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Cannot breakthrough, need advice on what went wrong with vaporizer

Migrated topic.
OFF TOPIC: in two ingredients of Ayahuasca, what tastes worse, 1/4 pint (4oz) of Syrian Rue or 1/2 pint (8oz) Acacia Confusa?

Does Syrian Rue give you the purge or does nothing happen until Acacia Confusa is ingested?

EDIT, SOLVED: Syrian Rue does not but Acacia Confusa does in 15 minutes and sometimes with zero seconds warning.
 
eastlancsguy said:
They say the magic number is 3 (each one held for 20 seconds if possible), but to be honest with 30mgs loaded in the machine, ill usually break through on the first hit.
Click to expand...
For me with good product two hits is the perfect dose. Of course before the initial hit I spend some time relaxed and in a comfortable position. While in this comfortable position I focus on relaxing my body from head to toe, visualizing every muscle I can. While visualizing every muscle I focus on breathing as deep as possible as long as possible. I do this for at least 5 minutes.

Smoking technique mixed with breathing exercise should take you where you want to go. If you are having trouble with this after all the recommendations here and after confirming product purity I suggest simply obtaining the GVG instead of wasting time over whatever e-vape is in vogue on this moment.

Good luck.
 
a1pha said:
I suggest simply obtaining the GVG instead of wasting time over whatever e-vape is in vogue on this moment.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

We'd love to, but the fact is, the GVG is essentially unobtainable for the great majority of the planet's population.

Where's globalization when you need it?!
 
@eDNA: Just one question regarding that vaporizer you use, (sorry if this is kind of obvious, I haven't used that vaporizer before) does it take a little pause to preheat the material thoroughly before it increase to set vapor temperature?

Also one observation regarding spice from acacia, if you got a fair share of NMT in your product then it seems to start boiling at 150⁰C, other than that the boiling temp for pure dmt is about 160⁰C.

Between 160⁰C – 165⁰C the rate of vaporization is close to optimal in my experience. I tested this recently with a heat gun with adjustable temperature, I haven't controlled the outlet air temperature with a thermometer yet to confirm how accurate the device is but seems to be pretty close.

Regarding breakthrough, if you got high MAO-capacity, which can easily happen with stimulant medication then it can be very hard to get more than sub-breakthroughs without rue extract.
 
ManicMongrel said:
Also one observation regarding spice from acacia, if you got a fair share of NMT in your product then it seems to start boiling at 150⁰C, other than that the boiling temp for pure dmt is about 160⁰C.

Between 160⁰C – 165⁰C the rate of vaporization is close to optimal in my experience. I tested this recently with a heat gun with adjustable temperature, I haven't controlled the outlet air temperature with a thermometer yet to confirm how accurate the device is but seems to be pretty close.
Click to expand...
This 160°C vaporisation temp is under low pressure [wikipedia : 160 °C (320 °F)@ 0.6 Torr (80 Pa)] not at atmospheric pressure. So this is not the optimal temp. At least with a volcano, i can go up to 220°C if the freebase is clean, and of course it varies according to the device used (conduction, convection, air flow and whatnot).
 
You press the button. The red pre-heating light comes on as the device reaches the desired temperature. Green light turns on that it is ready. 150°C tastes fine. 155°C noticeably worse. 165°C scorched, burning your lungs in comparison to 150°C. Please post if these facts change your opinion, I am open to accepting that temperatures should be modified.

But things are much more serious than they were when this was just a vaporizer issue. There was no breakthrough with Ayahuasca either!! So this has now expanded beyond the vaporizer and questions about pure DMT.


This is now a serious problem. When reading of others having trouble braking through, we usually think of that as "that would never happen to me or anyone I know" - but any links on this topic or advice would be greatly appreciated since this now transcends method of use. Both pure DMT and properly prepared Ayahuasca resulted in no Breakthrough. Really need advice/links to whatever you came across at any point in your experience on this topic. Thank you to posters who already posted theirs.

Ayahuasca details would be pertinent so there is no choice but to post a lengthy report so that what happened can be compared with what should happen. Please post opinions. This is a huge deal. So many years of preparation, of waiting, so much expense, this definitely may be a mental unpreparedness issue but right now what's needed is as many links to read and advice to read as possible, this is beyond concerning right now.


