Bunk Root or Incorrect Process? 0% Yield from 150g.

[yinuo]

Hello fellow travellers ~

The idea was to follow Cybs' Hybrid ATB 'Salt' Tek for ACRB and multiple everything in the tek x3.

Only changes to the tek were as follows

Shredded into small pieces but not quite a powder (RIP fancy food processor bowl)

Alkaline water, not distilled

Left in acid bath for 2 1/2 hours

Lid left open enough for gas to escape (didn't want any explosions)

Napathe mixture was for 20hrs before first pull with about 5 rolls

Are these things enough to cause a completely clear first pull? If so, can I salvage the mixture?

 

[Voidmatrix]

Let's see if we can iron some of this out for ya.

1. Unfortunately, it's not quite as simple as multiplying everything relative to the starting amount of material. There's some other calculations to consider pertaining more to the volume of everything (if I can find a thread detailing this I'll share it with you; I generally use the same starting amount so never change anything else. If possible take a look at the Cyb's Max Ion tek. You'll notice that the directions are the same for 50g or 100g of starting material). That said, I'm wondering if your mix may have been too aqueous.

2. Powder your bark. Easier for the process to break down cell walls to give you your treasure.

3. For me, anything other than distilled water leads to substandard yields. I find tap water to be the worst. Also, if it's alkaline, I wonder if the acid lowered the ph low enough. Did you check the ph by chance?

4. Don't know if you need the solvent to sit in there that long, but doubt it effected your yield. But roll it a little more I'd also advise.

5. Generally, unless pulling some of the soup, the solvent will be clear, unless such a low amount was used that it's saturated with DMT (probably unlikely). You won't see cloudy solvent until you've evaporated it down. Even then you may not see anything until after freeze precipitation.

6. You may be able to kind of start over, by acidifying your mix, then basing it again, then doing your pulls. But without it being powdered, your yields will likely be low.

One love

 

[yinuo]

Hey Void! Thanks so much for the reply.

1. That is something I did not think of! I will try again today with the same amount used in the tek

2. Perhaps I'll need to buy a coffee grinder. I did the free/unfreeze trick + a industry grade food processor but it just wouldn't turn into a powder.

3. That is another great point, I'll buy a digital ph checker today if I can find one for the next tek.

4.Okay, I'll add the napatha back in do a few more rolls

5. Another thing I didn't know! In the tek there is a picture of a very milky solution, so I assumed that's why a "success" looked like. But you're saying that even if it's totally clear, after freezing it could still precipitate?

6. Due to the sheer amount I tried, I think it would be best to start over. The napatha can be saved and reused, but would should I do with the solution? Simply down the drain? Anything I can do before that to make it "safer" for the drain?

Thank you so much your help Void. It's really appreciated

 

[Voidmatrix]

The pleasures mine. I'm here to help.

2. I'm wondering if you soak the bark for a while, and then put it in a blender, how that may work to help break it down for you. Some say the freeze/thaw is unnecessary, but I do it too. However, powder powder powder lol.

3. Ph straps work well too. I use both the meter and straps.

4. I'm not trying to be condescending, I am just unsure if you mean the same solvent you've already pulled. Keep that out, you may have some molecule in there. Add new solvent. Add new solvent, heat (water bath, heating elements off), add, mix, separate, pull.

5. I could be impatient, or there could be some other factor(s) involved, but my solvent at most is just kinda yellow before placing it in the freezer to crash out. Just make sure you've evaporated down sufficiently and it'll precipitate (caveat, bear in mind it's not powder, that keeps sticking in my mind as a major component to the concerns here).

6.Start a new one, but keep the old one. I'm not a chemist. There are Nexians who have broader chemistry knowledge than I (and there's one I'm confident will chime in once they see it) and they can be of help as well, providing what I couldn't.



One love

 

[yinuo]

I'll try using the distilled water called for by the tek to blend up the root!

You're not be condescending at, purely helpful. My over-eager sell definitely misunderstood and already readded the original solvent.

If the solvent isn't yellow at all, talking crystal(less) clear, there is still a chance for some result?

