago) there were two teks on Erowid. Have a look, they should still be there somewhere. One used chemicals, and the other just used alcohol, water and a fan.
SWIM went for the latter, and ingested sublingually by holding magic vodka in his mouth.

Nice one mate, I'm going to track this down.

 

[Ginkgo]

In my opinion, Rivea Corymbosa is by far the best source of LSA. Hawaiian Baby Woodrose and Morning Glory are both kind of dirty, especially HWBR. If you use fresh seeds instead of stored ones, the potency is many times stronger, and my experience is that less of the side effects is noted. Maybe some of the LSA is getting downgraded to some of the more sedating and nauseous ergolines over time? With stored R. Corymbosa, I use around 200 seeds give or take for a good trip, but with fresh 50-100 is enough.

 

[69ron]

Well, shamans prefer Rivea corymbosa over all the others and they use them freshly picked.

LSH (lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide) is one of the main alkaloids present in these seeds when fresh but quickly degrades. Animal tests showed it to have LSD like action on the animals behavior, and also showed it to be a stimulant. LSA is a sedative.

These seeds, when fresh, likely contain more LSH than LSA. As time passes LSH decomposes into LSA and acetaldehyde which explains why the seeds become more sedating as they age.

SWIM is going to try a higher dose of Rivea corymbosa in a while using the same peppermint tea extraction tech (which should theoretically reform LSH from LSA). SWIM no longer uses LSA without conversion to LSH because he does NOT like sedatives at all unless he’s trying to sleep.

The amount of seeds he used previously wasn’t really enough to judge the effects well. It was a threshold dose that was just lightly felt.

 

[kemist]

If you use fresh seeds instead of stored ones, the potency is many times stronger, and my experience is that less of the side effects is noted. Maybe some of the LSA is getting downgraded to some of the more sedating and nauseous ergolines over time?

Definitely!!!
In one of first ILPT attempts to make brew he used hot water for extraction/maceration by mistake and brew was very sedating. Effects were barely noticeable. Mainly potentiaton of smoked weed and drunked alcohol was noticed
Next time he done cold water extraction/maceration on freshly harvested seeds and potency of brew rose astronomically!!!

 

[kemist]

Damn, you guys made him think twice. Let`s grow some rivea instead of ipomoea!!!

 

[Ginkgo]

Before you all go crazy about Rivea Corymbosa, there is a big problem with it: The yield. You only get 1-2 seeds, a few times 3, per flower. Secondly, R. Corymbosa is not often flowering before the second year of growth. If you, as I do, got alot of space and alot of time, R. Corymbosa is great. But for everyone else, Morning Glory is better, as they can yield thousands of seeds per plant.

 

[kemist]

Before you all go crazy about Rivea Corymbosa, there is a big problem with it The yield. You only get 1-2 seeds, a few times 3, per flower. Secondly, R. Corymbosa is not often flowering before the second year of growth. If you, as I do, got alot of space and alot of time, R. Corymbosa is great. But for everyone else, Morning Glory is better, as they can yield thousands of seeds per plant.

Blimey ther`s always something! :twisted:

 

[Ginkgo]

Yeah, life's not easy. My suggestion is to grow a alot of all three LSA sources. Lovely plants with beatiful flowers and a even more beatiful trip. In my opinion, LSA/LSH is nothing like any other entheogen. It may be kinda similar to LSD, but the sedating qualities make the trip very different.

I have sometimes mixed some HWBR/MG with R. Corymbosa, the Corymbosa so I don't have to take too much of the HWBR/MG. This works great if you want to take a high dose. My experience is that the really nasty nauseaus side-effects only comes with high/extreme doses. For these doses, you should never even consider HWBR or MG alone, believe me, it is really bad. Mix it with R. Corymbosa, I have had great trips with ~200 fresh MG and ~100 fresh R. Corymbosa.

If you really want to go deep with these seeds, I suggest mixing with something that stimulates you, preferably Psilocybe-mushrooms, LSD or Mescaline. If you don't want to mix two different entheogens, you can use some Ephedra/Sida for the Ephedrine. I will not suggest Amphetamines as they tend to fuck up both your nervous system and psyche pretty good. If you don't use a stimulating substance, you will most likely have a hard time staying awake, as the sedating qualities is very strong on high doses. Oh, and a good joint is great for stopping the nausea and giving the visuals a kick-start.

 

[tolu]

Seeds were extracted into a cold water tea and the tea was drunk for prep.

Please could you do a write up of your exact extraction method or link to whichever one you did?


What do you all use to help deal with the nausea from MG seeds?

 

[Ginkgo]

What do you all use to help deal with the nausea from MG seeds?

First, fresh seeds have less of the nauseous effects. Second, a good extraction method (cold-water) removes much of the nasties. Third, you can use some good Marihuana, not too much though, to combat the nausea. If you want something that doesn't affect the trip as much, Ginger is great. Mint and Chamomile might also help you. Also, some users in here report Datura Stramonium seeds is a good way to stop nausea, but the tropane alkaloids in the seeds will of course affect the LSA/LSH trip.

 

[Zero_Hour]

Have not had R. Corymbosa...

Morning Glory (only use heavenly Blue for best effect) has provided the best and most fulfilling of the LSA experience. SWIM has only had wonderful experiences with these. Making everything so much more bright and vibrant and peaceful and happy. All negative feelings washed out and only the marvel of all that is nature.

