cleaning enhanced salvia..for better experiance..

[starway7]

Ive found that the dark colored crap on salvia extracts 10 x..20x.. 40x and higher can be removed for a more mellow cleaner experiance reducing headaches after the experiance...

How i do this is to use a small shot glass or any other small glass contaner and put one dose or the whole batch of enhanced salvia into it then add enough grain alcohol to cover the material..

I then will stir the material once and a while and let it sit ..

The first time i did this ..i let it sit and soak overnight as an experiment.. i was trying to remove the actives in the leafe material to store as a tincture...

Just keep rinsing in alcohol till the leaf material looks grean not black!

But I found later after pouring off the dirty darkened alcohol and letting the now cleaned green leaf particles dry ... i at first thought i removed the actives in the leafe material and was making a tincture from the enhanced leaf...

I was expecting to find the leaf particles void of salvorian A ...but to
my surprise!.. after drying...i found the bright green leaf was still very potent!!8)

And smoking it it was far cleaner.. and mellower.. smoother experiance for me at least on a small dose...

I think this is a simple efective way to wash the solvents from this stuff to have a cleaner still potent product...

Plus ...The soaking [MAY] work as quickly as a couple hours? ... But just keep rinsing in new alcohol till the leafe material becomes green...

I was expecting the washed leaf material to be void of salvarian A...but i found the cleaned leafe material was still quite active and soo much smoother....

 

[starway7]

even if i loose a little salvorian A ..it seems the actives were fused into the leaf cell structure when the enhanced leaf was made and the ..alcohol wash.. just makes the product cleaner...

you still have the dark liquid in container if you want to use it ...
Modify message

 

[starway7]

oops! this time... i rinsed the enhansed leaf salvia too many times...

Now the leafe material is too weak for smoking...unlike my atempt a while back when i only left the salvia sit over night and rinsed it once...

Any way i think im left with a nice clear emerald green tincture after filtering out the black tar through some cotton...

atleast i have some nice looking tincture to try in diferent ways,,


[[[dont rinse the enhanced leafe more than twice ..or you will take all the actives out...!]]]

 

[Tony6Strings]

I had a frustrating experience trying to connect with/break through on salvia. Obtained a gram of supposed 20x extract and I've smoked through all of it with only the mildest pins and needles and slightly altered perception to show for it. No breakthrough. No zipper. I'm thinking perhaps my extract was bunk. It was very much on the black side of dark green.

Next time, I plan on starting with plain salvia leaf, and making the 20x myself. This is what I should have done the first time!!!

 

[Eaglepath]

I had a frustrating experience trying to connect with/break through on salvia. Obtained a gram of supposed 20x extract and I've smoked through all of it with only the mildest pins and needles and slightly altered perception to show for it. No breakthrough. No zipper. I'm thinking perhaps my extract was bunk. It was very much on the black side of dark green.

Next time, I plan on starting with plain salvia leaf, and making the 20x myself. This is what I should have done the first time!!!

You should take 10-15g of leave and chew them my friend.. dont swallow and dont spit it out.. just keep chewing.. when it starts.. just keep chewing)

 

[AiL762]

I had a frustrating experience trying to connect with/break through on salvia. Obtained a gram of supposed 20x extract and I've smoked through all of it with only the mildest pins and needles and slightly altered perception to show for it. No breakthrough. No zipper. I'm thinking perhaps my extract was bunk. It was very much on the black side of dark green.

Next time, I plan on starting with plain salvia leaf, and making the 20x myself. This is what I should have done the first time!!!

You should take 10-15g of leave and chew them my friend.. dont swallow and dont spit it out.. just keep chewing.. when it starts.. just keep chewing)

How were you able to chew that much???

I just recently got a half kilo of dried leaves as been wanting to do sublingual instead of smoking extracts like ive done previously.

Supposed to have been a good supplier, and going off erowids dosing, figured I'd start with a decent dose of 7grams which is over the recommended normal dose.

Had it sitting for 15min in a bowl of water, went and burshed and mouthwashed, got a strainer and poured out the water, and chewed for over an hour.

Barely felt like I was "calmer" or more relaxed but nothing else. Extremely let down as this was nonsense compared to even smoking a small bowl of weed. Also I can't even begin to imagine trying to chew and move around double that amount as your saying.