I'll leave it out to evap and freeze to see if anything is left.

Update ya once it's left to freeze for a day. Thanks

 

[Voidmatrix]

Hahaha, I had a feeling you did

There's no harm in trying. I have had pretty damn clear solvent precipitate some beautiful white crystals.

And yes! I love updates.

One love

 

[roninsina]

Please forgive me if I’m missing something, but it sounds as if you’re trying to do nonpolar pulls from an acidified solution without basifying. [Edit: I see I’ve misread you’re original post]

 

[Syragote]

-

 

[yinuo]

Mixed bag of news.

The first attempt yielded nothing. Not even one spec.

Performed another of the same tek with the same amount, used PH strips for testing as the tek went along. Nothing. (only 14hrs of freezing)

Performed another tek, used PH strips for tests and still nothing. (only 13hrs of freezing)

Two possibilities (i think):
1. The bark is bunk - this seems unlikely due to the source but possible.
2. The solvent I have is not actually naptha
3. Maybe the root size? It get ground up pretty small with water but maybe not as fine as possible? Still, shouldn't at least SOME come out if this was the problem?

Translating Naptha into Mandarin got me "去漬油" but it's unclear to me if the name can be used for other compounds as well.

Any other ideas?

 

[Voidmatrix]

Mixed bag of news.

The first attempt yielded nothing. Not even one spec.

Performed another of the same tek with the same amount, used PH strips for testing as the tek went along. Nothing. (only 14hrs of freezing)

Performed another tek, used PH strips for tests and still nothing. (only 13hrs of freezing)

Two possibilities (i think):
1. The bark is bunk - this seems unlikely due to the source but possible.
2. The solvent I have is not actually naptha
3. Maybe the root size? It get ground up pretty small with water but maybe not as fine as possible? Still, shouldn't at least SOME come out if this was the problem?

Translating Naptha into Mandarin got me "去漬油" but it's unclear to me if the name can be used for other compounds as well.

Any other ideas?

For my own clarity, you have three extractions going right now, correct? Do not give up on any of them, there may be a way to remedy them all.

Do me a favor, if possible, post a pic of your bark after you attempt to break it down as much as possible. Will give those of us trying to help a better frame of reference.

I'm assuming you had sufficient ph after acidification and basification...

1. Always possible. Bark can vary in DMT content based on how well it was cultivated and what time of year it was harvested. Do you know anyone who has had success with bark from the same company (note: do not give specifics about the vendor here, it's against the rules).

2. Have you done an evaporation test on your solvent? That can be very telling.

3. Bear in mind, the DMT is completely within the bark. The freeze/thaw phase helps break down cell walls to release the DMT, as does each other step up until the pull phase. If the bark isn't broken down enough, some of the inner spaces of the bark aren't being as effected in each phase to release the DMT from the plant matter.

My ideas: do an evaporation test on your solvent, try breaking down the plant matter more (something you may want to try: do everything up to the basification, then grind the bark again. It'll be softer and easier to break down after basifying), also, meant to ask, how much did you allow the solvent to evaporate after performing your pulls? If there's too much solvent, then the DMT won't crash out and collect to other molecules of DMT.

One love

 

[yinuo]

Roger that. I'll pull what bark I can out of the mixture and take a picture.

1. The vendor was a local traditional medicine shop, this country is filled with AC trees and they get it from the mountains. I was told it was harvested in the past month.

2. Yes. The evap test was successful.

3. If the bark's composition is the problem, shouldn't at lest SOME dmt be see?

I wasn't sure how evaporated they needed to be before freezing. A lot of things online said to just place them into the freezer directly.

Should I take one out of the freezer and let it evap, the return it to the freezer? The depth of each solution is about 1/3 cm.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Roger that. I'll pull what bark I can out of the mixture and take a picture.

1. The vendor was a local traditional medicine shop, this country is filled with AC trees and they get it from the mountains. I was told it was harvested in the past month.

2. Yes. The evap test was successful.

3. If the bark's composition is the problem, shouldn't at lest SOME dmt be see?

I wasn't sure how evaporated they needed to be before freezing. A lot of things online said to just place them into the freezer directly.

