Concerned

[outof.theashes]

I will try to restrain myself from going over the entire story of my life, but will include some traits that I feel may be significant for any response. Please excuse me if I sound a little intense, I have been on an overload of information, and feeling fairly dissociated from reality as my head swims with thought.

I am interested in trying DMT, but afraid of consequences (psychologically/socially not criminal). My primary question is whether or not people have felt LESS connected in their world after use. I am concerned that if I try, I might have experiences that make me retract further from people than I already do. You see, I do not feel that I fit in even when people like/love me. It isn't a matter of not liking/loving them, but feeling that I am on some different wavelength from others, somehow. Not that I am better, or smarter, more or less talented, just different. I don't think I'm "special", more that I feel like I am just not like others. As a child I thought I wasn't a human being. It is RARE for me to feel truly connected. I am not sociopathic, I have empathy and love helping people and have studied art therapy for my degree, have worked in treatment centers for teens and done a lot of volunteer work. I am deeply introspective and philosophical, I spend a great deal of my thoughts on thinking about relationships, human experience, personal growth, psychology, reality, spirituality, etc etc. These sorts of thoughts tend to keep others at bay, as I also tend to be unable to carry on conversations about mundane life, and always turn to "serious" subjects. This seems to put a lot of distance between myself and others, as most people tend to not want to constantly focus on "serious" topics. I feel estranged from intellectual people who are more inclined to have these conversations because I feel that I am not as intelligent, not as experienced, and have not had drug experiences that many of them have had. I have never used any recreational substances aside from occasional drinking (maybe once a month a couple drinks, or less than that) and a few times trying MJ (did not like it), but have often been "accused" of being naturally high in my thinking (interested in theory, concepts, as well as fantasy). I feel trapped outside of two ways of being, and believe I am missing a sense of groundedness.

At any rate, from what I have gathered, those who have successful experiences with DMT can have intense spiritual experiences.

On the one hand, I think it is possible that such experiences might help me integrate myself and have some answers and stability - groundedness - and have less concern about my relations to others and more security in whatever it is I am, whether truly connected or truly disconnected.

On the other hand, I fear that I will fall into a rabbit hole of thought that will be so much deeper than what I have already experienced that I will be pushed into an "insanity". It is all well and good if I am happy in my insanity, but I do not want to hurt the people who care for me by becoming something even more incomprehensible than I already am. God that sounds ridiculous.

I can only hope that in spite of my sounding incredibly ridiculous, the intention comes through and I will be able to find some help from some of you here.

 

[Bill Cipher]

Tread lightly. Your concerns are valid and justified.

 

[Enoon]

dear outof.theashes,

As Art has put so succinctly, your concerns are all valid.
In my personal experience I've seen a few people fall victim to delusional thinking and mild insanity, enhanced by their psychedelic use. As far as I can tell most of these were self induced and desired in a way though. People who wanted to believe in outrageous things used their experiences to feed these beliefs. It's not clear to me whether this happens consciously or subconsciously or a mix of both. I've never seen anyone become truly insane due to drugs though, and I hope I never have to, though I suppose if one tried really hard one could manage it as well. On the other hand if one tried really hard one could become insane from computer-overdose or working too much as well (or whatever one chooses, really).

Poison is in everything, and no thing is without poison. The dosage makes it either a poison or a remedy.

This quote is a very good one, though I would like to expand the idea of dosage to a more loose concept for use with psychedelics. In order to benefit from psychedelics rather than cause harm or regression there a few things to consider and that have to fit or be aligned in a proper manner.

- intention
- set / setting
- health
- clarity of mind / spirit / focus
- frequency of use
- integration
- desire and motivation
- fear, respect, love, fascination
- ...

I'm not saying you have to be healthy and clear minded if you want to do psychedelics, but it is good practice to bring the state of each of these things into awareness for an experience you want to *work* with. I'm sure there's more to consider and it will depend on the situation and person - I'm just throwing out ideas and personal preferences here.