Any clue on wtf went wrong?

I'm thinking I may have used too much water and most stayed floating around in it? The water after those 15min did have this greenish brown lite tea look to it.

I'm thinking if trying to extract and create a resin and just hold that in my mouth instead?

 

[Loveall]

A known way to separate Salvinorin A and minimize impurities is with quick freezer cold acetone pulls.

Just FYI. Cheers.

 

[AiL762]

A known way to separate Salvinorin A with and minimize impurities is with quick freezer cold acetone pulls.

Just FYI. Cheers.

Sweet. Ty. Much better and significantly faster than the soft extract method was thinking of doing. This method you can just do sublingual right? Im trying to figure a way for not smoking. I have 20x extract for smoking that im happy with

 

[AiL762]

Also sorry starway for thread hijack, but since that other thread is super old and can't comment on, did have a couple other questions.

With the acetone pulls, wouldn't a better method just be to grind the leaves into a powder, then put it into a container of acetone and leave overnight in fridge instead of doing the pulls?

Imo sounds like have more time to absorb it all without doing a ton of quick rinses?

Then just proceed with the TEK as normal? And imo possibly just stop at the naphtha seperations. Seems not worth doing the IPA purification.

I know the wax method I was considering was about 1/4 teaspoon for a strong sublingual. As a pure powder, dosage must be tiny, can sublingual even work?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

With the acetone pulls, wouldn't a better method just be to grind the leaves into a powder, then put it into a container of acetone and leave overnight in fridge instead of doing the pulls?

No. With whole dried leaf, the actives are contained in the glandular capitate trichomes on the outside of the leaf. These are very amenable to being washed off with something in which they are preferentially soluble, compared to the other components within the leaf. A longer soak, even in the freezer, would result in pulling a greater proportion of the acetone-soluble material from the interior of the leaf. Short contact time favours extraction of the surface material.

That is the entire premise of the thread linked by Loveall.

You could by all means try an acetone pull on your enhanced material in your freezer overnight. Contributions to the furtherment of technical knowledge are always welcome

 

[Transition]

agreed downwardsfrom zero, that should be efficient to rip the salvorin A, fast washes for better quality. can salvorin a be extracted with Ice by any chance?

 

[AiL762]

With the acetone pulls, wouldn't a better method just be to grind the leaves into a powder, then put it into a container of acetone and leave overnight in fridge instead of doing the pulls?

No. With whole dried leaf, the actives are contained in the glandular capitate trichomes on the outside of the leaf. These are very amenable to being washed off with something in which they are preferentially soluble, compared to the other components within the leaf. A longer soak, even in the freezer, would result in pulling a greater proportion of the acetone-soluble material from the interior of the leaf. Short contact time favours extraction of the surface material.

That is the entire premise of the thread linked by Loveall.

You could by all means try an acetone pull on your enhanced material in your freezer overnight. Contributions to the furtherment of technical knowledge are always welcome

Gotcha. I thought the compound was also in the interior, interesting that its just external. Ive been reading up on the thread when I've gotten a chance. Think was barely on 2nd page and planning on finishing tonight.

But for sure, Especially if suggested to work on small amounts like 30g at a time, I have 500g so I can set a 30 vs 30 experiment. Just need the factors im willing to change up on.


Prob do first a 30 vs 30 of chopped leafs vs grinded, following the instructions to see what works better.

Then based on that results winner I'll do another 30 vs 30 of acetone rinses vs soak.

Any ideas another factor to try?

 

[AiL762]

agreed downwardsfrom zero, that should be efficient to rip the salvorin A, fast washes for better quality. can salvorin a be extracted with Ice by any chance?

Well I'm still skeptical about "better quality". It seems like its just the most time efficient approach.

I feel like rinses you'll leave stuff behind, but as mentioned you'll prob be picking more stuff up in general with a soak requiring a more important purification stage.

The question is, is the extra effort for more potential product worth it? Or is it so minimal that its not worth it?

No way is it better quality thats being contested imo

 

[Loveall]

agreed downwardsfrom zero, that should be efficient to rip the salvorin A, fast washes for better quality. can salvorin a be extracted with Ice by any chance?

Not that I'm aware of. Salvinorin A is not very soluble in plain water (~2.5 mg per 100ml at room temp estimated).

