Changing your life through drugs

[Erase]

Younger people are always told that they shouldn't do drugs at their age, because it can change their personality/behaviour in the long run. It's supposed to sound like a bad thing, but isn't it actually neutral?

What I mean is that if you do change through the use of drugs, does it even matter how you would have turned out otherwise? And there's no guarantee that the change one may undergo is negative. I have personally not recognized any drugs that I've used to have a negative impact on my life, rather the opposite.
I can't even start to imagine how dull and boring everything would have been, if I wasn't introduced to cannabis 2 years ago.

But then again, it may just be that the drugs heighten the amount of fun that you require in order to normally have fun. I myself have found trouble hanging out with people when cannabis wasn't involved.
Is this a negative or a positive thing?
Personally, I've always had trouble socializing with people. Cannabis opened a door for me that allows me to socialize with others more easily. So I'm not even sure much has changed after all, perhaps it's just that drugs open doors rather than close them?

It can be seen from both sides, depending on the perspective you have on things. I don't think you can categorize it into negatives or positives seeing as it's all a matter of how you look at it. It's change, it's neutral. The impact of the change later on may be either good/bad/neutral, but I don't see how changing something in your life (drug consumption) to experience new things can be negative.

Obviously, the consumption of drugs may alter your health etc. But that's something you'd have to deal with along the way. And if you didn't consume any drugs, then you'd probably just be introduced to some other problems in your life instead.

My point is that we don't know what happens before we actually try it out for ourselves. There's no guarantee whether the change that you may go through later on due to your past decisions is negative or positive. It could be either, so why don't people just take the chance and stop listening to the opinions of others, when it's entirely one's own decision.

Listen to yourself and respond to your own body, rather than relying on others to take care of you.

 

[G]

Addiction or habituation of any drug can be detrimental to ones social, mental, and emotional wellbeing.
There is a spectrum of drug user {non functioning - functioning}
If one can use drugs while maintaining a job, relationships, and life's other responsibilities, i see little issue.

why don't people just take the chance and stop listening to the opinions of others

Some people would rather not risk exacerbating or activating mental illness. I've seen Cannabis
completely destroy the personality and mental well-being of many people. They become complacent,
lazy, paranoid, non-interactive.

Hallucinogens can cause severe delusions and grandeur which can cause a person to lose their touch with reality.
Because of my hallucinogenic research, I now have an extremely tenuous grasp on reality.
Turns out, i am predisposed to psychosis. I used drugs as a coping mechanism for social aniety and depression at a young age. Started with cannabis, dxm, led to harder drugs. Such was the worsening of my condition and reason for falling off for a few years....

i do hate to be 'That Guy' who is always yapping about himself,
hopefully my experience is relevant to your interests.
My ultimate point is that psychoactive drugs are not benign.
Oftentimes they do more harm than good.
They should be treated with extreme care.
They are not for everyone.

 

[Erase]

Addiction or habituation of any drug can be detrimental to ones social, mental, and emotional wellbeing.
There is a spectrum of drug user {non functioning - functioning}
If one can use drugs while maintaining a job, relationships, and life's other responsibilities, i see little issue.

why don't people just take the chance and stop listening to the opinions of others

Some people would rather not risk exacerbating or activating mental illness. I've seen Cannabis
completely destroy the personality and mental well-being of many people. They become complacent,
lazy, paranoid, non-interactive.

Hallucinogens can cause severe delusions and grandeur which can cause a person to lose their touch with reality.
Because of my hallucinogenic research, I now have an extremely tenuous grasp on reality.
Turns out, i am predisposed to psychosis. I used drugs as a coping mechanism for social aniety and depression at a young age. Started with cannabis, dxm, led to harder drugs. Such was the worsening of my condition and reason for falling off for a few years....

i do hate to be 'That Guy' who is always yapping about himself,
hopefully my experience is relevant to your interests.
My ultimate point is that psychoactive drugs are not benign.
Oftentimes they do more harm than good.
They should be treated with extreme care.
They are not for everyone.

I completely agree. Drugs can in some instances destroy a person mentally and/or physically. But I don't see how it differs from other areas in life. If you're taking something too far, it will eventually hit you. Too much physical work, and you'll end up with injuries that may never be repairable. Too much bad food can result in untreatable illnesses. I'm not exactly referring to extremism in my first post, but it certainly is something you should take in consideration as well, I agree.

I'd love to hear your story if you could share it at some point. Sounds relevant and applicable to myself, through your short description.

And indeed drugs, and everything else for that matter, should be treated with respect and care. The thing is that we live in an age where access to information about drugs etc. is easily accessible though.

