Bipolar person seeks stories of people who gone bad (e.g. psychosis) on DMT

[djdg]

Greetings from the Netherlands!

Since 3 years I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I take Lithium for it. Also I take Abilify (anti-psychotic) and Sertraline (anti-depressant). I have a light (due to medication) manic period once a year.

I have a strong wish to try DMT. I've been talking to my psychiatrist about it but she advised me not to do it. I am aware of the contra-indications with my medications and the risks (e.g. serotonin-syndrome), so I'll only do it once my medication has been reduced. I've been researching for three years now and barely (as in not) found stories about people who ended up in a psychosis after doing DMT. Are there any or do those people simply don't put out their story? Or are my search skills inadequate?

(Sorry for this messy post, but my English (grammar) is not that good)

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

It may be a long time before your medication is reduced, just be warned. Lithium is generally considered to be a life-long drug, I'm afraid. I have several bipolar relatives and most of them have been on lithium for decades now.

You should ask yourself if DMT is really worth it. I can't tell you any horror stories about DMT and BP off the top of my head, but bipolar is generally considered to be something you should avoid messing with. I have read reports of people who have BP and take LSD who go on to suffer long-term psychotic problems. DMT may just not be for you this lifetime. Maybe next time around?

Hopefully you'll get off the sertraline and the aripirazole with time, but you're going to have to make a push for that: let your doctor know that that's what you want to do, one day. Otherwise, it's possible they'll just keep you on it. I'm kind of surprised they give sertraline to someone with bipolar -- I've generally learned that SSRIs run a risk of pushing people into mania.

Blessings
~ND

 

[pitubo]

Don't expect a psychiatrist to applaud your desires to use (in .nl) illegal drugs. They can't stop you and aren't allowed to rat on you to the police, but they will never formally agree with you doing this. Not even if they personally thought that it is okay for themselves. They are professionally bound to a system that rejects this.

In any case you should ask the doctors or psychiatrists who prescribed you the medications that you use about the side effects and contraindications. They may disagree with your choices with regard to self-medication, but they are obliged to honestly provide you with correct medical information. Do demand complete information from the psychiatrist who is the final responsible for your medication, not just some nurse who gives your the pills.

AFAIK your medications are mostly a risk in combination with MonoAmine Oxidase Inhibitors - MAOI's - like harmine and harmaline (which are technically Reversible Inhibitors of MAO-A, - RIMA's), not with DMT alone. Be aware that a form of DMT infused into herbs, called changa, generally also contains the harmala alkaloids. But don't just trust my word, ask your doctor.

As to your fears about psychosis, I think that the DMT experience itself is too short to have a classical "bad trip" like some people have with psychedelics whose effects last many hours. However, the experience can be very intense and may cause deep confusion about your experience of self and reality.

You must ask yourself the question "can I deal with such confusion?" There is a thread here about why not to use DMT. I urge you to read it. Also read the many postings of members about their efforts and problems to integrate some of their experiences.

Remember that DMT is not a miracle substance. The most important ingredient of the experience is you. Having said that, I wish you best of luck with your choice, whatever you choose. Be safe, be responsible.

 

[Anarkid]

I'm going to go ahead and piggyback on what has been said already. I do not believe that psychedellic drugs are a good idea for people with any kind of emotional or mental disorders. Having said this, I do believe that emotional disorders can be overcome by sheer will power. I am living proof of such a case. Don't let the problem control you. Fight. Hard. It will be painfull. It will be arduous. In the end you will be a better person for having defeated your problem. Maybe then you will be ready to experience DMT. Don't believe the hype. The doctors and drug companies want to keep you medicated. They don't want you to be healed. So they spread lies and rumors making the masses believe that you cannot be healed. Making you believe this is a life long plight. It does not have to be if you do not want it to be. Your mind is a powerful medicine. It can heal almost anything. It can block pain. It can block negative emotions. If you don't believe me, research the placebo effect and see all the wonderful things that believing alone has cured. Just fight it. Beat the odds. You can do it as many have before you and many will after you.

 

[pitubo]

^^^^ Psychedelics really helped me out with some issues, but I generally agree that will to autonomous self-resposibility trumps any external aid, material or immaterial.

With psychiatrists and "doctor drugs", my motto is "I don't take drugs from people who don't take them themselves."

 

[Anarkid]

^^^^ Psychedelics really helped me out with some issues, but I generally agree that will to autonomous self-resposibility trumps any external aid, material or immaterial.

With psychiatrists and "doctor drugs", my motto is "I don't take drugs from people who don't take them themselves."

Great motto. And psychedelics may very well help but then again they may make it worse. That is a decision only the person themselves can make. I wouldn't recommend it. But it may very well be what certain people need.

 

[pitubo]

Psychedelics helped me to the insight that before I tried psychedelics, I was already stuck in a "trip" and it was a sort of bad trip.

Psychedelics helped me realize that I can change the trip I am in. I had to do the changes myself. That took more than just dosing myself with substances.

