Bufo Alvarius

[FastFourierT]

Sorry this is a bit off-topic but I have a personal example about "animal consciousness".

When I was young we used to have a female dog that we found on a street(some kind of husky/northern type homeless mix). My dad was the one who found it and was closest to in the family. He also used to go work overseas, disappearing for several months overtime. Anyway, after a couple of years or so, a day before he would go away she would get really said and depressive, lots of whining and all. I dont know how she would know that, nothing would really change around the apartment to give it away, all my dad would do was to pack a suitcase beforehand. She would continue to be depressed for a week or two after as well, eating less, only maintaining the fraction of playfulness for a while. As much of a scientific mind I try to maintain(quantative major and all) I still can't logically view that dog as an input/output stimuli-based machine. I tell you there has to be some emotion in that thing. And that ESP sense... wtf

 

[Lodi]

Sorry this is a bit off-topic but I have a personal example about "animal consciousness".

When I was young we used to have a female dog that we found on a street(some kind of husky/northern type homeless mix). My dad was the one who found it and was closest to in the family. He also used to go work overseas, disappearing for several months overtime. Anyway, after a couple of years or so, a day before he would go away she would get really said and depressive, lots of whining and all. I dont know how she would know that, nothing would really change around the apartment to give it away, all my dad would do was to pack a suitcase beforehand. She would continue to be depressed for a week or two after as well, eating less, only maintaining the fraction of playfulness for a while. As much of a scientific mind I try to maintain(quantative major and all) I still can't logically view that dog as an input/output stimuli-based machine. I tell you there has to be some emotion in that thing. And that ESP sense... wtf

I think this might be linked to the toad producing a different or bad trip because its kept in a cage. a dog can "feel" your emotion and sense what your planning on doing in the next couple days. my dog knows if im getting up out of my chair to take her outside or just getting a drink.. whats to say that a depressed toad wouldnt produce a slightly different structure of molecules, or chemical changes that it would normally not experience, had it not been locked up in a cage. I think thats a plausible theory...

 

[Not Sure]

I just wanted to post about my toads. They are very happy in the 75 gallon tank I got them. Coconut fiber is a great substrate for them and changing the water every day makes them real happy. we are looking into getting some mice to feed them as a treat.

I took a video of one of the males mounting the only female we have, she wasn't into him it seemed. It ended up being 4 males and 1 female that we got. The video isn't too exciting but kinda cool so I thought I would share.

 

[Shrabbit420]

Thats pretty cool, I always wanted a few of these guys (and girls). I also like how the toad on the bottom edge of the screen is just watching you the whole time, probably thinking something like "what is this perverted fool doing video taping my neighbors getting it on for" (sorry couldn't resist).

Anyway, have you been able to try any of their poison yet? or are you waiting for them to fully mature? And hows it going with the telepathic milking? If I get a toad I'm gonna try to do that.

 

[hexan]

SWIM has been wanting to purchase a bufo toadfor quite some time. I have done a lot of research on proper care and i have found contradicting arguements.

i read that u can have them live in a 20-40 gallon tank and feed them crickets, worms, roaches, spiders, other toads, and even mice. they need a lot of humidity, but care not to hyper hydrate of course.

THEN, i read someone who owned them and uses there magic, state that having a bufo alvarius live in such a prison type environment would not yeild good experiences, and the lessons would be unpleasant.

This owner states that he made a pond in his yard and placed the bufo toad in it and fed the toad in this spot and it can survive, and it doesnt leave.

my only fear is losing him, i would love to have a nice pond set up for my hypnotoad. any advise?

I think you need to look at your motivation for keeping him. Its a big debate. To keep him in a glass box would be cruel IMO. Im not meaning to say toad owners are cruel, far from it, Im sure that many love and respect their toads.
But you need to decide where to draw the line. If you are keeping him just to squeeze his neck and milk him for psychoactives I think thats a pretty slippy slope.
Ultimately they belong in their natural habitat. I like the pond idea but how realistic is it?

Personally I couldn't and wouldn't keep one captive.

Whatever you decide remember you may come back as a toad, how do you fancy a small glass box?

H

 

[Not Sure]

Thats pretty cool, I always wanted a few of these guys (and girls). I also like how the toad on the bottom edge of the screen is just watching you the whole time, probably thinking something like "what is this perverted fool doing video taping my neighbors getting it on for" (sorry couldn't resist).