Four days of no food whatsoever. About 2.5 days of no water whatsoever.
21:00 1/4 pint (4oz) of 100% properly prepared Syrian Rue.
21:45 No digestive or any problems before taking 1/2 pint (8oz) of 100% properly prepared Acacia Confusa.
22:00 Purge 15 minutes later consisted of throwing up once, with no going to the bathroom. No more throwing up and no going to the bathroom for the duration (other than urinating a couple of times overnight).

Just before the purge: Laying down was not conducive to bringing on the effects. Sitting on edge of bed with feet on the floor was. Instinctively found out that saying/thinking the most positive words helped. Especially the term 'kindness' when said/thought resulted in energy passing through arms. Saying the name of your child truly results in an uncontrollable ear to ear smile and this helps greatly. I assume this was because a good parent's thought of their child is a pure positive thought.
In the middle of this, with no 5-15 second warning, with no 1 second warning, the one and only throwing up episode happened. Note to anyone reading this, you may not have *any* time to get to the bathroom after taking Ayahuasca so absolutely keep your bucket next to you, not one step away, next to you.

From this point on until 02:30 attempts at breakthrough commenced.

• There was *never* multitude of colors. No spinning scenary.
• A black sleep mask was put on to isolate the senses and help with the mind trip.
• The continuous setup was one of being "at the bottom" with trying to ascend up.

• The mind was in the initial state it was when a successful mushroom trip was tried two months ago. So this was no normal state of mind. Things were happening but nothing like the Ayahuasca experience reports.
• Complete control was present at all times. The moment anything negative was perceived, head was tilted or eyes were moved to the left or to the right and mental control was able to prevent any negative event going further. There was never anything overly horrible. And it couldn't last for more than a second or two, because there was complete mind control of being able to actually reject what was coming up.

• Then again instinctively, this approach was used, with success: Saying/thinking happy thoughts, positive thoughts aided the ascent "up". But once again, no multitude of colors. Light blue walled room was ascended to and that seemed positive, but seeing as all perceptions are amplified under the influence, spouse talking on the phone in the other room could not be ignored. And thoughts of spouse "never talking on the phone at this hour, what are the odds that this is happening at the very worse moment possible..." those thoughts resulted in any ascent disappearing and perception of being at the "bottom" again. Bottom being symbolized by various scenes of, sort of, gaudy environment that someone lower than not being financially well off would live in. The symbolic bottom.

• So between 22:00 and 02:30 that's four and a half hours, attempts at breakthrough were tried. There were no multitude of colors. There were no spinning sceneries. This was the extent of it, separate appearances of:
- a room with light blue walls.
- a very dark red rose.
- separate instances of "feeling" of being approached but not seeing any entities to speak of.
When this happened, a concentrated energy was beginning to form around the genital area but it did not last.
- Elongated fingers phenomenon, that did not last and did not lead to anything further.
- some sort of effect on the teeth and nose bones.
- some sort of effect on both nipples, only a few seconds in duration at the very early beginning.


All of this lasted very briefly and inevitably most time was spent at the symbolic bottom, with ability to briefly ascend when using happy words/thoughts.

Once again, a sense of complete control was there, simply turning or looking elsewhere would start/stop another sequence.

- Very early beginnings could be perceived but this was more like when you close your eyes in channel normal and positive/negative thoughts occur to you then actually having the experience. So yes there was a very tiny brief moment of almost approaching the kind of a membrane that stood between this world and beyond and almost kind of but not really making out the heads of classic aliens looking in but this was definitely more like product of imagination and not a real experience and was squashed immediately by not wanting to be with "those guys".

There was a very brief scene, again more like product of imagination then real experience you would expect under Ayahuasca of possibility of meeting someone of the opposite sex but the mind was interpreting as "you only get one shot so what do you really want" and thinking in response "as much as this would be cool, knowledge is my primary goal.... as much as this would be great, acquiring knowledge is what this must be about. So between knowledge and a 'pleasurable' encounter, knowledge would be chosen."

Both pre-DMT and pre-Ayahuasca time was spent going over a list of questions that would be asked to that end. Of acquiring knowledge.


• Throughout this, concerns over spouse were also breaking any efforts to breakthrough. After telling spouse to go downstairs into another room (to continue phone conversation) there was concern that spouse would sleep there and it was a very cold night and it's kind of colder down there. Finally at 02:30 after walking over to the living room where spouse was now sleeping on the couch, two things happened: spouse was told to come to the bedroom and some mouthwash was used (not swallowed). This effectively and completely ended the experience. Mind was not seeing anything any more. It was over.