I made a serious effort figuring out how to let people have a trip without going "bad". So far, I have had good success introducing people to psychedelics with a positive resulting experience.

I have tried a couple of times to help people with psychological issues help themselves with trips, but I find that I sometimes have some positive influence, but very little control overall. The major factor seems to be the amount of responsibility a person wants to take for the changes in his or her own situation in life.

Depending on the person, these changes can mean a great effort conquering their own assumptions towards themselves, but also those of their environment that is a strongly linked part of their assumptions about themselves.

 

[Candiety]

I think I can offer something towards this.

A friend of mine would almost certainly be diagnosed with bipolar if he hadn't refused medical help these past few years (I think he may now actually be diagnosed. I seem to remember it was indicated by medical professionals that he probably was bipolar).

It all started after he abused LSD and Ketamine in Ibiza about 7 years ago. Since then he generally has a pretty destructive summer breakdown every year.

These breakdowns are directly related to the ingestion of LSD and ketamine and seem to get worse every year. Longer, more destructive, and then more withdrawn. There is generally some kind of trigger in the summer, which leads to the ingestion of LSD and the acquisition of ketamine. After that behaviour becomes increasingly erratic, to the point that last year a lot of people were hurt in various different ways (some physically).

When I saw him last year he claimed to have recently smoked DMT but I've got no idea if that was true or not, as he was in a seriously seriously delusional state of mind and I had to call the police (which I can assure you was a very hard thing to go through, but somebodies life was at risk. The police were a complete failure).

Now there are plus sides to my friends experimentation with psychedelics; he is extremely healthy and fit, he meditates and practices sustainable, utopian values. He has arrived at the same earthly paradigm many of us round these parts have already, or indeed will, generally arrive at.

However, it is clear to me and all those around me that he should not use psychedelics any more. The Alan Watts quote 'if you get the message hang up the phone' springs to mind. Unfortunately, he has been convinced that they help him, regardless of the problems which have been caused.

This is my personal experience with one friend. In my opinion his logic system has failed, due to a combination of mindless acceptance of various conspiracy theories and years of psychedelic/dissociative misuse. His suggestibility was opened up, and all kinds of damaging material polluted his mind. I honestly think this is the true crux of his bipolar.

I post this simply as a response to your request. I don't think, personally, that everything is quite so black and white, so you're going to have to judge it for yourself. Do you have a past record of substance misuse? Do trusted and understanding friends consider you rational? What are their thoughts? What do you think? These are questions I would be asking, but obviously it is hard to determine.

I have read many first hand accounts of people with bipolar and even varying degrees of psychosis using psychedelics responsibly, and have heard that DMT is more forgiving than others.

 

[Adjhart]

Ok, well,

it seems there have been plenty of people telling you walk the line of caution and not to try DMT.

Personally, I think DMT has a much greater chance of outright curing you than it does leaving you psychotic. One significant factor to this is your preemptive and focused intention on self healing.

No one here knows what you go through each day, therefore no one here can effectively analyze the risk-reward.

But the people in my experience who have enjoyed profound, positive, life changing experiences - including those who had/have mental disorders - far outweigh the people who become damaged long-term by DMT. In fact, I've never heard of a story where someone was left psychotic after DMT use.

Everyone else was telling you be reserved - someone had to balance it out.

 

[Trypfinity]

In fact, I've never heard of a story where someone was left psychotic after DMT use.

Everyone else was telling you be reserved - someone had to balance it out.

Neither have I, but that doesn't mean too much.

Djdg, give us an update if you decide to try it out. But either way, glad to have you

 

[indydude19]

I am either manic depressive, recurring depression, or Bipolar, i stopped going to therapy before a strict diagnosis could be made, instead of medication i went a more dangerous route and used psychedelics to try and spring my brain chemistry to a little more normal zone, and it sort of worked, or i just gained acceptance of the condition and it has less hold on me now.

But i'm quite sure its not bipolar, however i once smoked a much too large dose of DMT 120-160mg in one hit, when i was not depressed, and it triggered my depression to come back. However it brought on a depression without depressive mood, i had other symptoms like loss of interest, erratic sleep patterns, loss of appetite and thirst (lost about 20 Ibs. before i realized what was happening), and some other stuff. i waited about a year of no tripping or rolling.

The next summer i consumed around 300mics LSD and was able to conciously bring back my appetite and my interest in life, it was a strange event, to become so hungry both physically and mentally during a trip, but i truly felt my appetite come back for food, for knowledge, and for success and happiness. I started working out a bunch and got into the best shape of my life at the time, ran my first half marathon. After a while the hunger faded a little but, but i can only think that my brain chemistry had rebounded closer to the levels normal for my semi-psychotic behaviors before. Overall a net gain in personality control, but some very intense, crazy and mind shattering things happened through the course. I still suffer from either periods of mania and depression or just depression and not, but they are not as bad as when i was younger.

Hope this helps, i am sure i am not a common case, if you knew me in real life you would probably say i am borderline insane, but not in a harmful im a killer kind of way lol

 

[Adjhart]

In fact, I've never heard of a story where someone was left psychotic after DMT use.