Anyway, have you been able to try any of their poison yet? or are you waiting for them to fully mature? And hows it going with the telepathic milking? If I get a toad I'm gonna try to do that.

Lol, I thought the same thing about the other toad watching the camera. I set up the camera pressed play then walked into the other room so I didn't disturb them too much. They have not been milked. We will wait until we have a good strong relationship with them and they trust us fully. They are still get a little scared when anything is above them, but that's instinct.

It may be coincidence but them have seemed to respond to thought. A few times when one of us has send the thought of crickets to them they seemed to get ready for food.

 

[Not Sure]

SWIM has been wanting to purchase a bufo toadfor quite some time. I have done a lot of research on proper care and i have found contradicting arguements.

i read that u can have them live in a 20-40 gallon tank and feed them crickets, worms, roaches, spiders, other toads, and even mice. they need a lot of humidity, but care not to hyper hydrate of course.

THEN, i read someone who owned them and uses there magic, state that having a bufo alvarius live in such a prison type environment would not yeild good experiences, and the lessons would be unpleasant.

This owner states that he made a pond in his yard and placed the bufo toad in it and fed the toad in this spot and it can survive, and it doesnt leave.

my only fear is losing him, i would love to have a nice pond set up for my hypnotoad. any advise?

I think you need to look at your motivation for keeping him. Its a big debate. To keep him in a glass box would be cruel IMO. Im not meaning to say toad owners are cruel, far from it, Im sure that many love and respect their toads.
But you need to decide where to draw the line. If you are keeping him just to squeeze his neck and milk him for psychoactives I think thats a pretty slippy slope.
Ultimately they belong in their natural habitat. I like the pond idea but how realistic is it?

Personally I couldn't and wouldn't keep one captive.

Whatever you decide remember you may come back as a toad, how do you fancy a small glass box?

H

Excuse you. You know what they say about opinions? ( if you don't know I can tell you)

You are being VERY judgmental and really need to stop. Its not a good attitude to have.

 

[narmz]

There are plenty of legal plant sources to obtain bufotenin and 5-meo-dmt. Why not try out an extraction on one of those? Anadenanthera colubrina is a very good source of bufotenin and Diplopterys cabrerana is a good source of 5-meo.

 

[hexan]

SWIM has been wanting to purchase a bufo toadfor quite some time. I have done a lot of research on proper care and i have found contradicting arguements.

i read that u can have them live in a 20-40 gallon tank and feed them crickets, worms, roaches, spiders, other toads, and even mice. they need a lot of humidity, but care not to hyper hydrate of course.

THEN, i read someone who owned them and uses there magic, state that having a bufo alvarius live in such a prison type environment would not yeild good experiences, and the lessons would be unpleasant.

This owner states that he made a pond in his yard and placed the bufo toad in it and fed the toad in this spot and it can survive, and it doesnt leave.

my only fear is losing him, i would love to have a nice pond set up for my hypnotoad. any advise?

I think you need to look at your motivation for keeping him. Its a big debate. To keep him in a glass box would be cruel IMO. Im not meaning to say toad owners are cruel, far from it, Im sure that many love and respect their toads.
But you need to decide where to draw the line. If you are keeping him just to squeeze his neck and milk him for psychoactives I think thats a pretty slippy slope.
Ultimately they belong in their natural habitat. I like the pond idea but how realistic is it?

Personally I couldn't and wouldn't keep one captive.

Whatever you decide remember you may come back as a toad, how do you fancy a small glass box?

H

Excuse you. You know what they say about opinions? ( if you don't know I can tell you)

You are being VERY judgmental and really need to stop. Its not a good attitude to have.

Well alastair opened the discusion and broached the subject of imprisoned toads giving a negative experience. My comment is hardly an attack. Im not meaning to pick a fight, just my opinion.
If you read my post I said I respected other people opinions but it wasnt for me.
Im really not trying to encroach on your freedom to keep reptiles in glass tanks.
H

 

[Enoon]

I looked into keeping toads a while back and was deterred by one main point I found written somewhere on the web. now I don't know if this is true and how true it is in any case but I will just reiterate what I read back then:

it seems that the toads that are kept in captivity have much shorter lives than ones that are kept in the wild.

Once again I don't know how true this is - what factors play a role here etc. But just this idea made me not want to have one. Because I didn't want to be responsible for shortening the life of a creature so magical, or actually any creature for that matter; particularly if it's for entheogenic use I think you'd be collecting some bad instant karma points on this one - if it was true. cash them in on your next trip. no thank you.