To me this really points to a big mental problem, but would be grateful for any advice after pure DMT and Ayahuasca failed to bring on anything that most people experience.

If this could be remedied through efforts, please post what those efforts are.
If this is physical mental inability - than that would be an incurable problem and this would be beyond disappointing after all these years of preparation.


Also please also post if DMT and Ayahuasca should be put in freezer or stored elsewhere?
 
DansMaTete said:
ManicMongrel said:
Also one observation regarding spice from acacia, if you got a fair share of NMT in your product then it seems to start boiling at 150⁰C, other than that the boiling temp for pure dmt is about 160⁰C.

Between 160⁰C – 165⁰C the rate of vaporization is close to optimal in my experience. I tested this recently with a heat gun with adjustable temperature, I haven't controlled the outlet air temperature with a thermometer yet to confirm how accurate the device is but seems to be pretty close.
Click to expand...
This 160°C vaporisation temp is under low pressure [wikipedia : 160 °C (320 °F)@ 0.6 Torr (80 Pa)] not at atmospheric pressure. So this is not the optimal temp. At least with a volcano, i can go up to 220°C if the freebase is clean, and of course it varies according to the device used (conduction, convection, air flow and whatnot).
Click to expand...

I didn't see the pressure conditions, oh well, that doesn't give that heat gun much credit in terms of accuracy, haha. It still evaporates to some extent below the boiling point though, but that depends a lot on the amount of forced convection.

@eDNA

To me it looks like you got a tolerance issue. The easiest way around this is to make pharmahausca in my opinion.

Syrian rue can be tricky to dose if you make crude tea, the same goes for acaia confusa. On the other hand, both are a delight to extract from.

I have tried a number of extraction methods for both, for Acacia Confusa the best yielding method so far was to first soak the bark in 90%++ ethanol, then evaporate and perform an acid/base-extract on that with heptane. For syrian rue the "tao of rue extraction" is pretty straight forward (with vinegar).
 
Thank you for posting. Would you expand on that, does 'tolerance issue' imply increased dosages are required?

More of the same?

Where do you stand on the "state of mind" issue influencing this to the point of preventing the the full experience regardless of what is used?
 
eDNA said:
Thank you for posting. Would you expand on that, does 'tolerance issue' imply increased dosages are required?

More of the same?

Where do you stand on the "state of mind" issue influencing this to the point of preventing the the full experience regardless of what is used?
Click to expand...

Like many others around here I prefer to use extracted freebase alkloids from syrian rue rather than just making rue tea. You can start with lets say 30mg harmine, then gradually increase until you start feeling the effects from the maoi. When this happens the spice vapor usually starts to feel more potent and longer lasting, from that point it should just ba a matter of dosage before you approoach the breakthrough range.

Collecting the spice vapor in a bag also simplifies things a lot. Oven bags works well enough for this purpose.

I know several people who have tried to make tea from acacia without getting much effect from the brew, so personally I rather extract than risk spoiling the raw material.

I vaporized a spice from acacia @ 220⁰C a couple of days ago into an oven bag and I reached the threshold dose for breakthrough with two full tokes from the bag. The walls started to tear at the corners and I saw the contours of another dimension shine through the cracks, haha.

Regarding the "state of mind" issue, my philosophy is that you have to try to get rid of expectations, be well rested and just see where the experience takes you. People can get very different forms of breakthroughs. I also get the impression that to some people, like me and my brother, dmt takes a bit of getting used to before things start to really intensify.

Edit: had to expand on things
 
Adding to this old thread for anyone who comes across it in the future.

I also have a S&B Crafty vape as well as a GVG. The crafty is my "weed vape". One of my batches, the crystals melted because I fan-dried the dish. I scrapped up the goo and rolled it into weed.

Got some vaping of the DMT at 150c (around 305F) but found much better results vaping the weed + DMT at 376F. Hits you pretty hard but not enough to breakthrough. Good combo though if you like to sit in the dark and contemplate your life :)
 
I just use a dab rig set up for my deemz, and I never had any issues breaking through. Weigh out your desired dose, heat up the nail, let it cool then drop it on in. Hold for 16 seconds and enjoy.
 

