polytrip said:
Nope, it's never been used as a decorative plant to my knowledge. Maybe a very small handful of people use it that way, I'm not sure... but the tremendous majority of people who grow salvia do so because it is psychoactivity.
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Canada considers salvia ban
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Nope, it's never been used as a decorative plant to my knowledge. Maybe a very small handful of people use it that way, I'm not sure... but the tremendous majority of people who grow salvia do so because it is psychoactivity.
Lavos
Rising Star
I disagree with the above. Are you being sarcastic? I've seen friends grandmothers growing it and seen it planted as part of landscaping in nice neighborhoods. But maybe my climate is more suited for it than yours.
Perhaps, with the letters, a more wholesome approach would help. On a cultural, human level, we need to encourage them to think about the implications of fully prohibiting a plant. Aside from the fact that history shows it does not reduce use. What is the logic behind stopping people from working with plants? We're not talking about extracting ricen, we're talking about inner meditation with supplementation from plants.
We can argue that saliva is used medicinally, that when it is used recklessly that's when it becomes obscene but still hardly ever damaging. I think that many 'things' and actions could be described as dangerous when they are not. So maybe attack the idea of banning plants? (I don't usually do this sort of thing, not sure what constitutes 'sound logic' when dealing with these folks.) Knives are dangerous, but essential tools, cars are dangerous, essential tools, hell dogs can be dangerous, essential though too. So why not salvia? All of the above have killed people, yet you can buy any of that right around the corner, or in town.
But 1) do the politicians care at all? or do they have hidden agendas? 2) do they realize that the difference in respectful use and reckless use is the difference in someone who drinks a little and doesn't suffer for it, and someone who drinks a fifth every night, cursing the family and getting in the car plastered? There are all levels of use and abuse, so what exactly are they afraid of?
Honestly, (im-pessimistic-o) it's a money game, not enough salvia users to see decent taxes, but enough to criminalize and throw in the system. Like pipes where I live. They sell them in stores, legally, yet you can be charged with paraphernalia as soon as you walk out the door. They want taxes, and more taxes. Sounds lame and anti-climatic, I know. If you are growing a plant, that has potential medical value, you are a threat. There.
Perhaps, with the letters, a more wholesome approach would help. On a cultural, human level, we need to encourage them to think about the implications of fully prohibiting a plant. Aside from the fact that history shows it does not reduce use. What is the logic behind stopping people from working with plants? We're not talking about extracting ricen, we're talking about inner meditation with supplementation from plants.
We can argue that saliva is used medicinally, that when it is used recklessly that's when it becomes obscene but still hardly ever damaging. I think that many 'things' and actions could be described as dangerous when they are not. So maybe attack the idea of banning plants? (I don't usually do this sort of thing, not sure what constitutes 'sound logic' when dealing with these folks.) Knives are dangerous, but essential tools, cars are dangerous, essential tools, hell dogs can be dangerous, essential though too. So why not salvia? All of the above have killed people, yet you can buy any of that right around the corner, or in town.
But 1) do the politicians care at all? or do they have hidden agendas? 2) do they realize that the difference in respectful use and reckless use is the difference in someone who drinks a little and doesn't suffer for it, and someone who drinks a fifth every night, cursing the family and getting in the car plastered? There are all levels of use and abuse, so what exactly are they afraid of?
Honestly, (im-pessimistic-o) it's a money game, not enough salvia users to see decent taxes, but enough to criminalize and throw in the system. Like pipes where I live. They sell them in stores, legally, yet you can be charged with paraphernalia as soon as you walk out the door. They want taxes, and more taxes. Sounds lame and anti-climatic, I know. If you are growing a plant, that has potential medical value, you are a threat. There.
You've seen grandmothers growing Salvia divinorum? This is really news to me! Are you absolutely sure it was Salvia divinorum and not a more common decorative/garden species of sage?
