Caapi cross tolerance/potentiation psilocin

[Talkswithtrees]

I have been working with caapi for a little while now (not super long but at any rate it has been phenomenal I can definitely tell its spiritual guidance is extremely beneficial) and I have a few questions regarding its biochemistry. The skinny of it is this: I have a few different mushroom extracts that I have been qualitatively testing (with 60 day breaks so I can be absolutley sure tolerance is not an issue, yes its a long time but I prefer to err on the side of caution) to assess potency and depth of said extracts. I can tell the extracts are slightly different but Im trying to gauge in what ways.

My questions are:
1. Does caapi have a cross tolerance with other psychedelics (namely mushrooms)? Ive searched the forum and the only thing I can find is that it would possibly potentiate rather than inhibit in which case...
2. How long would I want to wait since my last time of using caapi for it to have no effect (potentiation or tolerance if thats the case) on my mushroom extract experience?
3. Would it be different with smoked (I feel like my 10x leaf -no dmt- is a good way to experience the caapi realm when I don't have time for a brew) caapi vs a tea?

Sorry this post was so drawn out and thank you in advance for your wisdom.

Hope your day is amazing fellow nexians.

 

[daspaismusflo]

I have researched this on many other forums and found a similarity among all posters in that mushrooms combined with MAOI seems to generate a huge tolerance that lasts a couple weeks to a month, some less some more depending on the person.

They also say that the trip is indistinguiishable from MAOI + DMT (ayahuasca) yet shrooms alone feels different to DMT. You take half the amount of mushrooms when combining with an MAOI, but if you already took mushrooms and a MAOI a week ago you could probably just take a standard mushroom dose with MAOI because of the tolerance.

You will still be able to trip don't get me wrong there, it's just that you may only feel half the effects or have to take double the amount to get to the same place, leaving it 60 days will provide you with more of that euphoric feeling that comes when you have not taken it for a while but at least 3-4 days and you can still feel something if you re-dose.

Not sure what your 10x enhanced leaf is as you said it does not contain dmt, if it contains caapi alkaloids harmine & harmaline it is that same as taking it oral only it last a lot less of a time.

Caapi has a reverse tolerance (becoems stronger the more u take it), and dmt has no tolerance or slightly reverse tolerance, mushrooms are tolerance heavy.

 

[ThatDirtyHippy]

I'm a little confused.

Why would an MAOi cross tolerate with any psychedelic? Psychedelics activate (generally) serotonin receptors in the brain. MAOis inhibit the action of the enzyme MAO, its two completely different drug actions. MAOis would potentiate psychedelics if anything. That's why just DMT is like 15 ish minutes of hyperspace but that time increases significantly when something such as caapi or serian rue is added.

 

[Gone-and-Back]

Using harmalas is not going to have a cross tolerance with psychedelics. As stated above, some have found that harmalas themselves actually have a reverse tolerance. The more you take them in a row, the less and less you seem to need.

When it comes to taking mushrooms with an MAOI such as harmalas, it will greatly increase the effects of the mushrooms. Depending on dosage of the MAOI, I would start with a quarter of your usual mushroom dose. Full inhibition with a quarter of your normal dose will put you very far.

If you have been using MAOIs for a while before the mushrooms, and are worried about them increasing the effects of the mushrooms, I would say stop usage and wait about 24 hours to take the mushrooms. By that point the harmalas should not be active anymore.

Taking harmalas with the mushrooms also does not cause the tolerance to mushrooms to last any longer then it normally would. Recommending that someone double the dose of mushrooms along with harmala usage if they had done a harmalas and mushroom dose within the last week is a dangerous statement. You could very well end up way further then what you wanted and have a very bad experience. Please do not do this. Harmalas and mushrooms is not a mixture to take lightly, it deserves understanding and respect and can easily become way to much.

 

[ThatDirtyHippy]

Using harmalas is not going to have a cross tolerance with psychedelics. As stated above, some have found that harmalas themselves actually have a reverse tolerance. The more you take them in a row, the less and less you seem to need.