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I was going to suggest that maybe the DMT was in salt form, but if you're getting the same misfires from ayahuasca, then I would have a tendency to lean towards tolerance. Someone I know has vaped well over 200mg (possibly 250mg) over minutes and had light open eye visuals and just a bit intoxicated. She has a high tolerance to many things, but this gargantuan dose had my jaw on the floor. She has also taken ayahuasca in the traditional setting a number of times with only mild effects. As an example, I had one glass compared to her two glasses. I was completely gone from reality for a period of time that I would estimate to be 30-40 minutes, feeling like I was poisoned and having some seriously troubling visions. That evening changed my life in many ways. She described that evening as "pleasant" with some minor closed eye visuals and even fell asleep for the last hour or so of the ceremony. A single full glass would sometimes give her an extremely light trip and sometimes borderline nothing. We are going to do some more tests at some point in the future. I am hopeful that it is simply tolerance, but I could be wrong.
Keep in mind that this is a person with very high tolernace, but the course of action that I want to pursue is:
pharmahuasca, 250mg harmine + 100mg DMT
pharmahuasca, 500mg harmine + 100mg DMT
Assess the quantitative and qualitative differences between the experiences to confirm or deny that enough MAOI is being consumed to effectively deactivate the MAO and allow into her system all of the DMT.
If there is little difference in DMT related effects, then we will drop back down to 250mg harmine and slowly increase the DMT until the desired effect is achieved, keeping in mind that the LD50 for DMT is around 110mg/kg.
I have had zero success finding information to help her and am relying on my scientific background to plow through this uncharted territory. Experiments aren't expcted to proceed for some time, but I hope this information is helpful as it sounds like you are in a similar predicament.
 
take 80mg grind it as best you can and SNIFF IT!
or use the coco tek in wiki
I went through something similar as you in the beginning
and just said screw it and tried sniffing it and WAMMM 2 seconds later
I was gone. And it lasted for about 25 to 30 minutes. It's a little
harsh and don't sniff it all the way thru to your throat kinda just to
the point of it sitting in the back of your nose and there will be no failure.
Happy trails:grin:
 
eDNA said:
Ten (10) years preparing for this, saving up to buy the best equipment money can buy and somehow missed reading about correct inhaling techniques. It's not just the three loads + wasted, it's the disappointment of having waited 10 years and going through hell to get to this point and then inhaling it wrong ruins everything!?

Is there a sticky on this on the forums somewhere?
Click to expand...

I have to consider, when confronted with feelings like these, how much Siddhartha gave up (an entire kingdom) and still had to take the long way 'round.

Courage, and shuffle the cards.
 
notsure said:
take 80mg grind it as best you can and SNIFF IT!
or use the coco tek in wiki
I went through something similar as you in the beginning
and just said screw it and tried sniffing it and WAMMM 2 seconds later
I was gone. And it lasted for about 25 to 30 minutes. It's a little
harsh and don't sniff it all the way thru to your throat kinda just to
the point of it sitting in the back of your nose and there will be no failure.
Happy trails:grin:
Click to expand...

I did that, and it hurt. :thumb_dow
 
This is why I think every dmt smoker should own a GVG lol. If you're not going to buy a gvg or make enhanced leaf/changa try the sandwich method. Load up a water bong with the sandwich method just to see if it's really dmt. :)
 
eDNA said:
40mg-50mg on a Liquid Pad on CRAFTY Vaporizer
http://www.storz-bickel.com/shop_us/en/crafty-vaporizer.html

set to 150°C per this guy's recommendtion:

Definitely started to get that feeling the stomach of it starting to happen - but it went nowhere... As a last resort I tapped the temperature boost option on the device which heated it up by extra 15°C to 165°C and this resulted in a noticeably scorched result so he was right that the temperature should not go much higher than 150°C on this device.

Waited a little bit and tried again with another 40mg-50mg. This time set to 155°C. It went nowhere with taste being noticeably worse so he really really :) was right that the temperature of 150°C is correct.


Waited overnight for try #3. 150°C, definitely noticed beginnings of a buzz of a mental start but in none of the three tries got anywhere near promised land.


What is going wrong here? I felt like I definitely had 50mg, maybe a tad bit more on try #3. Source is reputable. Any advice appreciated.


FYI: Fasted, no food whatsoever for 3+ days and no water for 12h.
Try #3: No food intake of any kind for 3.5 days and no water for 24 hours.

