Chali + ?

[enigmaticenergy]

Randomly stumbled across references to Aya years ago, and have always been fascinated with the idea. More recently, SWIM ran into a friend from high school who had actually moved to Peru and been working there as an ayahauscero(sp?). So, gathering from him that it was a positive experience, and from SWIM's own experience with various other hallucinogens, it was decided that this journey should be taken at least once. No experience with spice, MeO, or any of the other various analogues, aside from mushrooms.

SWIM has extracted medicinal mushrooms a few times, though never the magic kind. For some reason the magic kind had no effect. Wondering if this will indicate some kind of natural tolerance for this tree of substances?

Anyway, SWIM procured Chaliponga, as this was the recommended medium for extraction, and has yet to procure MAOI. Judging from reading through experiences, this choice can make a substantial difference in the experience. Would a more traditional brew of caapi & chali be advised for beginners, or would Rue be a better choice?

Also, any advice/pertinent links/teks would be appreciated, as there is a massive amount of knowledge through which to peruse on this site, and one more familiar with this space might direct SWIM more efficiently than the search engine.

 

[remediosvaro]

for extracting harmalas use rue, it has much more in it. but it also contains toxins, which caapi does not.

if you want to make tea use caapi, it is safer than rue for tea

 

[enigmaticenergy]

for extracting harmalas use rue, it has much more in it. but it also contains toxins, which caapi does not.

if you want to make tea use caapi, it is safer than rue for tea

This had been the impression. Also, do you think as a non-responder to psilocybin, SWIM should use a higher dose? This was not an isolated incident.

 

[3rdI]

i thought the whole 'toxins in Rue' had been dismissed, as long as your not a pregnant lady it is fine, even good, i will try to find the thread.

EDIT- clicky click

 

[enigmaticenergy]

SWIM thinks caapi will provide a more balanced experience based on further research and the suggestion of a friend. Also, is mass a factor? SWIM is somewhat large (240lbs/109kg) with a relatively high muscle density.

The point as to whether SWIM's tolerance/non-responsiveness to mushrooms seems to have been overlooked. Will this have bearing on the Aya experience? Is this an ignorant question? SWIM consumed roughly 7g mushrooms on 3 separate occasions with friends, who consumed roughly half that amount. Friends = fun. SWIM = none.

 

[enigmaticenergy]

Anyone with any insight?

 

[Mr.Peabody]

Yes, it's quite likely you'll need more than average for it to work. Chacruna seems to be a bit hit-and-miss, so either brew a lot more than you hope to need, or maybe make a half chacruna half chali brew (not by weight, but by estimated impact), and still brew more than you'll need.

 

[Silly(c)One]

Be carefull there...

My shaman had to take huge doses of mushrooms to work the first few times, because his mental was so strong...

If you brew a high dose of Ayahuasca and if it works, then you'll be in hell...

I wouldn't push my luck...

Best thing would be to drink Ayahuasca for the first times with a skilled shaman. Especially if you think you don't feel anything with mushrooms, it might indicate a resistance of the mind, which the shaman will address.

 

[enigmaticenergy]

Be carefull there...

My shaman had to take huge doses of mushrooms to work the first few times, because his mental was so strong...

If you brew a high dose of Ayahuasca and if it works, then you'll be in hell...

I wouldn't push my luck...

Best thing would be to drink Ayahuasca for the first times with a skilled shaman. Especially if you think you don't feel anything with mushrooms, it might indicate a resistance of the mind, which the shaman will address.

SWIM has wondered this. As a long-time meditator, it's fairly easy to tap into natural altered states. One wonders if this causes an inhibition of the effects of exogenous psychedelics. Would this imply a mental resistance, or some physiological mechanism? Would SWIM be better served to perform an extraction rather than make traditional Aya tea?
There seems to be no concrete evidence that endogenous DMT plays a role in non-chemical induced altered states. SWIM is no scientist however, merely an explorer seeking new realms to adventure.

 

[Mr.Peabody]

Be carefull there...

My shaman had to take huge doses of mushrooms to work the first few times, because his mental was so strong...

If you brew a high dose of Ayahuasca and if it works, then you'll be in hell...

I wouldn't push my luck...

Best thing would be to drink Ayahuasca for the first times with a skilled shaman. Especially if you think you don't feel anything with mushrooms, it might indicate a resistance of the mind, which the shaman will address.

I didn't mean drink it all at once.

You brew a double or triple batch of a recommended starting dose, so you can start with the recommended dose and if it's not enough, you have more ready. You do need to be careful, as you may think it's not working, take some more, and then the first amount kicks in. This has happened to me with mushrooms. Turned out well, though. 8)

 

[Silly(c)One]

Good point, Mr.Peabody

To the OP, I would still brew Ayahuasca instead of extracting DMT, unless you plan on doing some changa with additional harmaline...
Ayahuasca is all about the synergy of 2 plant teachers, not so much their molecules (that's the western reductionist view).
Don't get me wrong, DMT is a wonderful tool/toy, but Ayahuasca is more... complete.
It's a medecine who will take care of your body as well as your mind.

 

[Silly(c)One]

for extracting harmalas use rue, it has much more in it. but it also contains toxins, which caapi does not.

if you want to make tea use caapi, it is safer than rue for tea

This is just speculation, bro...

Why would rue be less safe than caapi in tea ?
It doesn't contain more or less "toxins" than caapi.
It's just some 4-8x more concentrated in harmalas, so you're right about extracting from it instead of caapi.

The spirit of rue is very different than the spirit of caapi though, so the ayahuasca analogues based on rue have a very different vibe, and I found caapi was a stronger medecine, but rue is very useable in teas. I know of Ayahuasqueros who only work with rue, due to the price and availability of caapi in Europe. (especially if you drink every week or more)

 

[DeDao]

I would recommend Caapi but start with low doses. Don't think that you are a revered psychonaut after one experience.

Be humble and smart about it.

 

[enigmaticenergy]

What would be considered a reasonable dosage for someone somewhat larger? It seems dosage recommendations for chaliponga vary greatly, from 2g to 12. Would it be best to split the difference? Also, what would be a good amount of Caapi, as dosage seems to vary according to preference? Personally, 6-8g Chaliponga with 50-75g of Caapi seems to be a reasonable beginner dose. Does this seem accurate?

 

[Mr.Peabody]

Sounds like a good start! You can always go up, but once you've drank it, it's a one way trip!:lol:

 

[Silly(c)One]

Or you could brew 100g caapi with 15-20g chali and reduce to 100ml, make it 2 shot glasses.
Drink the first, wait for an hour or two, and if you feel like it, drink the other one... Or keep it in the fridge for another ceremony