When it comes to taking mushrooms with an MAOI such as harmalas, it will greatly increase the effects of the mushrooms. Depending on dosage of the MAOI, I would start with a quarter of your usual mushroom dose. Full inhibition with a quarter of your normal dose will put you very far.

If you have been using MAOIs for a while before the mushrooms, and are worried about them increasing the effects of the mushrooms, I would say stop usage and wait about 24 hours to take the mushrooms. By that point the harmalas should not be active anymore.

Taking harmalas with the mushrooms also does not cause the tolerance to mushrooms to last any longer then it normally would. Recommending that someone double the dose of mushrooms along with harmala usage if they had done a harmalas and mushroom dose within the last week is a dangerous statement. You could very well end up way further then what you wanted and have a very bad experience. Please do not do this. Harmalas and mushrooms is not a mixture to take lightly, it deserves understanding and respect and can easily become way to much.

This is what I thought, listen to this guy.

 

[Talkswithtrees]

Excellent thanks for your replies.
Quick question.

As stated above, some have found that harmalas themselves actually have a reverse tolerance. The more you take them in a row, the less and less you seem to need.

So theoretically you could take harmalas everyday without diminishing ANY of the effects?
Fascinating! I had read that when I looked for an answer to my question but it still seemed to be up in the air and not definite, not too mention too good to be true...
Would you also need less to activate (oral) dmt?

I was aware of psilohuasca and I really want to try it because I love both substances separately. However given the nature of my testing these extracts a combination would be detrimental in determining potency.

Why would an MAOi cross tolerate with any psychedelic? Psychedelics activate (generally) serotonin receptors in the brain. MAOis inhibit the action of the enzyme MAO, its two completely different drug actions. MAOis would potentiate psychedelics if anything. That's why just DMT is like 15 ish minutes of hyperspace but that time increases significantly when something such as caapi or serian rue is added.

This is what I thought. But I couldnt find any info on the topic so I couldnt be sure. Also I didnt know if there were any other alkaloids that did other things than inhibited mono amine or if the harmalas themselves did anything other than inhibit mono amine.
Or if it potentiated it when taken at the same time but would give diminished effects later if that makes any sense.

 

[Ashakma]

So theoretically you could take harmalas everyday without diminishing ANY of the effects?
Fascinating! I had read that when I looked for an answer to my question but it still seemed to be up in the air and not definite, not too mention too good to be true...
Would you also need less to activate (oral) dmt?

As far as I know about pharmalogical MAOI (MAOI-A selective, aka moclamine), taken on a regular basis, there is a saturation of first pass metabolism (in the leaver). This way, the plasma concentration tends to increase and reach a plateau after one week. That's why during this week we can talk of reversed tolerance (and even why when used as an antidepressant, full effects appear one week later).
Harmaline working on the same way, I won't be surprised to be the same.

If it helps

 

[daspaismusflo]

Taking harmalas with the mushrooms also does not cause the tolerance to mushrooms to last any longer then it normally would. Recommending that someone double the dose of mushrooms along with harmala usage if they had done a harmalas and mushroom dose within the last week is a dangerous statement. You could very well end up way further then what you wanted and have a very bad experience. Please do not do this. Harmalas and mushrooms is not a mixture to take lightly, it deserves understanding and respect and can easily become way to much.

I read that that is what people do on shroomery if they want to trip the same amount in one week, they take maoi on the second time obviously because of their tolerance that wears off in a week or two.

im not too sure about my tolerance particularly after 5 days. Everyone is different. Personally i think i have to wait 2 full weeks. I had 30gs fresh one nighr which was my first shroom trip in years. It was a good level 3 trip. 6 days later i had 52gs from the same batch & it was nowhere near what it should have been.

Wait 7-14 days

Tolerance is pretty individual... Some folks maybe be 4-5 days to reset to zero... Some 14-21 days..

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