Thank you.
Click to expand...


After all this time, this is what was wrong:
Height / weight/ tolerance ratio required was 65mg not 40mg-50mg.

BOTH Liquid Pad AND Metal Screen on top of the Liquid Pad are required.
Temperature procedures were incorrect.

DETAILS
=======

With the Vaporizer top removed, place Liquid Pad in - and then place Metal Screen on top of the Liquid Pad.
Make sure no product is on the sides, just on top of the Metal Screen - evenly spread.
Do not put the Vaporizer top back on yet.
With top off - Activate 150° C and wait till it hits 150° C or so. It will start melting. Wait to see it start melting.

Now increase temperature to 180° C
Only now put the Vaporizer top back on.

Wait till 180° C
Immediately inhale slowly and deeeeply at 180° C

After first inhale - increase by three degrees to 183° C
Slowly and deeeeply inhale at 183° C

After second inhale - increase by three degrees to 186° C
Slowly and deeeeply inhale at 186° C

Three deep inhales should be enough.
 
eDNA said:
eDNA said:
40mg-50mg on a Liquid Pad on CRAFTY Vaporizer
http://www.storz-bickel.com/shop_us/en/crafty-vaporizer.html

set to 150°C per this guy's recommendtion:

Definitely started to get that feeling the stomach of it starting to happen - but it went nowhere... As a last resort I tapped the temperature boost option on the device which heated it up by extra 15°C to 165°C and this resulted in a noticeably scorched result so he was right that the temperature should not go much higher than 150°C on this device.

Waited a little bit and tried again with another 40mg-50mg. This time set to 155°C. It went nowhere with taste being noticeably worse so he really really :) was right that the temperature of 150°C is correct.


Waited overnight for try #3. 150°C, definitely noticed beginnings of a buzz of a mental start but in none of the three tries got anywhere near promised land.


What is going wrong here? I felt like I definitely had 50mg, maybe a tad bit more on try #3. Source is reputable. Any advice appreciated.


FYI: Fasted, no food whatsoever for 3+ days and no water for 12h.
Try #3: No food intake of any kind for 3.5 days and no water for 24 hours.

Thank you.
Click to expand...


After all this time, this is what was wrong:
Height / weight/ tolerance ratio required was 65mg not 40mg-50mg.

BOTH Liquid Pad AND Metal Screen on top of the Liquid Pad are required.
Temperature procedures were incorrect.

DETAILS
=======

With the Vaporizer top removed, place Liquid Pad in - and then place Metal Screen on top of the Liquid Pad.
Make sure no product is on the sides, just on top of the Metal Screen - evenly spread.
Do not put the Vaporizer top back on yet.
With top off - Activate 150° C and wait till it hits 150° C or so. It will start melting. Wait to see it start melting.

Now increase temperature to 180° C
Only now put the Vaporizer top back on.

Wait till 180° C
Immediately inhale slowly and deeeeply at 180° C

After first inhale - increase by three degrees to 183° C
Slowly and deeeeply inhale at 183° C

After second inhale - increase by three degrees to 186° C
Slowly and deeeeply inhale at 186° C

Three deep inhales should be enough.
Click to expand...

Morning eDNA,
I purchased The Crafty last year, hoping I would be able to smoke both Spice and bud with the device. After trying to vape Spice 3/4 times with little or no effect and only slight OEV's, I decided to try my hand at making enhanced leaf as well as Changa. I'm curious to test out your findings with your Crafty and will report back once I try it. I have a question about the liquid pad and mental screen.... are you placing the Spice in-between the liquid pad and metal screen or the spice on top of both?
 
__the__alchemist__ said:
Morning eDNA,
I purchased The Crafty last year, hoping I would be able to smoke both Spice and bud with the device. After trying to vape Spice 3/4 times with little or no effect and only slight OEV's, I decided to try my hand at making enhanced leaf as well as Changa. I'm curious to test out your findings with your Crafty and will report back once I try it. I have a question about the liquid pad and mental screen.... are you placing the Spice in-between the liquid pad and metal screen or the spice on top of both?
Click to expand...
Good luck trying. I gave up and went for an e-cig vaporizer (direct e-mesh method) which was definitely the right decision for me.

Your Crafty will smell foul for a long time if you try to vaporize spice with it, so using it for both substances might not be the best strategy in long term.
 
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