Cactus alcohol extraction - Isopropyl vs. Ethanol

[Tribal]

Hi all!

SWIM was recently experimenting on alcohol extractions on some Peruvian Torch. Two compare the results between using isopropyl and ethanol extractions, he did side by side extractions using both. He put 100g of powdered torch in one jar and another 100g in another jar. Into one jar he doubled the volume of cactus with ethanol, and used an equal amount of isopropyl in the other. He let both sit for two days, shaking frequently, and decanted into separate bowls for evaporated.

After evaporation, the methanol yeilded far more green colored material than did the isopropyl. The product from the isopropyl was also gummy, unlike the crystalline extract from the ethanol.

So, SWIM is curious. Is the isopropyl a cleaner extract or is it a poorer solvent and will require more pulls to extract all the goodies?

Additionally, is there a simple way to clean up the extracts to remove the chlorophyll and other nasties? SWIM doesn't need to end up with pure alks, but cleaner than nasty green would be nice.

 

[Phlux-]

off the top of my head id rate meoh would pull more quicker - but would yeild a weightier product
id say go hcl then acetone bomb it out.

 

[actualfactual]

I've done them both and I can't tell a difference in effects.. the extract looked the same as well but I didn't weigh them..

I prefer using methanol because it is a cheaper solvent and I can get it pure and the highest iso I can get is 91%

Next time I do an alcohol extraction I'm gonna try your new idea Phlux.

 

[Tribal]

SWIM read here: The Mescaline Extraction Thread - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus in the mescaline extraction thread that mescaline citrate can be freeze precipitated from water.

So, could SWIM dissolve the alcohol extracts in water with citric acid, and put in the freezer to crash out mescaline citrate? That would be pretty awesome, and give a much better idea of what is actually being yielded from all this.

 

[Adivino]

Have you also tried ethanol, Tribal? According to the Merck index, mescaline is very soluble in it, and it is non-toxic (as opposed to methanol) and available in 96% concentration. I plan to pre-extract with ethanol and I want to know how feasible it is.

 

[Phlux-]

i would go for water as the starting solvent - as mesc is so damn soluble in it.
a fat pile of mesc hcl disolves in a few drops of water
u can wash mesc hcl with minimal ethanol - only very little disolves.

 

[Tribal]

My apologies, this was done with ethanol, NOT methanol. I've edited the original post to correct this mistake.

Well, actually, if you want to get technical, it was with denatured ethanol, which actually does contain a bit of methanol.

 

[Phlux-]

why not mix the cactus powder with calcium hydroxide and some water to make a paste then pull 6 times with meoh/ipa/etoh - acidify with hcl then evap - redisolve in water, filter and bomb for cellulose - then evap more and bomb for mesc.

id imagine the freebase is more soluble in the alcahols - and if u dont dry it - no mesc carbonate - the water mixes with the first pull - therefore following pulls would be close to clean alcahol.

from merck 13 (eveyone needs this on their pc)

Monograph Number: 5932
Title: Mescaline
CAS Registry Number: 54-04-6
CAS Name: 3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzeneethanamine
Additional Names: 3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine; mezcaline
Molecular Formula: C11H17NO3
Molecular Weight: 211.26.
Percent Composition: C 62.54%, H 8.11%, N 6.63%, O 22.72%
Literature References: Psychotomimetic alkaloid isolated from peyote (mescal buttons), the flowering heads of Lophophora williamsii (Lemaire) Coult., Cactaceae. Isoln: A. Heffter, Ber. 29, 221 (1896). Structure and synthesis: E. Späth, Monatsh. 40, 129 (1919); K. H. Slotta, H. Heller, Ber. 63, 3029 (1930); E. Späth, F. Becke, Monatsh. 66, 327 (1935); M. U. Tsao, J. Am. Chem. Soc. 73, 5495 (1951); K. Banholzer et al., Helv. Chim. Acta 35, 1577 (1952). Novel synthesis: M. N. Aboul-Enein, A. I. Eid, Acta Pharm. Suec. 16, 267 (1979). MS determn: S. P. Jindal, T. Lutz, Eur. J. Mass Spectrom. Biochem. Med. Environ. Res. 2, 117 (1982). Pharmacokinetics in rabbits: C. Van Peteghem et al., Eur. J. Drug Metab. Pharmacokinet. 7, 1 (1982). Mode of action study: M. E. Trulson et al., Eur. J. Pharmacol. 96, 151 (1983). Use in evaluating serotonin S2 antagonists: C. J. E. Niemegeers et al., Drug Dev. Res. 3, 123 (1983). Evaluation of use with chlorpromazine, q.v., in various psychoses: H. C. B. Denber, S. Merlis: J. Nerv. Ment. Dis. 122, 463 (1955). Toxicity data: L. B. Speck, J. Pharmacol. Exp. Ther. 119, 78 (1957); H. F. Hardman et al., Toxicol. Appl. Pharmacol. 25, 299 (1973). Reviews: A. R. Patel, Progress in Drug Research vol. 11, E. Jucker, Ed. (Birkhaüser Verlag, Basel, 1968) pp 11-47; G. J. Kapadia, M. B. E. Fayez, J. Pharm. Sci. 59, 1699-1727 (1970).
Properties: Crystals, mp 35-36°. bp12 180°. Moderately sol in water; sol in alcohol, chloroform, benzene. Practically insol in ether, petr ether. Takes up CO2 from the air and forms a crystalline carbonate. LD50 i.p. in rats: 370 mg/kg (Speck).
Melting point: mp 35-36°
Boiling point: bp12 180°
Toxicity data: LD50 i.p. in rats: 370 mg/kg (Speck)