If you want to experiment, there is a possibility to try alkaline water. This was shown in a paper that was working with limonin (a furanolactone like Salvinorin A). See attached paper. Apparently, the mild base can reversibly open the limonin D ring (see image below, the D ring is simply the lactone ring) and make it water soluble. Note that this is highly experimental, it may not work at all.

If you really want to try it, what I would do is add water to the enhanced leaf, adjust the pH to 11, extract/filter after warming the water, and make acidic to (hopefully) reverse the D ring opening and collect what crashes, see if it is active.

For this to work, we are hoping that Salvinorin A will also become soluble in alkaline water like limonin does (see images below). This is unproven/unknown may fail. On the other hand, the lactone ring may open/close at it may work.

Purified Salvinorin is not usually used sublingually. You need to add stuff to it so it can get into the blood (there are a lot of interesting threads on the nexus on that, check it out). There are promising results, but nothing that is tested and true by many people.

 

[AiL762]

Ahh gotcha. Damn I was hoping it was that simple to use sublingually.

Guess I'm going back to following up on the soft extracts. These were the 2 I was trying to read up on and learn.

Enhanced sublingual salvia powder - Salvia Divinorum - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Salvia soft extract - Salvia Divinorum - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[AiL762]

This is the TEK I was planning on trying initially.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

agreed downwardsfrom zero, that should be efficient to rip the salvorin A, fast washes for better quality. can salvorin a be extracted with Ice by any chance?

That's an interesting idea - making a sort of salvia 'King Hassan' product, like ice water hash. Knock the trichomes off in ice water with a blender, strain and dry. Seems worth a try for someone with free access to sally leaves. Anyone ever heard of this being tried for S. divinorum?

This technique is relying on salvinorin A's insolubility in water, of course.

Not that I'm aware of. Salvinorin A is not very soluble in plain water (~2.5 mg per 100ml at room temp estimated).

If you want to experiment, there is a possibility to try alkaline water. This was shown in a paper that was working with limonin (a furanolactone like Salvinorin A). See attached paper. Apparently, the mild base can reversibly open the limonin D ring (see image below, the D ring is simply the lactone ring) and make it water soluble. Note that this is highly experimental, it may not work at all.

If you really want to try it, what I would do is add water to the enhanced leaf, adjust the pH to 11, extract/filter after warming the water, and make acidic to (hopefully) reverse the D ring opening and collect what crashes, see if it is active.

For this to work, we are hoping that Salvinorin A will also become soluble in alkaline water like limonin does (see images below). This is unproven/unknown may fail. On the other hand, the lactone ring may open/close at it may work.

Purified Salvinorin is not usually used sublingually. You need to add stuff to it so it can get into the blood (there are a lot of interesting threads on the nexus on that, check it out). There are promising results, but nothing that is tested and true by many people.

I'd advise against attempting hydrolysis like this as salvinorin A has two further hydrolysable groups (the methyl ester and the acetate ester) that which will be removed effectively irreversibly under the same conditions.

 

[Loveall]

Umm, good point DWZ, hydrolysis, that could be an issue.

I poked around and in 2015 a paper was published that used methanol for re-x after an acetone extraction (attached). That's something I've never seen tried before on the nexus (sorry if I missed it).

S. divinorum leaves were obtained and used only for research purposes. Plant material was harvested from Arges county, Romania. The samples were dried at 40C. For extraction was used analytical grade acetone and recrystallization was executed from methanol

 

[BecometheOther]

Am i missing something here? The original post seems like a very bad idea because the actives you want are soluable in the grain alchohol you are washing the leaves with, so that "dirty green alchohol" you are tossing contains your actives...?!

If you want a more mellow ride and easier smoke, just smoke plain leaf lol!

 

[Loveall]

Am i missing something here? The original post seems like a very bad idea because the actives you want are soluable in the grain alchohol you are washing the leaves with, so that "dirty green alchohol" you are tossing contains your actives...?!

If you want a more mellow ride and easier smoke, just smoke plain leaf lol!

It is my understanding that the OP wants to increase the ratio of Salvinorin to plant stuff. Plain leaf would not necessarily do that, only decrease the content of both and it seems ot would push the ratio in the wrong direction.

To change the ratio we have discussed known (proven) and new (unproven) avenues. Make sense?