Changa, changa, my first changa. Advices much appreciated.

[Kalitechnik]

So the time has come to make my first changa-changa.
I read few posts and guides but would be nice to share what i am doing and hear your opinions and advices too.

regarding the herb mixes. i was reading about several herbs that contain maoi, and i tried to pick them to use in my blend although i dont actually believe that in this small quantities they have a strong effect. but in my mix there are two of those : passiflora incarnata, and tribulus terrestris.

The base of my mix is mullein which is 40% - 400mg, and the other herbs respectively 15% - 150mg each of damiana, pepper mint, passiflora and tribulus.
So all in total it is 1g of dry herbs.

I want to make quite strong mix so i am planning to use 1g of freebase dmt - 1g of freebase harmalas (from rue seeds) and mix it with 1g of herbs.

So now few /advices/opinions/shared experiences from you would liek to get.

1. What is the best solvent to dissolve frebase aterial and infuse plant matter with? Right now i am equipped with acetone. Is this ok, or IPA alcohol would be better?

2. And what about the maoi content? I was thinking that maybe i would like to take some harmalas orraly before smoking changa, but if there will be not harmala overdose?
Or maybe i should have two blends. One changa just with dmt, and smoke it after ingesting harmalas, and the other with harmalas for just a pure changa experience?
Is 1g of harmalas ok, or as some people advices 300mg per 1g of deems works better?
What are your thoughts.

3. How do you smoke your changa? Is normal glass pipe is ok? or is it preffered as changa on tha bonga style?

 

[Voidmatrix]

Alright! Hear we go!

I use ipa or everclear grain alcohol.

I don't know how familiar you are with harmalas, but with a lot in your system, it can get pretty intense. However, I'd recommend making test batches with the amounts you're curious about.

I share some of the combinations I've recently made and my experience with them

I usually use a bubbler, but a straight can be fine too if you have iron lungs.

For a lot of this you'll have to just fuq around and find out what works best for you

One love

 

[Transform]

So the time has come to make my first changa-changa.
I read few posts and guides but would be nice to share what i am doing and hear your opinions and advices too.

regarding the herb mixes. i was reading about several herbs that contain maoi, and i tried to pick them to use in my blend although i dont actually believe that in this small quantities they have a strong effect. but in my mix there are two of those : passiflora incarnata, and tribulus terrestris.

The base of my mix is mullein which is 40% - 400mg, and the other herbs respectively 15% - 150mg each of damiana, pepper mint, passiflora and tribulus.
So all in total it is 1g of dry herbs.

I want to make quite strong mix so i am planning to use 1g of freebase dmt - 1g of freebase harmalas (from rue seeds) and mix it with 1g of herbs.

So now few /advices/opinions/shared experiences from you would liek to get.

1. What is the best solvent to dissolve frebase aterial and infuse plant matter with? Right now i am equipped with acetone. Is this ok, or IPA alcohol would be better?

2. And what about the maoi content? I was thinking that maybe i would like to take some harmalas orraly before smoking changa, but if there will be not harmala overdose?
Or maybe i should have two blends. One changa just with dmt, and smoke it after ingesting harmalas, and the other with harmalas for just a pure changa experience?
Is 1g of harmalas ok, or as some people advices 300mg per 1g of deems works better?
What are your thoughts.

3. How do you smoke your changa? Is normal glass pipe is ok? or is it preffered as changa on tha bonga style?

Very interested to hear you're using tribulus herb. I only ever had the seeds and never sprouted them. In contrast to P. harmala, tribulus seeds are said to contain virtually no betacarbolines, but I was under the impression that the herb might. Have you ever looked at tribulus herb tea under UV light?


BTW, IPA is a rather poor solvent for (freebase) harmala alkaloids, ethanol would be better. I'm pretty sure their solubility in acetone is also on the meagre side, but as @Voidmatrix says, "FAFO" [And ofc methanol would be best 'but it's toxic' - so I can't recommend it to a novice, although it's not that toxic.]

 

[Voidmatrix]

Thanks @Transform . I meant to mention that one may need more ipa to dissolve the harmalas fully. That's been my experience.

