Caapi extraction gone awry? Need some advice to salvage this.

[NoMeNoYou]

Well ultimately I didn't expect my first extraction to go perfectly, I'm not really sure how to proceed. It would be a shame for these vines to have made the journey all the way from the Amazon just to wind up as a failed experiment.

Steps I've taken:
-Shredded and then powdered 133g of Caapi Red.
-Ran it through the herbal peculator with ~20L of water.
-I didn't have measuring equipment for 25ml/L vinegar so used more to be safe.
-Reduced the 20L down to about 500ml on the stove.
-Drank 1/4 volume by weight to see what a straight caapi extract was like (light effects).
-Added 10g of Lye to 100ml of water and pored it in.
-Stirred for five minutes, color change occurred but nothing really precipitated.
-Assuming the liquid was too viscous I added another 150ml of water, and a bit more Lye.
-Left in the fridge for 12 hours to see if there was any sort of difference.
-Two distinct layers have formed but still nothing really precipitating on the bottom.
-The more time I give it the more the layers seem to separate but it's very slow, it's been close to 24 hours now.

What I think the issue is:
-Reduced the brew too much and it might be too viscous for the precipitates to separate efficienty.
-Given I used more vinegar than likely required, I may have not added enough Lye (~15g at this point 99% Lye)

The steps I'm thinking of taking:
-Add ~500ml of spring water and more Lye - see if it begins to separate.
-If that fails I'll go ahead and run it through a coffee filter or 10 and keep whatever is formed on the coffee filters and go from there to acidifying/filter and discard, then basify, filter and keep.
-Getting some distilled water and using my PH meter to check the brews and be a bit more scientific about this.

I don't think I've lost the chance to get the Harmalas out, but I'd rather have someone with experience go over my proposal before I go ruining it by playing around.

Bliss, Love, and Eternal peace.
Nobody

 

[Sakkadelic]

when you added lye did you see freebase crashing out instantly(in the color of the third pic) then dissolving back into solution?
if not then there is not much harmalas there

 

[concombres]

Looks like there were not much alkaloids in there. I dont have any experience using the herbal percolator but it could be that somehow you didnt pull much from the plant matter.

For future refernce, it is always better to first get small amounts & test for potency before getting a whole big log. That way your not out much if the material turns out weak.

 

[NoMeNoYou]

Hmmm that's unfortunate indeed, no there was no similar reaction to the pic. Just a color change and it stayed as is.

I can't be too upset, I didn't work hard for the Caapi and still have a good 870 grams left. I will try next week with another 100 grams doing the traditional 3x3hrs boil. In a worst case scenario I will process the entirety of the remaining caapi and see if I can pull anything off that.

The bag I have seems to be very mixed, it's not shredded it's all different vines. For all I know it's not legitimate Caapi, I posted a pic of it in another topic and another new member chimed in, if one of you doesn't mind taking a look I'd appreciate it:

Is my Caapi legit? Also questions about caapi tea vs extracts. - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Thanks for the comments!

Peace, Love, and Eternal Bliss.
Nobody

 

[concombres]

I steer clear of any vine but yellow for this very reason. I got some red vine once that looked like the larger vine you have on the right. It looks similar to the untrained eye but take note in the shape of the patterns in the cross section, the outer appearance of the vine, the number of sections in the cross section, how the center is shaped, etc.

Unfortunately you have to be real picky about vine. If you type yellow banisteriopsis caapi into the search engine & click into images you will see what i mean. You will also see how shady people can be by the pictures of vine with the cross section sanded off.

The stuff that has consistantly yeilded me a decent amount of harmine has always had more tear shaped sectors than round like you have there.

 

[NoMeNoYou]

Honestly from all the pictures I have absolutely no idea what legitimate caapi looks like, there is so much variation between the photos. Even looking at successful extraction logs on other forums some people start with caapi that looks like mine, some with caapi that looks completely different, and both still wind up with harmalas. The only thing that seems uniformly wrong about my Caapi is the large centre sections which most photos don't seem to have.

I guess the only way I'll know is to process it all and see what happens. If I get zero harmalas then I'll have to learn to source better Caapi. Maybe go over to Naked and Afraid and see if they'll send me to the amazon.

concombres do you mind uploading a few photos of your caapi (if you have some) so I could get a baseline of what "real" caapi looks like? Right now I only have the errowid pictures to go off of and even those aren't very clear.

Thanks for the replies.

Peace, Love, and Eternal Bliss.
Nobody

 

[An_Observer]

Might want to read the rules as to avoid annoying some of the long standing members. We don't source materials/compounds and nowhere sells them as far as we are concerned. Only things we discuss the sale/sourcing of would be live plants or viable seeds.

 

[NoMeNoYou]

I have read the rules thanks, at this point it's probably good for me to re-read them each day so I don't forget or fall back on bad practices. It's been a few days and reading that rule I only remembered not mentioning the vendor, or discussing it being delivered or price, I see you are correct and it clearly states no discussion on trades so I will go back and edit my posts, and omit that topic in the future.

That being said, unless you're a mod or one of those long standing members you might want to avoid policing people. You're as fresh off the boat as I am. Not trying to be disrespectful, but while getting started in a new community you always have a period of getting to know what rules are black and white, and what are gray area, and just generally forgetting from time to time. If my posts are ever damaging to the community I expect I'll hear about it from someone with authority in the benevolent monarchy. :roll:

With Love
Nobody