HBWR is more body load and difficult emotionally. Though the intense psychological discomfort pays off in the end (at least for SWIM) by showing the point behind the discomfort--like forcing SWIM through the burning trenches for to better appreciate the beauty of it all.

In both seeds, visuals lack--usually just brightening of light and color and trails...auras and such...

SWIM prefers high doses when dealing with LSA seeds...Always with MG SWIM would never take a dose less that 600 seeds usually prefering the 800-900 seed mark...though admittedly this is tough getting down into the stomach...and quite frankly SWIM can not even take MG anymore as after the first scoop of seeds are chewed and swallowed (or even grinded to powder and washed down with water or juice) within moments the matter is then vomited right back up...It used to be that SWIM could chew and swallow 900 seeds (give or take a few) and have no problem with nausea (least of all vomiting)...then as the number of trips mounted, the nausea would get worse every time. For a while the nausea would be a sign of the strength of the trip like the nausea would fade into the psychedelic effect (change over like a light switch)...(good music helps keep the nausea at bay)...then one day the seeds just would not stay down no matter what--and SWIM's body rejected the mere presence of the seed.

SWIM always held the Morning Glory experience in very high regard (and still does) and felt that the plant was a spiritual teacher of sorts and SWIM's body no rejecting the seeds is like a sign that he has learned all there is to learn from this particular plant teacher and that there is no reason to continue using it. SWIM spent 2 summers taking heavy doses once a week. Beautiful experiences--always wondrous and powerful. Vibrant, pure and euphoric--body high very comparable to that of a low dose LSD trip

HBWR has been a difficult experience for SWIM. He switched to HWBR due to the no-longer-possible successful ingestion of MG. As well due to the obvious benifits of HBWR: MUCH fewer seeds needed for effect.

The 2 seeds are VERY different while remaining very much so the same. The differences are subtle yet drastic. SWIM's first experience was with 10 seeds. SWIM got more than he bargained for and had a VERY difficult day. The body-load was so intense and uncomfortable. Visuals (if you can call them that) were more pronounced than with MG--like little balls of light bouncing across feild of vision and the usual brightening of light and color. Trails were heavier. Emotionally HBWR was exceedingly hard to deal with. SWIM was near tears just wanting it to all go away. He thought of going for a walk around the neighborhood though it was an extremely hot and humid day and he became lost very quickly. It was no fun at all. HOWEVER, once the trip wound down it became apparent that all this terror was a good thing and many issues in SWIM's life were looked at from a different perspective and things had become clear and it was all worth it (hence the idea that there is no such thing as a bad trip).

Though body load is VERY intense and often uncomfortable, Psychologically the mind is put through a gauntlet of sorts--if you make it out the other end you are better for having done so...Morning Glory is far more pleasant and happy and perfect for natural settings--HBWR is difficult and uncomfortable but equally worth the time and just as useful however for stricter occasions and greater care and preparation is needed. Of course dosage is something that must be experimented with--Personally SWIM would never go above 10 HBWR seeds--8 is usually a good high point for him. With MG sky is the limit as far as dose goes.

Extractions are something SWIM would rather avoid as it seems to take away from the experience and the potency. LSA by itself is not as good--IMO--as when consuming plant material--there is more to a plant seed than just LSA...there are other substances in the seed that contribute to the effect--SWIM believes extractions kill the spirit.

Although there was that one extraction in that book Eulisis (or however its spelled) and the search for the magic mushroom or something like that (can't recall the author) but there was an extraction made in Mexico of (I think) R. Corymbosa that was in syrup form that--according to the author--far and beyond beat out the experience of LSD. Beat out any other psychedelic experience he had ever had. If anyone knows the book name and author please post it--thanks

EDIT: also, smoking some weed with it greatly enhances the experience--though can add a certain degree of confusion...especially with HBWR...but cannabis is always a good addition

 

[69ron]

SWIM has tried up to 12 seeds (weighing 200 mg) of Rivea corymbosa. There were effects, but still too mild to really be called psychedelic. After the peak, SWIM took 3 Datura stramonium seeds. My, that combination is very nice. I think Datura stramonium seeds are now SWIM's favorite universal additive for both tryptamines and mescaline. It boosted the potency of the Rivea corymbosa seeds by about 2x, and made it much more pleasant, more like LSD. Definitely an A+ combination.

SWIM has yet to use a psychedelic dose of Rivea corymbosa. He's very cautious. 1 HBWR seed is enough for SWIM, so he doesn't trust going by other's dosage recommendations since he's so sensitive to LSA. He'll just have to work his way up the ladder until he finds the right dose.

You guys, if you haven't already tried it, combining 1-3 Datura stramonium seeds chewed thoroughly in the mouth with any LSA containing seed really ads a nice dimension to the trip. It increases the potency by about 2x and makes it more LSD-like, and more visual. It also counteracts the drowsiness of LSA a little and prevents nausea. It's a great combination. Start with 1 seed, then go up to about 3 if 1 isn't enough. Some people are extra sensitive to hyoscyamine (the active alkaloid in Datura stramonium seeds) and should only use 1 seed. 1 seed contains up to 56 micrograms of hyoscyamine and about 14 micrograms of scopolamine. That's an extremely safe dose. 1500 micrograms is the maximum safe dose of hyoscyamine used for medicinal purposes, so 1 seed is extremely safe.

 

[soulfood]

This forum really wants me to try new things.

 

[kemist]

Just one odd question guys. How many grams(roughly) weights lot of 100 rivea corymbosa seeds???

Parrot is about to order some but vendor not counting them but weighing instead!