Less than 50 years ago, the plant grew only in the Sierra Mazateca; it has occasionally been introduced to coffee plantations in that region, but more commonly grows in ravines and other secluded areas. It virtually never sets seed; no seed has ever been collected in the wild, although manual pollination can produce an extremely low yield of viable seed. And it's not sold in gardening shops in the United States; you have to either obtain a cutting from someone who grows it or from an ethnobotanical vendor. The only way I can conceive of someone growing it without knowing that it's psychoactive is if they purchased a plant from a Saturday Market (or similar venue); the people I've seen selling it are fully aware of what it is, but I suppose someone who is unaware might buy a plant simply because they like its appearance.
If you are certain that it's grown as a decorative plant, do you mind if I ask what country this is in? And can anyone else verify this? It's new information to me!
Less than 50 years ago, the plant grew only in the Sierra Mazateca; it has occasionally been introduced to coffee plantations in that region, but more commonly grows in ravines and other secluded areas. It virtually never sets seed; no seed has ever been collected in the wild, although manual pollination can produce an extremely low yield of viable seed. And it's not sold in gardening shops in the United States; you have to either obtain a cutting from someone who grows it or from an ethnobotanical vendor. The only way I can conceive of someone growing it without knowing that it's psychoactive is if they purchased a plant from a Saturday Market (or similar venue); the people I've seen selling it are fully aware of what it is, but I suppose someone who is unaware might buy a plant simply because they like its appearance.
If you are certain that it's grown as a decorative plant, do you mind if I ask what country this is in? And can anyone else verify this? It's new information to me!
Lavos
Rising Star
Well, hmm, I'm not positive it was SD. It will be a few weeks before I'm over there to get a picture. Nonetheless, Home Depot and other popular local nursery carries it most of the year. $9-10 a plant. I'm positive of that.
Looking at images of the plant I may very well have been wrong in saying I'd seen it at my friends Grandmothers, but I'm sure I've heard of it used landscaping wise around here, and as I said, local nurseries have them. I'm in TX.
Looking at images of the plant I may very well have been wrong in saying I'd seen it at my friends Grandmothers, but I'm sure I've heard of it used landscaping wise around here, and as I said, local nurseries have them. I'm in TX.
burningmouth
Rising Star
Lavos said:
"Salvia divinorum is an inauspicious-looking member of the mint family and is one of many species of salvia, also known as sage, some of which are common garden plants in hot, dry climates. (Salvia divinorum itself is not a popular garden plant because it is not considered decorative." ----LA Times
Salvia: the legal herb
Salvia divinorum is the hallucinogen anyone can buy -- even teens. Still, outlawing it is a big step.
articles.latimes.com
No offense intended, Lavos, but I still strongly suspect that you're mistaking Salvia divinorum with other (decorative) sages. Aside from its square-shaped stems and the distinctive white bilabiate corollas protruding from a violet calyces (which are only seen during on the relatively rare times when the plant is flowering), it resembles many other species in the genus Salvia. I have a very hard time believing that Home Depot carries it; virtually all information about propagating and cultivating the plant comes from sources that acknowledge and often provide detailed information about its use as a psychoactive.
The only references I've been able to find on its use as a decorative plant for use in landscaping are in some of the state laws that prohibit Salvia divinorum, which make an exemption for those cultivating it for purely aesthetic purposes... but there are no indications that it are actually used for that purpose.
The only references I've been able to find on its use as a decorative plant for use in landscaping are in some of the state laws that prohibit Salvia divinorum, which make an exemption for those cultivating it for purely aesthetic purposes... but there are no indications that it are actually used for that purpose.
Lavos
Rising Star
Hmm, well that took a little longer than I thought.
The local chain nursery nearby has them. Still 10 bucks. Home Depot does not now, but I wouldn't be surprised honestly to see them carry them once it warms up.
I need to get a letter out still. Got busy with a couple things.
Anyone hear about the proposed legislation in Australia to ban all DMT containing plants? (edit: actually hard to find a solid source on this...) I wonder if we shouldn't consider the foundation for our letters of outcry against this. How do you articulate freedom to people who even consider banning plants?