Derivative Type: Hydrochloride
Molecular Formula: C11H17NO3.HCl
Molecular Weight: 247.72.
Percent Composition: C 53.33%, H 7.32%, N 5.65%, O 19.38%, Cl 14.31%
Properties: Needles, mp 181°. Sol in water, alcohol. LD50 in mice, rats, guinea pigs (mg/kg): 212, 132, 328 i.p. (Hardman).
Melting point: mp 181°
Toxicity data: LD50 in mice, rats, guinea pigs (mg/kg): 212, 132, 328 i.p. (Hardman)

Derivative Type: Sulfate dihydrate
Molecular Formula: (C11H17NO3)2.H2SO4.2H2O
Molecular Weight: 556.63.
Percent Composition: C 47.47%, H 7.24%, N 5.03%, O 34.49%, S 5.76%
Properties: Prisms, mp 183-186°. Sol in hot water, methanol; sparingly sol in cold water, ethanol.
Melting point: mp 183-186°

Derivative Type: Acid sulfate
Molecular Formula: C11H17NO3.H2SO4
Molecular Weight: 309.34.
Percent Composition: C 42.71%, H 6.19%, N 4.53%, O 36.20%, S 10.37%
Properties: Crystals, mp 158°.
Melting point: mp 158°

Derivative Type: N-Benzoylmescaline
Properties: Needles from aq alc, mp 121°. Very sol in alcohol, ether.
Melting point: mp 121°

Derivative Type: N-Methylmescaline
Properties: Occurs naturally, bp 130-140°.
Boiling point: bp 130-140°

Derivative Type: N-Acetylmescaline
Properties: Occurs naturally, mp 94°.
Melting point: mp 94°

NOTE: This is a controlled substance (hallucinogen): 21 CFR, 1308.11.

 

[Adivino]

Phlux, I'm thinking of 96% ethanol for a pre-extraction because it would minimize the cell swelling, which is bad. Also, mescaline hydrochloride is soluble in ethanol, not very little. You yourself copied that from the index.

 

[Tribal]

Adivino, that is exactly what SWIM was thinking. The swelling and boogers are terrible with SWIM's cactus.

One question though. Alcohol will pull directly from raw powdered cactus, correct? No need to basify first, is that right?

SWIM decided to try crashing out citrates after disolving extract in citric acidified water and see how that goes. Will post results once finished.

 

[Adivino]

Tribal, I hypothesize that extracting with basified ethanol (given that the ethanol is not dry) should be better because mescaline is supposedly present in some salt form inside the plant (although nobody knows for sure what salt). And said salt is of unknown solubility in ethanol.

The best thing that you can do now is to look up some scientific papers involving isolation of mescaline from cacti and see what they use. I've read some papers that pre-extracted with methanol in a Soxhlet. I've also read a comparison of different concentrations of ethanol in regards of alkaloid extraction. I don't have time to cite them now, but searching on Google Scholar phrases such as "[m]ethanol mescaline", "soxhlet mescaline", "mescaline chloroform" should bring up some interesting reports of already done (and possibly good) procedures.

I managed to copy the following that could be of help:

A fresh sample of chlorenchyma from the green outer cortex of the stem of each Echinopsis species to be assayed was weighed, sliced and cut into cubes ca. 1 cm3, desiccated for ca. 30 h at room temperature, and weighed in the dried state. The dried material was finely ground with mortar and pestle. Two (2.0) grams of the dry, ground chlorenchyma tissue was extracted with methanol in a Soxhlet apparatus for 8 h at 40 ◦C. The extract was evaporated to dryness at 40 ◦C in a rotary evaporator, redissolved in 150mL of distilled water, and acidified with concentrated hydrochloric acid to pH 3.0. he acidified aqueous extract was defatted twice with 50mL of dichloromethane. The aqueous layer was alkalinized to pH 12.0 with 5N odium hydroxide (the pKa of the protonated amino group of mescaline being 9.5), and extracted twice with 50mL dichloromethane. The aqueous layer was discarded, and the dichloromethane evaporated to dryness. The extract was redissolved in 10.0mL ofmethanol, filtered through a 0.2-um micropore filter to remove particulates, and stored in a glass vial at 4 ◦C, pending high-pressure liquid chromatography (HPLC).

