Carlos Castaneda/Toltec Way: Who has walked this path?

[SpartanII]

care to elaborate on why your having a difficult time applying these techniques to your day to day life?

I guess I'm just looking for someone who has "been there" so that they could give me advice on how to start/proceed with the teachings. For example, was there an order you followed in utilizing the techniques? Some kind of system or structure that you followed?

I have had the great honor of meeting "Don Jun" (his true identity remains hidden)while traveling in the spirit world more than once, (yes it's possible.)

That's awesome! I have questions but I'll save it for a private message.

 

[jamie]

Prof. Jay Courtney Fikes interview – “Huichol, Peyote, and the Carlos Castaneda Dec…

This episode is an interview with Prof. Jay Courtney Fikes, titled "Huichol, Peyote, and the Carlos Castaneda Deception" and is being released on Sunday, July 03, 2011. My interview with Jay was recorded live and in person on June 29, 2011, in Carlsbad CA

www.blubrry.com

^there is an interesting talk I just listened to..reguardless of how you feel about the guy it is good to listen to if you want to be objective about the castanda phenomenon.

Also interesting for anyone interested in huichol shamanism and peyote in general..the whole interview is not there..only first 30 minutes it seems..I will try to find the rest..edit, nm the whole interview is there.

 

[jamie]

I also have one question..and I am not being sarcastic here I am seriousily asking this question because I have looked online and cannot find any factual link between castaneda and the toltec. I dont understand how there can be a carlos castaneda/toltec way if the guy in reality had nothing at all to do with the toltec.

I dont remember anything about the toltec in the books I read..but it was like 6 years ago the last time I read one of those books and I only have the first 2 or 3 cus I gave the others away..

The toltec are a distict group of people..and yes carlos used some of their words like "nagual" which is like a toltec shaman..and they do have a sort of warriors path in toltec tradition..but that is where any real link between them and castaneda ends..did castaneda claim to ever actaully apprentice to a toltec nagual? Does anyone have any links to this or any links to info on him ever really spending time with the toltec peoples?

Sorry, I just find it weird that there would be a castaneda way that is synonamous with the toltec way..I think most likely it is just the castaneda way.

I dunno about Don Miguel Ruiz in relation to castaneda, but his stuff seems to be the bulk of the toltec stuff out there in pop culture...but that is why I started this thread..is he somehow associated with castaneda? Where is this whole toltec/castaneda thing comming from?

 

[SpartanII]

but that is why I started this thread..is he somehow associated with castaneda? Where is this whole toltec/castaneda thing comming from?

Actually I started this thread.

Also, your question would be more on topic in the CC debate thread.

BUMP.

"Who has walked this path?" Or applied any of the teachings/techniques from Castaneda or other Toltec teachers?

By the way, this is not a debate thread.

For that go here: The Official Carlos Castaneda Debate - Open Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Thanks!:thumb_up:

 

[jamie]

I meant why I started the post, not thread

It would be good in that other thread sure..but it is also relevant here because all this stuff perpetuates pretend anthropologial ideas..how can you have a castaneda way that is toltec if he had nothing to do with the toltec people?

Dont you care that you asking about something that might have no basis in reality? When I am interested in something enough to try it out, I usually want to research it as much as possible and if there are obvious holes in the picture it just brings up doubts and questions. This is how logic works.

 

[SpartanII]

Dont you care that you asking about something that might have no basis in reality?

Kind of an ironic statement for a DMT forum.:lol:

 

[blue lunar night]

^ How so ?

DMT, and the experience it provides, absolutely has a basis in 'reality' - though what people speculate about it may not.

Or do you think Psychedelics provide a free pass for 'magical (i.e. wishful) thinking'?


Jose Arguelles was in a similar situation, in that he was heavily criticized for his 'Mayan Dreamspell Calendar', which was very loosely extrapolated from the real Mayan Calendar. Thus his critics charged that the 'Mayan' designation was inaccurate and misleading, and I agree with that assessment.

On the other hand, my username, 'blue lunar night', was taken from his Dreamspell calendar, so I do find it to be of some applicability. But I don't for a second delude myself into thinking that it bears any more than a surface resemblance to ancient Mayan calendrics.


It's the same with Castaneda: he characterized his teachings as 'Toltec' in order to give them an air of legitimacy.
If his teachings are indeed legitimate (& I think some of them are!), they would stand on their own legs, without need of the tribal trappings that his cult of personality had come to expect.

Don't take any of this personally, Spartan; Castaneda DOES have gems buried in his shamanic fan-fiction, but to co-opt an entire culture as he did is fundamentally disrespectful to that culture and whatever knowledge they actually had.

As always, the proof is in the pudding: Castaneda's utter lack of transparency, his delusional paranoia and inflated Guru posturing indicate a profound disconnect between what he practiced and what he preached.

 

[SpartanII]

^ How so ?

DMT, and the experience it provides, absolutely has a basis in 'reality' - though what people speculate about it may not.

If there is one thing to be learned from the DMT experience, it's that reality is subjective. And it can be argued that the DMT experience has no basis in reality (which I think is BS), yet people bring back useful information. Same with dreaming.

Or do you think Psychedelics provide a free pass for 'magical (i.e. wishful) thinking'?

Not at all.

Don't take any of this personally, Spartan; Castaneda DOES have gems buried in his shamanic fan-fiction, but to co-opt an entire culture as he did is fundamentally disrespectful to that culture and whatever knowledge they actually had.

I don't take it personally.

As always, the proof is in the pudding: Castaneda's utter lack of transparency, his delusional paranoia and inflated Guru posturing indicate a profound disconnect between what he practiced and what he preached.

What pudding are you eating? I consider the wisdom gained from CC's books the pudding. I don't really care how the message was delivered, only that I am able to utilize it.

I think the point that some people miss (not saying you do), is that even though the Castaneda books may be fiction, that doesn't mean wisdom can't be found there, in one of it's many forms, massages, and paths.

Thanks for your input, but as I said, this isn't a debate thread, it's an experience thread. :thumb_up:

 

[jamie]

my point was that calling it "toltec" seems to me to convey more misunderstanding of castaneda and his work. I think his claimed association with the yaqui, huichol and toltec etc needs to be looked at objectivly by people who are seriously interested in his work. There is some value in his work, but it is disrespectful for that work to be claimed as toltec, or huichil or yaqui etc..it is just carlos castanedas way as far as I can tell. I spent about an hour last night online trying to find anything substancial that could link him to the toltec and I can not find anything.

In regaurds to the OP and the toltec way how do you feel about Don Miguel Ruiz? He the main person I can find who claims to be toltec and is teaching this knowledge that was apparently taught to him by his father and grandmother. I have not read any of his books but I have watched his videos online a few times. I dont really know all that much about the toltecs. I was hanging out with a guy at a bonfire on the beach the other night though from mexico who was telling me that the real brains behind all of the mesoamerican cultures were the toltecs and the mayans, aztecs etc built upon the foundations of the toltec.

BTW, I am not trying to debate carlos castaneda here, I only seriousily want to know if you or anyone else can provide a reliable link between him and toltec. I never concidered him to have ever met the toltec..sure he talks about toltec stuff but much of it is cross cultural when it comes to mesoamerican and amerindian culture. My guess is that he read about the toltecs in books, so in that case some of what he says might be loosly correct..but then again what is writtin in books by other anthropologists(esp back then) is not always translated properly or entirley grasped by the reader with no real experience of the people they are reading about. I can drink ayahuasca and read all about the shipibo for instance, but that does not mean I know much at all about the reality of the shipibo way.