The local chain nursery nearby has them. Still 10 bucks. Home Depot does not now, but I wouldn't be surprised honestly to see them carry them once it warms up.
I need to get a letter out still. Got busy with a couple things.
Anyone hear about the proposed legislation in Australia to ban all DMT containing plants? (edit: actually hard to find a solid source on this...) I wonder if we shouldn't consider the foundation for our letters of outcry against this. How do you articulate freedom to people who even consider banning plants?
Lavos
Rising Star
Don't think this warrants it's own thread, but thought it was a noteworthy report.
Move to ban hallucinogenic herb questioned
Strangely enough commenting is disabled for that article.
Again, I'm not sure it's actually that it's perceived as dangerous that it's being banned, or other reasons. Doesn't seem like a fair fight to me. We need televised debate. Let the people ask directly of their representatives why and how they are representing them.
Move to ban hallucinogenic herb questioned
Strangely enough commenting is disabled for that article.
Again, I'm not sure it's actually that it's perceived as dangerous that it's being banned, or other reasons. Doesn't seem like a fair fight to me. We need televised debate. Let the people ask directly of their representatives why and how they are representing them.
It's great to hear a voice of reason from a highly educated individual. Sadly, what I've been reading in the news lately is that the conservative government of Canada wants to go ahead with its own agenda regardless of facts, reason, or morality. For example, the conservative government is pushing ahead with plans for massive increased spending and expansion for prison, despite crime rates that have been falling for decades. Less people are committing offenses, and more are being sent to prison. All this despite criticism from studies which show prison is not a successful "rehabilitation" program, that prison is extremely costly, and it just plain doesn't make sense to send more people to prison when crime rates are falling.... but that's what the conservative party wants to do for some reason. And even more incredible than that..... the Canadian people support it! Vancouver Sun Or rather, the reason the conservative party wants to do all this, is because for some reason which I cannot possibly understand, about 7% more Canadians support the increased spending. In a democracy, all you need is 1% more than the other guy to stay in power. I guess they're just going with whatever they think will keep them in power.
But, if no one speaks out against such poor choices, surely nothing will be done. Education on these matters is extremely important. I doubt people would support a lot government choices if people were truly educated about matters. And then governments would make different choices.
But, if no one speaks out against such poor choices, surely nothing will be done. Education on these matters is extremely important. I doubt people would support a lot government choices if people were truly educated about matters. And then governments would make different choices.
Entropymancer. it is absolutely common now a days in nurseries. one great example is Richters....a HUGE plant supplier in the US and canada. intent is irrevelant as to its encounterability because the platn is foudn in nurseries, not just head shops anymore, so you have to assume a "legitimate" use...although who has the right to call hallucinating illegitimate?
Our charter of rights protects our right to hallucinate, but the law makers blast right through that charter whenever they feel like. Only native people have a charter of rights now, and that only after a long period of the short end of the stick...these clowns just don't learn from their mistakes, and continue on their oppressive little way. its criminal to criminalize nature.
Our charter of rights protects our right to hallucinate, but the law makers blast right through that charter whenever they feel like. Only native people have a charter of rights now, and that only after a long period of the short end of the stick...these clowns just don't learn from their mistakes, and continue on their oppressive little way. its criminal to criminalize nature.
Interesting, I had no idea salvia was making its way into mainstream greenhouses! Hopefully this will help protect the availability of the plant even if its chemical constituents are made illegal.
Can someone PLEASE provide some form of evidence/proof/link of this proliferation of Salvia DIVINORUM in greenhouses and nurseries and corner stores and old ladies' gardens? I must maintain, until I see something to the contrary, that you are mistaking any # of the other varieties in the salvia genus for the diviner's sage. From Wikipedia:
And, for a comprehensive list of Salvias:
LIST OF SALVIAS
It just seems extremely unlikely that such a rare cultigen would show up in all the above listed places, so I cannot but expect that these are simple misidentifications, or, more likely, someone who has not brushed up on their botany and has completely ignored the species, mistaking the genus for the full name.
