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Cacti Alcohol Extraction

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Oneiroi

Oneiroi

Tim
I'm interested in trying out cacti for the first time. Does anyone have experience with using an everclear or isopropyl extraction? I realize that this won't produce as pure a mescaline product as an A/B extraction, but I hear the extra alkaloids in the plants produce a nice trip.

How long will the extraction stay good for? Will it rot or go bad? And will an extraction like this reduce the stomach discomfort that is common to cacti?

The alcohol extraction is simple. (I haven't tested iso alcohol so can't endorse it.)

-Soak the powdered cactus in a strong alcohol such as Everclear (190proof) or Bacardi 151. Use just enough to cover the powder plus an inch or more in a jar that you can shake up.

-Shake it periodically throughout the day. Every 24 hrs drain off the alcohol and set it aside. Continue this process untill the color is no longer changing, and it pours off clear.

-Combine the extractions into one tub and evaporate the alcohol using low heat or a fan. You're left with a thick tar like substance that contains the alkaloids.

Always remember your starting dry weight to better be able to judge your doses from the finished product. Example: 100 dry grams is enough for two people. 50 grams is a good dose for one trip.

This alcohol tek basically produces freebase mescaline. When it hits your stomach, though, it forms mescaline hcl by combining with all of the natural hydrochloric acid in you stomach. The reason for the alcohol extraction technique is simplicity, not efficiency. It's super easy and virtually foolproof.
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I wanted to share a few points:

1, it will not produce freebase mescaline, mescaline occurs (in the cacti) in salt forms that are typically soluble in alcohol and you will not make the mescaline freebase simply using alcohol to soak it. You need to manipulate the pH to do that, but there is not a good reason to do this with an alcohol based approach.

2, absorption of alcohol and extraction is less efficient with everclear and far more effective using 70% (140proof), this has to do with the ability of the alcohol to penetrate cellular tissues and such.

3, use of microwaves for extraction is extremely fast and extremely efficient, as in 90+ %
alkaloid recovery in under 10 minutes is not unrealistic, I have used this method, microwaving cactus in alcohol for a few minutes to go from cactus to an active shot in under an hour. This could be dangerous with the wrong set-up, but you can research microwave assisted extraction to learn more. I used a plastic dish with a lid, this really cuts down on the fumes...

4, if you get strong cactus 50grams might be too much, at the stronger levels such as with outer tissue of some popular clones this could have around 2 grams of mescaline... be careful if you don't have much information about the cactus you have,

5, there is not much that can be done about nausea, but it does not always occur. I have seen it occur and not occur with pretty much every preparation you can make, tea, tincture, whole cactus, dried cactus, tar, crystal etc

6, I hope this helps, alcohol works well for this, some of the first westerners to study the activity of peyote were taking a tincture of it made with alcohol.

Also you don't have to worry about waiting for a color to leach... some people test bitterness to see, but since cacti can contain phenolic alkaloids this is not a very good test because there can be bitter things in cacti that are not water soluble and so no matter how long you soak or boil some strains there can be some residual bitterness.
 
AlbertKLloyd said:
I wanted to share a few points:

1, it will not produce freebase mescaline, mescaline occurs (in the cacti) in salt forms that are typically soluble in alcohol and you will not make the mescaline freebase simply using alcohol to soak it. You need to manipulate the pH to do that, but there is not a good reason to do this with an alcohol based approach.

2, absorption of alcohol and extraction is less efficient with everclear and far more effective using 70% (140proof), this has to do with the ability of the alcohol to penetrate cellular tissues and such.

3, use of microwaves for extraction is extremely fast and extremely efficient, as in 90+ %
alkaloid recovery in under 10 minutes is not unrealistic, I have used this method, microwaving cactus in alcohol for a few minutes to go from cactus to an active shot in under an hour. This could be dangerous with the wrong set-up, but you can research microwave assisted extraction to learn more. I used a plastic dish with a lid, this really cuts down on the fumes...

4, if you get strong cactus 50grams might be too much, at the stronger levels such as with outer tissue of some popular clones this could have around 2 grams of mescaline... be careful if you don't have much information about the cactus you have,

5, there is not much that can be done about nausea, but it does not always occur. I have seen it occur and not occur with pretty much every preparation you can make, tea, tincture, whole cactus, dried cactus, tar, crystal etc

6, I hope this helps, alcohol works well for this, some of the first westerners to study the activity of peyote were taking a tincture of it made with alcohol.

Also you don't have to worry about waiting for a color to leach... some people test bitterness to see, but since cacti can contain phenolic alkaloids this is not a very good test because there can be bitter things in cacti that are not water soluble and so no matter how long you soak or boil some strains there can be some residual bitterness.
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nice reply buddy!
 
heres what ive done before stepping up to the a/b

powder cacti
soak in warm alcohol for a day ( a drop of vinegar in each soak wont hurt but may bind more into salt)
perform 3-5 different soaks
combine soaks
filter
evap on low/no heat

consume approximately 2-4x black sticky resin

it never bothered anyones stomach from my experiences
it is full spectrum
you will love it
make sure to fast for the day though
 
Thank you for the information guys. I am planning on using 80 proof everclear for the extraction. Mew, for your type of extraction, is it possible store the resin that is obtained? Or will it need to be consumed soon after it is prepared? Ideally, I'd like to prepare enough for around 3 trips that would be fairly spaced out (several months apart). Also, is it necessary to dry and powder the cactus beforehand? I plan on buying fresh cactus so could I just cut it up and soak it in alcohol without drying it?