But not just the fear of a bad trip is deterring, but the whole idea. As a compassionate being, I can't support keeping these animals in captivity if we thereby risk shortening their lives significantly - because obviously this means they are pretty f***ing miserable if it kills them in the end. Why would I want to be a part of that?

Now my information may be wrong. I'm just saying the possibility of it being so stopped me from doing any more research. I'd rather grow mushrooms, extract spice, extract bufo or whatnot from plants, than run the risk of being cruel to a fellow living being. We are all connected after all.

cheers & love
Enoon

 

[Not Sure]

SWIM has been wanting to purchase a bufo toadfor quite some time. I have done a lot of research on proper care and i have found contradicting arguements.

i read that u can have them live in a 20-40 gallon tank and feed them crickets, worms, roaches, spiders, other toads, and even mice. they need a lot of humidity, but care not to hyper hydrate of course.

THEN, i read someone who owned them and uses there magic, state that having a bufo alvarius live in such a prison type environment would not yeild good experiences, and the lessons would be unpleasant.

This owner states that he made a pond in his yard and placed the bufo toad in it and fed the toad in this spot and it can survive, and it doesnt leave.

my only fear is losing him, i would love to have a nice pond set up for my hypnotoad. any advise?

I think you need to look at your motivation for keeping him. Its a big debate. To keep him in a glass box would be cruel IMO. Im not meaning to say toad owners are cruel, far from it, Im sure that many love and respect their toads.
But you need to decide where to draw the line. If you are keeping him just to squeeze his neck and milk him for psychoactives I think thats a pretty slippy slope.
Ultimately they belong in their natural habitat. I like the pond idea but how realistic is it?

Personally I couldn't and wouldn't keep one captive.

Whatever you decide remember you may come back as a toad, how do you fancy a small glass box?

H

Excuse you. You know what they say about opinions? ( if you don't know I can tell you)

You are being VERY judgmental and really need to stop. Its not a good attitude to have.

Well alastair opened the discusion and broached the subject of imprisoned toads giving a negative experience. My comment is hardly an attack. Im not meaning to pick a fight, just my opinion.
If you read my post I said I respected other people opinions but it wasnt for me.
Im really not trying to encroach on your freedom to keep reptiles in glass tanks.
H

I am only reminding you its your opinion and the way you express it and how that can come off. If you do not want people to own toads make a thread about it rather than weave it into your answer.

Also before you judge consider thinking if you ever owned a pet of any kind? Ever eat meat? Would you try to tell off a shaman that was eating toad skins? Ever eat or cultivate mushrooms? just something for you to contemplate.

 

[Not Sure]

I looked into keeping toads a while back and was deterred by one main point I found written somewhere on the web. now I don't know if this is true and how true it is in any case but I will just reiterate what I read back then:

it seems that the toads that are kept in captivity have much shorter lives than ones that are kept in the wild.

Once again I don't know how true this is - what factors play a role here etc. But just this idea made me not want to have one. Because I didn't want to be responsible for shortening the life of a creature so magical, or actually any creature for that matter; particularly if it's for entheogenic use I think you'd be collecting some bad instant karma points on this one - if it was true. cash them in on your next trip. no thank you.

But not just the fear of a bad trip is deterring, but the whole idea. As a compassionate being, I can't support keeping these animals in captivity if we thereby risk shortening their lives significantly - because obviously this means they are pretty f***ing miserable if it kills them in the end. Why would I want to be a part of that?

Now my information may be wrong. I'm just saying the possibility of it being so stopped me from doing any more research. I'd rather grow mushrooms, extract spice, extract bufo or whatnot from plants, than run the risk of being cruel to a fellow living being. We are all connected after all.

cheers & love
Enoon

Really? I read that they actual live longer in captivity because there are less dangers for them. I will find the link to the oldest know bufo alvarius toad that was 35 in captivity.

Bufo alvarius - Colorado River Toad Sonoran Desert Toad Care Sheet

One bit of info I disagree with in the link is to use sphagnum moss as a substrate. I would not recommend that. It can kill toads by knotting up their digestion. I found that out after I had them in it for two days. luckily nothing bad happened but I took a pic of one having trouble passing some moss he ingested. It wasnt pretty and I thought it would be a good idea to take the picture for documentation of why not to use the moss.