What you say about not fitting in, feeling different or deviant - I can relate to well. Even in groups of people that have done psychedelics I often feel like I'm not one of them. And with people that haven't it's always a given. And yet I don't think the company is any less valuable. I just have trouble relating. I don't think it comes from drug use. I feel the same way as you described, often wanting to get into deeper subjects but unable to get there. Then sometimes when finally we get onto the subjects things move too fast for me, people are just flying by the different concepts dumping their opinions out and I'm too slow in constructing my complex and intricate thought patterns that I want to relay to the outside world - while in the mean time the topic has changed and I have to swallow it all down again... True story. :?

I don't think you will be pushed into insanity. I think psychedelics can reveal and disclose, give you profound understanding of understanding and unveil the intensity of the connections you really have. These thins might be hard to communicate, but these are the limits of our language anyway. Whether we make our path of personal growth using entheogens or contemplation or mathematics, at some point it will be hard to speak of the things that lie very deep. But not all things have to be communicated directly - psychedelics are fantastic for personal growth and the experiences themselves need not be related at all, nor does the result have to be put into words. The way it transforms you in your every moment of being, this is what will reverberate through your surroundings. And how it transforms you depends mostly on you and where you are steering it. So I think if you are looking for connection and compassion, more intensive being in the moment or higher awareness, psychedelics will offer some help in moving towards that. They will however not do the work for you. They have the capability to tear you apart and put you back together again, or let you do it yourself; from personal experience, I have never come back down from a psychedelic journey feeling more estranged than before. Usually I feel more connected and more whole, more myself, more alive. With the right attitude the experiences help me feel less separated from the world around me, even though I see the evidence of my deviation every day. Still I am part of a higher complex, and so I am connected and working for the greater good.

I don't know if I helped with my rambling...
I hope you make an informed decision about this and don't regret it. Personally I doubt you will regret it, if you try it.

cheers & love
Enoon

 

[DMTripper]

Welcome to the nexus. It's probably the best place on the whole internet to ask these questions. You're in the right place But on the other hand no one can tell you what to do. At the end it's up to you.
I always tell people to start with mushrooms before they go for a full DMT blast. Maybe it's because I had a lot of experience with shrooms before I did DMT and I would not have wanted to DMT as a first psychedelic.
I don't find DMT a good thing to work with. Shrooms are more of a medicine for me. But I've yet to try DMT in Ayahuasca.

But I think you should ask yourself one question: Do you want to be yourself or are you going to try to always be someone that fits into your family or what ever group you're in at any given moment.
I'd do the psychedelics in your steps. I have a very positive experience with psychedelics. I've had some extremely difficult trips in my life but they can be very beneficial. I've felt very disconnected after some trips but it can just take some time to ground yourself after a trip. There are tricks for that. Like physical exercise and sweat. Sweating is my way of grounding myself. It can take time but it's worth it.

So my advice would be to go for it but start with a low/medium dose of shrooms.

Good luck

 

[Rooftop]

Hello!:d You sure sound like a very nice and considerate person, your volunteering and work in art therapy only confirms this.

My primary question is whether or not people have felt LESS connected in their world after use. I am concerned that if I try, I might have experiences that make me retract further from people than I already do.

These are indeed legitimate concerns. I have experienced both feelings after use: sometimes more connected to the world, sometimes less. Although my connection to Nature has surely permanently increased after using Power Plants.

Sometimes, the experiences fired up beautiful, long lasting feelings of love, compassion, unity and openness to all people that crossed my path, and that was good and simple.

But sometimes, it has been a real challenge to come back and function in the mundane relations and conversations due to spaced out euphoric feelings of transcendentalism, and as I look back, I see that I was quite simply overwhelmed at times, and had trouble finding common ground with lots of people. This was especially usual for me when smoking pot, and imho it's probably good that you don't enjoy it. I also happened to be quite judgemental and "overlooking" in these moments. Life has since then showed me that I can always find something to share with anyone, if only I stay open and tolerant.