Also, would it be safe to buy the cuttings from any botanical site (ie would they be psychoactive)? I plan on just going on the cheapest vendor. I've heard of people getting bunk cactus before though.
 
drying the cactus is no big deal, heck you can use a box fan on its side between too chairs and let the turbine dry it over night if you cut it into strips

the idea is to use as little water as possible in your cactus and solvent, so a high proof alcohol is suggested while using dry cacti so that it evaporates quicker, and yes the resin is good to keep as long as you like

the more water you use the more like houses resin tek youll be attempting, which is fine too but it wont pull as much as fast nor evap as fast
 
as far as vendors go, get fresh t bridgesii and prepare it yourself

do the work, its worth the time, i promise you
 
Thanks mew! I didn't realize drying the cactus was so easy. So I hear you can put it in the oven to dry it. I plan on cutting it in pieces and putting it in the oven at around 120 fahrenheit for a while.

I'm really excited about this... ordering my cactus tonight. :D
 
I keep resin in the freezer. I've seen it get moldy if it isn't dried really, really well.

Thanks for the tips Albert!

I finally got around to trying the microwave alcohol extraction, and it worked very well. Room temperature soaks took days if not weeks to get the sludge this brown. I did three washes with 70% isopropyl, with around 250mL each time, on 50g, at two minutes in the microwave, in an isopropyl HDPE bottle. The bottle would get fairly hot and swell some, but nothing serious. I then cut a hole in another cap for filtering. I put a cotton ball in the neck with a paper filter over the top, then the cap, and it took some squeezing but it worked pretty well overall, better than gravity that's for sure. The third wash I didn't let it cool down much and it filtered a lot easier. I filtered again through a funnel with a cotton ball and it came out emerald green and clear. I left the sludge to soak overnight, to do one more round later to see what is left, but I think I got most of it. Next time I think I will do two or three times in the microwave, letting it cool in between before filtering, then I might not need to do as many washes, and with less solvent.

I've done all the methods except for phlux's real a/b and I'm happy with simple alcohol resins.
 
AlbertKLloyd said:
I've roasted the cacti at 250F in the oven, browning them, no loss of activity that I can tell
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+1
for a test i once baked some very clean crystals at 300*f for about an hour w no loss of activity or consistency(ymmv w/citric or acetic though)
 
I just got my t.bridgesii and proceeded to cut up one cutting into small cubes, which I'm drying now with a fan. In one of the guides for working with fresh cactus, its mentioned that the wooden core should be removed. I didn't see any wooden core in my cactus and I didn't remove anything from the center. Am I doing this right or should I have removed the white center?
 
Oneiroi,
Removing it is just to avoid having to deal with too much material, you're fine letting it, the core won't spoil anything.
 
acetone i've heard is a no go. a FOAF has done successful work with even 70% isocol brand rubbing alcohol available at most Aus chemists using the method described in the OP
 
I noticed while drying my cactus bits that some small black dots have started appearing on several of the pieces. I assume this is mold. The pieces are not yet completely dry, I expect it will take a few more days. Should I worry about removing the bits of mold before I start to powder the pieces, or should I just powder the bits including the mold and use it all in my extraction.
 
Oneiroi said:
I noticed while drying my cactus bits that some small black dots have started appearing on several of the pieces. I assume this is mold. The pieces are not yet completely dry, I expect it will take a few more days. Should I worry about removing the bits of mold before I start to powder the pieces, or should I just powder the bits including the mold and use it all in my extraction.
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Hydrogen peroxide can be used to kill the mold, just some light misting is all you should need. But if you're getting mold you need to get more air flow going. Once the surface moisture is gone, it can be dried more slowly without worries.
 
it means the material you're working with has black rot, commonly caused by over watering. even in live specimens it's pretty much impossible to be rid of. i've heard rumors about people intentionally infecting their material with black rot during the stressing period before harvest to increase yield, but i have no experience with this. i do know for certain that every monstrose bridgesii clone i've seen has it to some degree.. my advice is do not spray your material with peroxide, it won't help. in live cacti the most common method of controlling it is by amputating the affected section and dusting it with sulfur. your best option is to oven dry. mescaline degrades at ~200 degrees, so it's pretty safe
 
Well I found out my coffee grinder is officially broken, so I wasn't able to powderize the chunks. I ended up mincing the chunks using a knife and tossing it in everclear. I figure since the cactus isn't finely ground, I should let it soak for much longer than the suggested 2 days.
 
Really interesting thread.

I'm considering doing an extraction in the near future and I'm wondering what the benefit (in terms of final product) is with an alcohol extraction over a more involved A/B like heavenlypursuits tek where the alkaloids aren't further purified.

Is it just a matter of ease, time & materials or is there a difference in the alkaloids produced, if so what?

Also with this tek how much end product would you be left with, from say 100g dry cactus?

Thanks
 
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