 

[christian]

And indeed drugs, and everything else for that matter, should be treated with respect and care.

Everyday people will drink coffee to give them a lift, will eat a spicy curry for the chili hit, will eat chocolate, or reach for a glass of wine. Just some examples of how people enhance their repetative dull lifestyles with readily available 'legal drugs'.

In fact any 'drug', wether it's alcohol or a pill, etc. etc, has the possibility to help or hinder mankind. When things go wrong it's usually down to using the 'drug' in an abusive manner which may include trying to run away from problems that need to be faced, etc.

In the end it all comes down to being able to 'master' your life, by knowing and respecting yourself. I think when that is the case, that you are much more likely to search out for positive life enhancing experiences, and will certainly do your utmost so that it works out for the best.

 

[Amygdala]

I agree w/ previous posters that a good yardstick to measure the beneficial/detrimental impact of substances is functionality (school, work, bills, daily life activities, ability to hold relationships) as well as affect (general moods / mood swings? ) and balance/stability.

I have long wished that substances could be discussed w/ young adults responsibly in the same sense that adults try to impart respect for say driving a car. Automobiles are potentially incredibly dangerous machines if you think about it, as well as a boon to humanity. Fear mongering is not the most intelligent means of imparting respect for driving... if only substances could be talked about rationally in this same sense, there may be less lost souls.

In the West, (never experienced the east, don't mean to be biased), we do not have any real wisdom traditions surrounding substance use. Cannabis is equated w/ heroin (Schedule 1!), and I personally believe that if there were intelligent and HONEST discussions about the benefits and risks of different chemicals, there would be less gravitation towards the more dangerous spectrum. Just my 2c.

My only words of caution to young substance users (I started @ 13) is that I personally did not see the consequences begin to build until early adulthood when responsibilities increase and observation decreases. I thought that I was consequence free on a very large regimen of chemicals (that I wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole these days), until several years of use. Please keep in mind that

 

[anrchy]

The problem with kids using drugs at a young age is it often becomes a major hobby in which they focus way more attention towards. Cannabis for example can have that lazy additive to it often times. Unfortunately that becomes an attribute of there own characteristics and has also led to the stereotypical stoner. The kind that says "uhm" and "dude" a lot.

I feel like it does have effect on the development of the human brain at an early age but this has yet to be proven. I have seen proof of this in many people but again that is my own opinion and it is possible that I am wrong.

IME these tools are best used once you have acquired a foundation in your life as far as your personality and intellectual understanding of things goes. You wouldn't start doing tricks on your snowboard before you learn to ride the thing would you?

 

[christian]

Kids belong to school and their parents.

The Nexus is an adults forum, and we should be talking about adults. :?:

 

[Serge844]

Even though Nexus is an adults' forum, I still think we can debate on what anrchy said.

Let's not make judgments on young drug users. Some take drugs because their friends are taking drugs; some tried drugs to counter peer pressure; some take drugs "because it's cool"; some might experience difficulties in a sphere of their life and want to "freeze" their emotions. But maybe some spend years researching about drugs, take them in a safe environment; and why did they take them? Because they are curious, very curious.

You know, some adults will say all their life that drugs are bad, that they destroy people and blah blah blah, many will talk without having done research on the subject or even tried some.

Here's a definition of drug from Wikipedia(I could have a new thread about why I think that Wikipedia can be a good source...):
"A drug is a substance which may have medicinal, intoxicating, performance enhancing or other effects when taken or put into a human body or the body of another animal and is not considered a food or exclusively a food."

The term drug is vast, and many people forget that even chocolate is a drug. What I mean by that is that drugs are not bad (if we take the car example, cars aren't bad, some drivers are), some users are.

In the end, the drugs get blamed because of people not doing their research, not preparing themselves adequately or doing stupid stuff (ie. kids taking drugs in public and driving, while waiting for the effects to take place..).

 

[Michal_R]

Kids belong to school and their parents.

The Nexus is an adults forum, and we should be talking about adults. :?:

Yes, sure. Yet there are quite a few parents here among us, and the problem of "drug education" is one of the crucial moments in how to prepare young people for their own life based on their own decisions...

Christian: I understand your point, but I don´t necessarily agree with the statement that "Kids belong to school and their parents..." First, I don´t think that a person can "belong" to another person, not even a small kid (we can take care of another person, but it doesn´t "belong" to us). Second, I don´t think that schooling system gives "our" children the best education it possibly can. For example the mainstream "drug education" is a complete failure, also because it is based on cheap propaganda, not on an open transfer of truthful information.