Should I take one out of the freezer and let it evap, the return it to the freezer? The depth of each solution is about 1/3 cm.

Eh, not necessarily. If it's a miniscule amount, it will be very difficult to see. Especially if there's a lot of solvent saturating it. How much total solvent has been used so far?

Yeah, let it evaporate some more, put it back, check, if still nothing evaporate again and refreeze. You can keep doing this until the all the solvent has evaporated. If it all evaporates and you never see anything, then unfortunately there was no DMT in that/those pulls.

One love

 

[yinuo]

The bark didn't dry out yet but wanted to provide a picture. It's clumped together due to wetness so it may look bigger than it actually is. But still not powder for sure.

The second picture is what I get after freezing for 24 hrs. However, when I let it dry there is nothing in the glass.

After freezing for 24h I removed the solvent, turned the dish upside with lid and returned to freezer for an hour.

Pulled it out and let it evap at room temp. Nothing.


What are your thoughts? Those things are just ice that formed in the glass?

 

[Woolmer]

Why are you drying your bark? This is dangerous if you are using lye as the fumes are toxic.

It's a bit confusing per your post but did you add any base?

 

[yinuo]

@Woolmer

Void wanted to see how shredded the bark was. So I dried off some bark to show him.

All the steps of the Cyb tek were followed, including using PH strips to get a ph4 during the acid bath and ph13 during base bath.

 

[dreamer042]

I'm leaning toward bunk bark, but try this as a test.

Assuming you saved it, take all your existing bark and submerge it completely in water then add an extre 3 inches/8 centimeters of water to make sure it's a nice liquidy consistency. Type of water doesn't really matter, but distilled/deionized/reverse osmosis is preferred if available. Consistency of the bark doesn't really matter here either, just use it as is.

Add Lye till you have a solid ph of 13 or 14. Add slowly, it gets hot.

Add 100 ml of your solvent. Roll the solvent thoroughly through the tea 5 times, allowing the layers to separate and settle out after each mixing. Don't worry if the solvent gets dirty or has particles suspended in it, this is just see if you can pull anything.

Draw off the solvent and evaporate completely.

If no result, pick up some standard zippo/ronsol style lighter fluid like you'd put in a zippo lighter and repeat the process of pulling with 100 ml of this solvent. If nothing, then you can reasonably assume it's bunk bark.

 

[yinuo]

Will order some light fluid (not available in stores in this country) and try that out.

It seems so strange that the bark would be bunk considering the source is the AC tree in the mountains outside of town.

Will try this and write back. Thanks dreamer

 

[Voidmatrix]

I should have been more specific, in that I didn't mean for you to dry it out. I believe Woolmer is correct, hence the burning sensation in your nose during the exothermic reaction. That's on me, my bad.

After seeing the picture of the dish and hearing that none of that white was any DMT at all (when I first saw it, I got really happy for you, but I jumped the gun), I am also leaning toward bunk bark/wrong kind of AC.

Do what dreamer042 stated, though it will use up the remainder of your bark, but at this point we're just trying to solidify if it's bunk or not. At the very least, you'll learn whether to use the same vendor again or not.

Best of luck

One love

 

[yinuo]

Not sure what burning sensation you're referring to. I've wore a mask and goggles for these and haven't had that experience.

What do you mean by wrong kind of AC? I thought there was only one type of that tree?

Can use more bark no problem, it is quite cheap here as it grows everywhere. Bought some zippo lighter fluid and am testing it out right now.

Currently (12hrs in) I see a similar pattern to before, with more smalls dots. When I blow on the solvent it becomes very milky, is that simply because of the temperature? Or does that signify the solvent is saturated?

For the last drying process I brought my room down to 18c. Is that still too hot for the evap process? Normally 30c here which I assume is much to high.

 

[Sakkadelic]

The bark in your picture looks too light in color especially if it was already based, it looks off in general. I'd say bunk bark. I once had similar blobs that also disappeared when dried and I was using a wrong acacia species