I wait to be proven wrong
, and sincerely hope I am, because that would mean this plant was far more widespread than I believed!
JBArk
And, for a comprehensive list of Salvias:
LIST OF SALVIAS
It just seems extremely unlikely that such a rare cultigen would show up in all the above listed places, so I cannot but expect that these are simple misidentifications, or, more likely, someone who has not brushed up on their botany and has completely ignored the species, mistaking the genus for the full name.
I wait to be proven wrong
, and sincerely hope I am, because that would mean this plant was far more widespread than I believed! JBArk
Well maybe not live plants, but they do sell extracts in corner stores around where I live. There's a pic of the exact brand on wikipedia:
I also doubt that the live plants are available in local nurseries and such. I've been to a few locally, and they know what the plant is, but don't sell it. I got funny looks from every one of them too I had to get my cuttings from an online vendor.
I also doubt that the live plants are available in local nurseries and such. I've been to a few locally, and they know what the plant is, but don't sell it. I got funny looks from every one of them too
I had to get my cuttings from an online vendor.
gibran2 said:Ahh... yes. You know how much I love to prove you wrong.jbark said:I wait to be proven wrong
JBArk
Here's a link: Richters
DRAT DARNIT... I hate bein' wrong
!! But is richters only online? what about the claims of seeing plants (not extracts) in brick and mortatr corner stores and nurseries and the lawns of octagenarian retirees? I won't consider myself wrong until ALL these are demonstrated as truthful! And yes, I know, I am making the rules to winning up as I go along - that's life!! (when grasping at straws, make sure there is a milkshake somehere - preferably someone else's milkshake!!):d Cheers,
JBArk
Richter's site has a page with directions to the nursery. I would guess that the live plants available online are also available at the store.jbark said:DRAT DARNIT... I hate bein' wrong
Cheers,
JBArk
I doubt very much that anyone is growing SD as an ornamental. It's not a very attractive plant, it produces flowers only late in the season (if at all), and it can get very tall (6 feet or more). So it's not very good as an ornamental.
I don't think it is widely available. People who haven't actually seen a live SD plant go to a nursery, see an ornamental salvia species with purple flowers and square stems, and think they've found SD. Other people see ANY ornamental salvia in a garden and wrongly assume that SD is the only plant called "salvia". :roll:
gibran2 said:Richter's site has a page with directions to the nursery. I would guess that the live plants available online are also available at the store.jbark said:DRAT DARNIT... I hate bein' wrong
Cheers,
JBArk
I doubt very much that anyone is growing SD as an ornamental. It's not a very attractive plant, it produces flowers only late in the season (if at all), and it can get very tall (6 feet or more). So it's not very good as an ornamental.
I don't think it is widely available. People who haven't actually seen a live SD plant go to a nursery, see an ornamental salvia species with purple flowers and square stems, and think they've found SD. Other people see ANY ornamental salvia in a garden and wrongly assume that SD is the only plant called "salvia". :roll:
Exactly my point. We both win. (or stalemate?8) )Anyone else?
JBArk
PowerfulMedicine
Rising Star
gibran2 said:Ahh... yes. You know how much I love to prove you wrong.jbark said:I wait to be proven wrong
JBArk
Here's a link: Richters
Holy crap!!! That's a good price!!! Anybody know what strain it is and if it has good enough potency?
I think that anyone who respects and truly wants to learn from this plant should just go out a get as many plants as they can. Just grow them and keep growing them. Give em away free to as many worthy people as possible. Give em to people who don't even want to use it for its effects. We should really turn it into a common ornamental that grandmas have as houseplants. Give it to your Grandma! I doubt they will prosecute a person growing for its psychotropic effects if enough grandmas are growing it.
We should start movement. The Give Your Grandma Salvia Movement. It makes a great mother's day gift!:lol: I actually think this should be done with every sacred plant that one is interested in, but given the dire need for social change, I can't see a better time than now to start or a better plant than this to spread.
Who's with me!