I don´t think it is bad to publically discuss these issues (even at an "adults´ forum" )

 

[christian]

Sorry guys if i sounded like a bore. I just think that adults are in a much better position to make a choice than 'kids' are, especially when they are making their own money, and have their own place where they can 'do their own thang'?

Of course we could discuss the school education and who 'owns' kids, but that's another tangent. The thing is though, that parents have an obligation to be responsible for their kids, and that's why i thought that it's best we focussed on 'responsable adults' instead, (whatever that means).

 

[Serge844]

Let's not forget that adults were kids too.

Some learn faster, some learn slower, and some never learn.

I don't think you can categorize someone into the adult group, just because he is, for example, 35 years old. He could act like a savage and still be an "adult".

This is a touchy subject in my opinion, you do not become an adult just because you reach the legal age.

 

[DisEmboDied]

"Do nothing addictive or cancerous." -The entity of Being and Flow

He told me this.


People who do drugs probably would have done them anyways. It is a personality type to me, though not an excuse.


As long as it is done for the sake of consciousness experiments, that's all. Do it to make you smarter.

 

[G]

In fact any 'drug', wether it's alcohol or a pill, etc. etc, has the possibility to help or hinder mankind. When things go wrong it's usually down to using the 'drug' in an abusive manner which may include trying to run away from problems that need to be faced, etc.

Agreed. Some substances lend themselves to abuse more than others.
Advocates for drug use usually blame the so called 'addict' for misusing the drug.
Advocates against drug use will demonize the drug.

It's a bit of both in my opinion. People have varying levels of self control as well as abilities to delay gratification.
Some folks are more prone to addiction than others. I don't believe that a drug addicted person is forever an addict. Anyone can learn to self control.

 

[Pandora]

As a middle aged person with minors in my life, I have got to say I have a strong preference for youngsters to wait at least until the age of consent (18 in USA), or even better, when the brain is done developing, all fontanels sealed, etc, (typically about 25). The idea being that the work of youth is play and education. One should fill a mind with depth information, with fascinating stuff, BEFORE trying to alter it.

Now, having said that, I have not yet met a human being who can go through their life without regular alterations of consciousness. From nightly REM sleep to social drinking, to medical cannabis, to medicine chests full of prescriptions, to cigarettes, to coffee, to sugar, to . . . . . well, you get the idea, .

Understanding this, I find myself encouraging young people to try and wait, especially with DMT. If they have it, it's not going anywhere. Good to wait for a bit more age and if there is lots of stressors or any sort of mental health issues that are causing suffering, to defer until a point of additional stability (while sober) is achieved.


All of this is nothing but the personal opinions of one woman. I know that what sounds great in theory seldom works in practice and though I was 41 when I first tried DMT, I was in fact 18 when I first tried LSD.

 

[psilonautical]

I feel like it does have effect on the development of the human brain at an early age but this has yet to be proven. I have seen proof of this in many people but again that is my own opinion and it is possible that I am wrong.

It most certainly has an effect on the brain at an early age

Prenatal Marijuana Exposure and Neonatal Outcomes in Jamaica: An Ethnographic Study

This study is about pregnant mothers in Jamaica that smoked cannabis, and mothers that did not smoke cannabis, the exposed babies had the advantage.

Conclusions. The absence of any differences between the exposed on nonexposed groups in the early neonatal period suggest that the better scores of exposed neonates at 1 month are traceable to the cultural positioning and social and economic characteristics of mothers using marijuana that select for the use of marijuana but also promote neonatal development. Pediatrics 1994;93:254-260; prenatal marijuana exposure, neonatal outcomes, Jamaica, Brazelton scale supplementary items.

IME these tools are best used once you have acquired a foundation in your life as far as your personality and intellectual understanding of things goes. You wouldn't start doing tricks on your snowboard before you learn to ride the thing would you?

I couldn't agree more.

 

[psilonautical]

Pointless post, please delete. :d

 

[christian]

Let's not forget that adults were kids too.

Some learn faster, some learn slower, and some never learn.

I don't think you can categorize someone into the adult group, just because he is, for example, 35 years old. He could act like a savage and still be an "adult".

Serge, i understand what you are trying to say, but in Society comes responsability which included being in the position to understand all the implications of such behaviours, and how they may negatively affect ones future. Kids are not in a position of responsability, and are vulnerable because they are still learning about what is expected from them by society, etc.