 

[Kalitechnik]

Very interested to hear you're using tribulus herb. I only ever had the seeds and never sprouted them. In contrast to P. harmala, tribulus seeds are said to contain virtually no betacarbolines, but I was under the impression that the herb might. Have you ever looked at tribulus herb tea under UV light?

No not yet. I dont habe a blue light actually, i will have to get it since i want to start my journey into separating harmalas and gettin tth. once i will have it i might take a look at it.

BTW, IPA is a rather poor solvent for (freebase) harmala alkaloids, ethanol would be better. I'm pretty sure their solubility in acetone is also on the meagre side,

What about 99.5% IPA?

 

[pantostao]

I had never heard of this herb, but it does contain some harmala alkaloids

 

[Transform]

No not yet. I dont habe a blue light actually, i will have to get it since i want to start my journey into separating harmalas and gettin tth. once i will have it i might take a look at it.

What about 99.5% IPA?

There's a light-activated glue called Blufix that comes with a handy, powerful far-purple light that's good enough to activate harmala fluorescence

As @Voidmatrix suggests, you can use it but you'll have to use a rather large volume to dissolve all the harmalas, which can be inconvenient to evaporate. If that turns out to be the case, I'd suggest slowly dripping the solution of harmalas in IPA onto the dry herbs in order to minimise the amount that end up stuck to the glass. Evaporating a large pool of the solution would tend to leave 'tide marks', as well as attracting atmospheric moisture and (possibly) slowing down the evaporation process. The slow drip method seems worth mentioning, at least, if you're happy with a more hands-on approach.

 

[Kalitechnik]

There's a light-activated glue called Blufix that comes with a handy, powerful far-purple light that's good enough to activate harmala fluorescence

Thanx for the tip. Will the normal small uv torch will be enough? Or is not strong enough?

https://allegro.pl/oferta/latarka-led-uv-dlugopis-punktowa-magnes-tester-usb-policyjna-wojskowa-14255717594

Regarding IPA. Good i am asking since everywhere i read people seems to repeat that IPA or Acetone is good for making changa.
if you say that ethanol dissolves harmalas better that is valuable advice. Will be looking for some ethanol now.

I wonder what are other people experiences with this solvents.

 

[Transform]

Thanx for the tip. Will the normal small uv torch will be enough? Or is not strong enough?
https://allegro.pl/oferta/latarka-l...nes-tester-usb-policyjna-wojskowa-14255717594

A small torch will also be just fine. Before I got the Blufixx torch I was using a children's toy "spy pen" which was a UV-reactive 'invisible' ink and came with a tiny near-UV LED built in. If you can run the LED at a standard voltage it's quite useful for estimating harmala concentrations because the penetration depth of the UV beam is inversely proportional to the harmala concentration. I.e., when there are more harmalas in solution, the UV gets absorbed more readily, so the beam doesn't get as far. The fluorescent emission is, of course, conveniently observable from the side.

I wonder what are other people experiences with this solvents

Experience shows that IPA and acetone will work, but you have to use more for a given amount of harmala than you would with a better solvent.

Psychedelic Compounds Chemical and Physical Properties - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

Psychedelic Compounds Chemical and Physical Properties - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

Reasonably soluble in acetone (at 25°C, acetone can dissolve 4mg/ml mixed harmalas as this test shows) Soluble in ethyl acetate.

FWIW, I've found mixed freebase harmalas to be reasonably soluble in butyl acetate as well, but have yet to quantify it. This would be great for banana-flavoured changa

 

[Kalitechnik]

Experience shows that IPA and acetone will work, but you have to use more for a given amount of harmala than you would with a better solvent.

Psychedelic Compounds Chemical and Physical Properties - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

Psychedelic Compounds Chemical and Physical Properties - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

Now i got a litlle confused. You said earlier that ethanol would be better than IPA, but in the information you sent it says that ethanol dissolves 1,5mg/ml where acetone does 4mg/ml.

But Ethyl Acetate is mentioned as the one in which harmalas are soluble.
Is that mean that ethyl acetate is one of the best solvents for this purpose?

And if it is "acetate" does that mean it will convert harmalas to the salt form?