 

[Phlux-]

seemed far far more sol in water than ethanol
the cells not swelling is a definite plus tho

 

[Tribal]

Precipitating mesc-citrate from water was a grand failure. Something precipitated from the water initially when SWIM mixed the alcohol extract into citric acid acidified water. SWIM heated the solution to see if the precipitate would dissolve, and it did, but nothing will precipitate back out again once the solution is cooled in the freezer. It's been three days and still nothing has come out. I found an old post from 69ron saying that he also had problems precipitating mesc-citrate out of water.

So now, SWIM isn't sure what to do. He's thinking of just evaporating all of the water, but there will be a lot of residual citric acid which would leave him worse off than having the raw alcohol extract that he started with.

Phlux, if SWIM acidifies the solution with HCl and then adds acetone mesc-HCl should drop out, correct? What would be the ratio of acetone to aqueous solution?

 

[dg]

Precipitating mesc-citrate from water was a grand failure. Something precipitated from the water initially when SWIM mixed the alcohol extract into citric acid acidified water. SWIM heated the solution to see if the precipitate would dissolve, and it did, but nothing will precipitate back out again once the solution is cooled in the freezer. It's been three days and still nothing has come out. I found an old post from 69ron saying that he also had problems precipitating mesc-citrate out of water.

So now, SWIM isn't sure what to do. He's thinking of just evaporating all of the water, but there will be a lot of residual citric acid which would leave him worse off than having the raw alcohol extract that he started with.

Phlux, if SWIM acidifies the solution with HCl and then adds acetone mesc-HCl should drop out, correct? What would be the ratio of acetone to aqueous solution?

its too water soluble.
might crash out w/o water.

 

[Tribal]

So, SWIM added acetone to the citric acid solution after reading that mesc-citrate is not soluble in acetone, and as long as the experiment is messed up, it may as well be REALLY messed up, right? He added roughly 2:1 acetone to the aqueous solution and then put it back in the freezer.

With the added acetone the solution doesn't freeze, and there ARE some precipitates forming. SWIM has no idea what exactly is precipitating yet, but will relatively soon when he gets a chance to collect and assay them, but for now he's just going to let it sit for awhile and see what forms.

 

[Tribal]

The precipitates were strained and collected in a coffee filter. There really wasn't very much there once it dried. Well, you win some, you loose some. SWIM is going to evaporate everything and start over.

 

[Virola78]

The precipitates were strained and collected in a coffee filter. There really wasn't very much there once it dried. Well, you win some, you loose some. SWIM is going to evaporate everything and start over.

perhaps evaporate most but not all water, so one can add acetone untill the mescaline starts to precipitate, while the citric acid stays in solution.

I think (wrong again? ) Phlux- tek doesnt bomb with acetone to crash out the mescaline. His tek crashes mostly other stuff. I will have to read it again to make sure because im bit confused maybe, since i dont know now if i am sure about the confusion or to what degree. For all i say but dont know, it could very well be a fair bit more than a bit maybe.

anyway, at the moment im guessing what you crashed out is not mescaline.
I think only if the concentration of acetone is high (and perhaps cold) enough (95%>?) the mescaline will crash.

Does that make any sense?

 

[dg]

So, SWIM added acetone to the citric acid solution after reading that mesc-citrate is not soluble in acetone, and as long as the experiment is messed up, it may as well be REALLY messed up, right? He added roughly 2:1 acetone to the aqueous solution and then put it back in the freezer.

With the added acetone the solution doesn't freeze, and there ARE some precipitates forming. SWIM has no idea what exactly is precipitating yet, but will relatively soon when he gets a chance to collect and assay them, but for now he's just going to let it sit for awhile and see what forms.

water and acetone are miscible, and citrate salts are too water soluble for this to work, tried all sorts of ways to crash out citrate salts w/o luck

ended up evaping to orange rock candy crystals

 

[narmz]

Evap it all and wash it with anhydrous acetone. The acetone will dissolve the excess citric acid, but leave the mescaline citrate behind. (I'm not stating this for fact, it has just been SWIM's experience that this works, and you seem to be in a pickle)