For example, like Pandora said, it's not a good idea whilst a kid is in the development phase for a number of reasons. Hey, they are struggling to deal with learning to adjust to becoming an adult with those responsabilities, and going through puberty. That's a lot of stress to deal with, and something that needs to be faced, and not run away from.

When they are an independant adult, then they are in a better position to deal with other things, especially when they are 'on top' of their basic responsabilities. And yes, 'drugs' can enhance a persons life if used intelligently i suppose, and these 'drugs' include alcohol and prescribed medication, as well as other stuff like spicy foods, etc, etc...

For simplicities sake i'll give you an example of what i mean. Lets say a kid is about to start classes on advanced mathematics, he might be in a much better position to do any 'drug' when he's mastered the subject rather than before, and mess it all up. Now look at his future if he loses out on a dream career which needed good maths grades. He can't even think about it if he messes up because of taking 'drugs' at the wrong times, etc.

Mistakes like that can ruin lives, and people miss out on their dream jobs working with like minded people, buying a house, having a family, etc. That's what happens when people mess up with sorting out their priorities. So, yes, it's important to stress that i think kids can do without 'drugs', cos they have too much stuff to deal with, and they need to get it right before thinking about having their fun or nightmare'ish excursions.

If an adult fucks up, that's ok, because they knew the implications, and had enough chances in their life already, etc.

Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

 

[universecannon]

as far as the age thing goes, i think its kind of silly to even talk about unless the individual themselves and the context that the they are using the drug in is taken into account. After all, people use a lot of different drugs for a lot of different reasons, in a lot of different set/settings, and consequently get a lot of different results

There is a big difference between careful and beneficial use (as in the case of a youngster taking ayahuasca with his father in ceremony as is done in the amazon... and an 18 year old in the west carefully reading and preparing for a psychedelic journey) and abuse or experiences that influences them in mostly a negative way

I think one of the problems we have in this area in the west is that there is no socially accepted and integrated framework for working with entheogens in a positive context...the only thing most have for a reference point is alcohol culture and drugs that 'mess you up'. There's a lot of mental baggage perpetuated by our cultures delusional view of psychedelics and this can serve as a hurdle that needs to be understood and overcome before beneficial use can really begin...So I think really when it comes down to it, the aspects of the individual matters more than the age

personally i can't image where i'd be if i hadn't begun exploring my mind with marijuana and psychedelics in my teen years...They were key catalysts and allies for my unfolding path and intellectual development. I think people should just be careful and start slowly, doing what they feel is best for them at the time and not pushing things too much until they are well grounded...so that they don't bite off more than they can chew (integrate)

 

[xantho]

Kids are not in a position of responsability, and are vulnerable because they are still learning about what is expected from them by society, etc.

For simplicities sake i'll give you an example of what i mean. Lets say a kid is about to start classes on advanced mathematics, he might be in a much better position to do any 'drug' when he's mastered the subject rather than before, and mess it all up. Now look at his future if he loses out on a dream career which needed good maths grades. He can't even think about it if he messes up because of taking 'drugs' at the wrong times, etc.

christian, from reading your posts it appears to me that you place primary emphasis on society, and in particular the child's conformity to the dictates of society - which you identify as responsibilities. Your example further highlights this: good grades, a career, and a house are all identified as markers of success, while the failure to acquire these talismans is portrayed as undesirable. Now, while I realize that an individual's life may certainly generate less friction and turbulence when following the flow of society, I worry that this perspective denies the generative power of personal development and spiritual growth. In my opinion, ensuring that our children fit the mold offered up by society might ease their attainment of 'success' but severely limits our collective ability to change the very society that is impeding our symbiotic relationships with the Earth, other beings, and our Selves.

A child. The next generation. The most potent vessel of hopeful change and positive adaptation that we can muster. I wonder: What would happen if we put the child first, and society second?

Just a few thoughts from a childless, 20-something dreamer

P.s. Great post universecannon! I resonate with much of what you wrote.

 

[arcanum]

As a middle aged person with minors in my life, I have got to say I have a strong preference for youngsters to wait at least until the age of consent (18 in USA), or even better, when the brain is done developing, all fontanels sealed, etc, (typically about 25). The idea being that the work of youth is play and education. One should fill a mind with depth information, with fascinating stuff, BEFORE trying to alter it.

Well said Pandora. I messed up my happiness between the ages of 16-28 because of rushing in to "experimentation". Just glad my own son and daughter have no interest in that kind of thing, they will ultimately be better off for abstaining.

I don't know what to think however of teenagers in the Amazon being treated by Shamans with Ayahuasca for ailments of one kind or another. maybe that's different, but not sure of it..