 

[Transform]

Now i got a litlle confused. You said earlier that ethanol would be better than IPA, but in the information you sent it says that ethanol dissolves 1,5mg/ml where acetone does 4mg/ml.

But Ethyl Acetate is mentioned as the one in which harmalas are soluble.
Is that mean that ethyl acetate is one of the best solvents for this purpose?

And if it is "acetate" does that mean it will convert harmalas to the salt form?

Looks like I was plain wrong - sorry for the confusion! Mostly I was imagining a sliding scale between IPA (poor) and methanol (better), with ethanol being in the middle. Good that you checked the data for yourself though

Acetate esters will not convert harmalas to a salt form [acetate] in the absence of an additional acid [acetic acid].

Solubility data for harmalas is an area which requires a considerable amount of additional work.

* 50ml of acetone can dissolve about 200mg of fairly clean harmala-freebase.

that's an awful lot of acetone for not very much harmala, if you ask me.

 

[Kalitechnik]

Super confusing. i found again few informations that ethanol is beter solvent then ipa or acetone to dissolve harmalas.
Endlessnes wrote:

"Drinking/grain ethanol will work better than acetone and IPA. Maybe vodka would work, dont know if it would leave a taste (for changa or whatever). Ethanol is not the best but quite better than acetone or IPA. The best solvents for harmalas are more toxic, like methanol and DCM. If you use them, make sure its properly dry before using (better let it soak again in some non denatured ethanol and let it air dry again for many hours to help getting rid of traces of those solvents)"

Some other user wrote:
"For SWIM ETOH (ethanol) is the easiest and savest solvent. It dissolves spice AND Harmalas, is food grade so ideal for making your preferred Harmala/Spice ratio and use one solution to make changa"

I guess i will have to give it a go, and compare it with ethyl acetate.

 

[Transform]

Drinking/grain ethanol will work better than acetone and IPA. Maybe vodka would work, dont know if it would leave a taste (for changa or whatever). Ethanol is not the best but quite better than acetone or IPA. The best solvents for harmalas are more toxic, like methanol and DCM. If you use them, make sure its properly dry before using (better let it soak again in some non denatured ethanol and let it air dry again for many hours to help getting rid of traces of those solvents)

DCM and chloroform are the solvents that dissolve harmala freebases well... I know it's frustrating that things like acetone (that dissolves the hell out of fb dmt!) is so crap with harmalas!

For SWIM ETOH (ethanol) is the easiest and savest solvent. It dissolves spice AND Harmalas, is food grade so ideal for making your preferred Harmala/Spice ratio and use one solution to make changa.

Good Luck

Sources for your quotes, plus a bonus one explaining that acetone isn't really optimal ^ (this is easily achieved by using the 'quote' button near the bottom right corner of each post, and also appears automatically as an option when highlighting any given section of text in a post. This gets passed into the 'multi-quote' function of the forum, and an 'insert quotes' button appears below the compose window [next to the 'attach files' button]. Clicking on that allows you to put your quotes into the desired order, and also remove any unwanted quotes.)

Glad you've dug in and done the reading, since that's the approach we're looking at cultivating.

 

[Kalitechnik]

Sources for your quotes, plus a bonus one explaining that acetone isn't really optimal ^ (this is easily achieved by using the 'quote' button near the bottom right corner of each post, and also appears automatically as an option when highlighting any given section of text in a post. This gets passed into the 'multi-quote' function of the forum, and an 'insert quotes' button appears below the compose window [next to the 'attach files' button]. Clicking on that allows you to put your quotes into the desired order, and also remove any unwanted quotes.)

Glad you've dug in and done the reading, since that's the approach we're looking at cultivating.

Thank you for the tip regarding quotes. I will have to learn it since its very nice feauture, and looks like when i will find something interesting i can store it as quote in my base of quotes

I have a question regarding ethanol. I want to buy it to make some comparison, but the pure food grate spirit for drinking is quite expenisive. I have a "contaminated" ethanol in my chemical supply lab grade stuff shop, and its way cheaper. The only thing is they contaminate it with 1,8% of BUTANON and 0.3% of Benzoesan Denatonium (the most bitter substance know to man, as a protection from not drinking it). Do you think it woul dbe safe to use it as a solvent for the changa?

