Changa and MDMA

[franklin_kk]

How safe would it be to do Changa on one night and the next afternoon do MDMA? I want to avoid serotonin syndrome, but it seems like your brain would have processed all of the DMT within the 16 hours or so between experiences. Thank you.

 

[_Trip_]

You'll be fine. Even if you have harmala in the changa it's half life is short. As a RIMA it's unlikely to interacte to a degree it'll cause serotonin syndrome.

Doing high dose MDMA with antidepressants whether maoi, ssri or snri would put you at much greater risk or if your MDMA is adulterated with PMNA or PMA etc

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

My personal experience is that the synergy between MDMA and DMT is excellent.

 

[Transform]

You'll be fine. Even if you have harmala in the changa it's half life is short. As a RIMA it's unlikely to interacte to a degree it'll cause serotonin syndrome.

Doing high dose MDMA with antidepressants whether maoi, ssri or snri would put you at much greater risk or if your MDMA is adulterated with PMMA or PMA etc

I'll just complement this with pointing out that doing changa while on the MDMA would carry a higher risk and is best avoided. Not that that was your plan, @franklin_kk; this is more for the sake of completeness.

 

[Transform]

My personal experience is that the synergy between MDMA and DMT is excellent.

Another point of clarification - here, "changa" refers to a herbal blend containing harmala alkaloids and DMT, whereby the RIMA (reversible MAOI) properties of the former could lead to averse interactions with things like MDMA, not to mention another point of metabolic overlap with the enzyme CYP2D6.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

Another point of clarification - here, "changa" refers to a herbal blend containing harmala alkaloids and DMT, whereby the RIMA (reversible MAOI) properties of the former could lead to averse interactions with things like MDMA, not to mention another point of metabolic overlap with the enzyme CYP2D6.

When we say containing, does this mean at the levels found if only the vine or leaf were added to the mix, as opposed to extracted or concentrated harmalas?
Am I right in thinking that if the DMT is taken without any form of MAOI, like in a vape, with MDMA, that this risk would be negated?

 

[Transform]

When we say containing, does this mean at the levels found if only the vine or leaf were added to the mix, as opposed to extracted or concentrated harmalas?
Am I right in thinking that if the DMT is taken without any form of MAOI, like in a vape, with MDMA, that this risk would be negated?

DMT without MAOI presents no risk of serotonin syndrome in combination with MDMA (as far as we know).

Regarding the harmala levels in changa, a low-harmala blend clearly would be 'safer' than a harmala-heavy mixture when consumed during an MDMA session. As always, the dose makes the poison, and at some point one would be walking a biochemical knife-edge.

While we've seen anecdotal reports here of concommitant MDMA and changa use that apparently didn't result in emergency room visits, the consequences of chasing a high in these circumstances could be quite horrific.

On a slight tangent, my own analogous experience was with taking AMT (α-methyltryptamine) and some hours later, against my better judgement, being talked into taking MDMA. Unsurprisingly perhaps, this resulted in one of the worst headaches of my life. It was only thanks to my prior experience - and probably a considerable measure of luck - that I was able to ride it out with meditation and relaxation, but it still floored me for something like ten hours.

AMT is a known competitive MAOI, and I can safely(!) say that even a little bit of serotonin syndrome is something that I have absolutely no desire to repeat, and I'm very glad that I wasn't tripping hard while it happened.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

Good to know.Thanks very much.

 

[franklin_kk]

Thanks for all of these answers, everyone. I had read the helpful information on this site about avoiding harmalas with MDMA, which is why I was asking about changa the day before the MDMA, in case the harmalas might be retained in the body. I am also interested in DMT alone while on MDMA and had assumed, before reading the helpful information on this site, that it could create serotonin syndrome. It appears that is not the case. Still, I think if I do try these two things together I will go somewhat low for this first time. I'm thinking 100 mg MDMA plus a gram of mushrooms plus 30 mg of smoked DMT would be very interesting.

 

[notgon nasay]

Thanks for all of these answers, everyone. I had read the helpful information on this site about avoiding harmalas with MDMA, which is why I was asking about changa the day before the MDMA, in case the harmalas might be retained in the body. I am also interested in DMT alone while on MDMA and had assumed, before reading the helpful information on this site, that it could create serotonin syndrome. It appears that is not the case. Still, I think if I do try these two things together I will go somewhat low for this first time. I'm thinking 100 mg MDMA plus a gram of mushrooms plus 30 mg of smoked DMT would be very interesting.

Did you ever come to satisfactory answer? I figure the question here is how long the smoked MOAI is active in the body