Everyone else was telling you be reserved - someone had to balance it out.

Neither have I, but that doesn't mean too much.

Meaning is relative. I agree that it doesn't mean much what I think of the fact that I've never seen a situation like mentioned. I agree that it doesn't mean much of what you think of it. The only thing that is important or relevant is what it means to the OP.

So I share my experience with OP so that he may add it to his own, and follow his now-more-robust authority.

I don't want anyone to get the idea that I'm ok with giving careless advice. By all means, take extreme care, just don't forget to consider the fantastic possibilities when considering the harrowing ones.

 

[Warrior]

Better late than never.

I tried to escape the game of life a few years ago, and the quick and decisive nature of the whole ordeal made them want to diagnose me as bipolar. My mother has had some issues as well, but otherwise I've never had a manic episode. I can reference plenty of times in my life when my thinking shifted to different perspectives, on a timescale of days, weeks, or months, (or longer). But in 20/20 hindsight, I have come to realize you can reframe just about any incident as terrible and pathological, or simply the shifting sands of time and change. In other words, if I deserve the diagnosis or not--at any point in my life--the diagnostic criteria only fits in the muddiest of ways. In realizing how shoddy the diagnostic criteria is, and how accusatory and incriminating the nature of the beast is, I have no choice but to conclude it's an elaborate human game/enterprise like any other mostly-blind corporation or institution in this world. I mean this in the least cynical way possible. The work they do to help a lot of suffering people is credit-worthy.

Yet, just because the field of psychiatry can bin people and observe trends as phenomena doesn't mean it's right. In the long run, it is always politically wrong to outcast subpopulations among the global population. It always leads to unfortunate situations. And according to epidemiology, the 'bipolar' subpopulation has been a thriving 2-4% of all cultures, around the world, for all of recorded history. It's a diagnostic criteria that is at equilibrium with the genetic pool at large. If that doesn't strike you as an interesting factoid... Well. It might someday.

As a classically trained neuroscientist I also have to say my professional opinion stands firmly at it all being a BS game. I don't mean that in a toxic anarchist way. I mean that as we are all wandering a complicated pinball game of emotional stimuli, and 99% of the world is completely blind to it. Find your emotional and spiritual core and you see this for yourself. There is no such thing as inappropriate or wrong personal experience. All personal experience is valid. Just keep love in your heart, good intentions in mind, and strive to be non-reactive at all times. You'd be surprised how liberating this practice is. No more pills, no more therapy. It's beyond what you can get from most holistic boutique doctors. If you can build within you the capacity to weather any emotional storm, and maintain harmony in your surroundings, and in your life overtime, then no one can step in from the outside and tell you your personal experiences in life are wrong. Simple as that.

I say do what your heart desires. Do it from a centered place of personal discovery. Be safe. Don't hurt anyone, (including family and friends by harming yourself). Be smart about all the details. The details matter with this stuff.

Best wishes on your journey, djdg! Remember: if you find yourself in hell, keep going.

 

[Bill Cipher]

Personally, I think DMT has a much greater chance of outright curing you than it does leaving you psychotic. One significant factor to this is your preemptive and focused intention on self healing.

Can I assume you're a doctor? If not, please refrain from dispensing contraindicated medical advice in the forum. We don't do that here.

 

[jamie]

Personally, I think DMT has a much greater chance of outright curing you than it does leaving you psychotic. One significant factor to this is your preemptive and focused intention on self healing.

Can I assume you're a doctor? If not, please refrain from dispensing contraindicated medical advice in the forum. We don't do that here.

He said "I think" which usually means it is just personal opinion, not medical advice. There has to be a line between trying to be the thought police and not giving out reckless inforamtion, which I dont see going on so far. Had he said "I think DMT has a much greater chance of not curing you than healing you", I dont think anyone would be pointing fingers..so how is this different?

Nothing was said IMO that was given as medical advice, and no absolute claims were made that require some kind of evidence. A person stated what they personally believe, and that is all.

 

[۩]

As a classically trained neuroscientist I also have to say my professional opinion stands firmly at it all being a BS game.

 

[calvinandhobbes]

Bipolar is extremely hard to keep in check... don't risk jeopardising the gains you've made on your medication.

 

[dreamer042]

As a classically trained neuroscientist I also have to say my professional opinion stands firmly at it all being a BS game.

^^^

 

[ymer]

I know that the correct thing to say in this situation and in this place is "do what your doctor tells you to, they are professionals", but I will go against the flow and encourage to do it. :thumb_up:

 

[fourthripley]

In fact, I've never heard of a story where someone was left psychotic after DMT use.

Everyone else was telling you be reserved - someone had to balance it out.

Neither have I, but that doesn't mean too much.

Djdg, give us an update if you decide to try it out. But either way, glad to have you

Horrible problem(s) - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
http://www.psychonaut.com/ayahuasca-dmt/32077-horrible-problem-s.html