 

[Transform]

Benzoesan denatonium – Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia

pl.wikipedia.org

Denatonium - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

MEK (butanone) is volatile, evaporating at roughly the same rate as ethanol. You'd probably be better off not adding denatonium benzoate to your changa as it may not be safe in pyrolysis. Cation exchange resin may get rid of it; distillation certainly would.

 

[Kalitechnik]

So i have been waiting for a while to order few solvents. When ethyl acetate came i got super excited. poured around 25ml and right away tossed 1g of harmalas. To my surprise nearly nothing melted. So i tried in another beaker 20ml and 100mg of harmalas, again nearly nothing. I got so pissed. Firstly that i got confused from the information in wiki that harmalas are soluble in ethyl acetate. Secondly that i did not checked it with smaller amount first. But it was stated in wiki, so i though....

Secondly i took ethanol. 99,8%. Poured 50ml in a beaker tossed 500mg and voila. Readilly disolved. Added some heat added addition 500mg. And voila. Dissolved nicely.

So added 1g of freebas dmt, mixed, dissolved and tossed some herbs. It looks still that there is so much solution compared to the amount of herbs.
will wait now for evaporation.

How long does it take to full evaporation? And can i use some heat to make it faster?

 

[Transform]

When ethyl acetate came i got super excited. poured around 25ml and right away tossed 1g of harmalas. To my surprise nearly nothing melted. So i tried in another beaker 20ml and 100mg of harmalas, again nearly nothing. I got so pissed. Firstly that i got confused from the information in wiki that harmalas are soluble in ethyl acetate. Secondly that i did not checked it with smaller amount first. But it was stated in wiki, so i though....

I think you have to heat EA to get it to dissolve harmala; also, was this freebase you were using?
I see that you heated the ethanol, though, so maybe you tried this with EA too?

How long does it take to full evaporation? And can i use some heat to make it faster?

Evaporation depends on temperature and airflow. A coffee warming pad or a scented wax heater (minus the scented wax, of course!) can be quite useful here, possibly more convenient than a water bath if you happen to have either.

You'll end up with some of the actives stuck to the beaker, which you'll probably want to dissolve in fresh warm solvent and drip onto the herbs again, Be sure to mix thoroughly in order to avoid 'hot spots'!

 

[Kalitechnik]

I think you have to heat EA to get it to dissolve harmala; also, was this freebase you were using?
I see that you heated the ethanol, though, so maybe you tried this with EA too?

Yes. I was trying to heat EA in a same heating device where at some point it started to boil for a sec. From my first observation it sucks as solvent for freebase harmalas. at leas compared to the ethanol.

Evaporation depends on temperature and airflow. A coffee warming pad or a scented wax heater (minus the scented wax, of course!) can be quite useful here, possibly more convenient than a water bath if you happen to have either.

I placed it outside in a sunny spot. 60ml evaporated in around 10h.

You'll end up with some of the actives stuck to the beaker, which you'll probably want to dissolve in fresh warm solvent and drip onto the herbs again, Be sure to mix thoroughly in order to avoid 'hot spots'!

I observed a little remnants in a beaker. Did not washed it with a solvent yet. I might try. I read somwhere that folks leave a bit of a herbs and the use it together with warm solvent to clean a beaker.

Anyway after 12h drying on a paper i weighted my product. Its 2,925. So i lost somhere around 100mg of harmalas + deems. Not bad at all, but i will try to clean the beaker and see how it will go.

In general i would say i am quite satisfied as for the first try, only a bit confused with the ethyl acetate thing. I think that some reliable source on solubility of harmalas would be nice to have around.

 

[Kalitechnik]

So i cleaned my beaker add solvent, and today i dried everything whole day on the sun.
Final weight 2,88.
So somwhere 120mg got lost in the process.

i just weighted 300mg of changa which should have around 100mg of seems and 100of harmalas, and damn it looks quite small.
it is a small tiny bit and i am a little "afraid" to give it a try. Is this not to strong?

 

[molek]

Just go slow with it. Tiny puffs and then increase. You can also mix some more herbs under this.