So who knows what might happen with you? Maybe it's just what you need to help you get closer to people, or maybe it'll make you want to hide in a cave away from everyone.

Now if ever you decide to partake, I would dare advise you to start with very low doses, and to do so in the company of someone you trust and love, in Nature if possible.

Be strong and safe, whatever you do

 

[Felnik]

I agree mushrooms are a good starting point .

 

[breakMYhead]

I noted many similarities between you and I.

Who knows what the experience will show you.

But in my experience it is possible it may (in the short term) leave you feeling further alienated.

It may shake you in ways you never imagined... And its hard to reconcile it with your regular life.

Thats why integration is a favoured theme round these parts. And people here will help.

Safe travels.

 

[outof.theashes]

Great responses, thank-you all so much for taking the time to read my post and write back. Enoon, I particularly connected with your response. Reading from you was like listening to a part of myself deep within me that has the sensibility and wisdom to make a good choice. Thanks so much for that.

DMTripper, you wrote:

But I think you should ask yourself one question: Do you want to be yourself or are you going to try to always be someone that fits into your family or what ever group you're in at any given moment.

I can see where you would read that from what I wrote. To an extent, I do subdue myself. I know that in theory I could say,"to hell with anyone who can't accept me for me!", but then - that wouldn't be me! I know that people judge, but I also know that people judge what they don't understand or haven't had positive experiences with. They've been trained to think it isn't possible to understand or have positive experiences with certain people/ideas/etc and maybe I am too nice, but I let it slide a lot of the time. Some people are very loving and good, but have some grievance about a certain topic or what have you. I don't mind giving that to them.

(Huh... on a much more personal and irrelevant to the point note, I just thought to myself where I was going with the above and realized that some part of me must not think that all of my goodness is enough for people to lovingly accept the things/beliefs I do/have that they may not agree with. Also and/or some part of me probably withholds myself so that don't have to face judgment to test that, and that if I actually engaged someone I care for/vice versa and they disagree with my beliefs/ways it would point out flaws in both - my flaw for doing what I do, and their flaw for being judgmental. Heh.)

Well, whether out of kindness or cowardice, I do hold back my true self in a way. Most people I am close with know one side, or a few sides, but not everything. I would prefer to be a chameleon than alone.

Seems pretty normal, though.

Back to the original topic, I think that I would want to have a very intense experience so long as the intensity is valuable. If I come away from the experience more awakened to personal truth, then I believe I would be able to accept whatever comes with it.

I have read of "beings" appearing who give information, and that they reflect whatever the user leans to instinctively (gods, elves, aliens, etc). I believe that I have already been tuned into them (whatever they are) from childhood until now through art and my raw imagination and a lifelong awareness of symbolism, and interests in mystical things. I have had some good, and some nightmarish thoughts already with no recreational drugs to guide me. I am very interested in finding out if my imagination will match a DMT experience, and whether I will walk away feeling awakened.

It sounds to me that the majority walk away awakened.

I would be happy to get more responses, thanks again.

 

[Wave Rider]

You sound like myself.

I cannot say what psychedelics will or will not do for you or whether or not you should take them, I can only relate my own experiences.

I have learned a lot from ayahuasca, and if it is answers you seek, you'll get plenty from aya. This isn't to say that you can ask it a question and it will reply, it has never really worked like that for me. For me, aya has answered questions that are relevant to my life that I may have been wondering about for a while, but didn't necessarily ask. As another member put it, sometimes the answer can render the question invalid, or something to that effect. I haven't been able to learn very much from vaporized dmt though, but many have. It seems to "fast" for me to learn, but it is still fun. Maybe one day...

One of the things that I am in the process of learning is love and understanding of other people. While this may put me more "incomprehensible" to them, if they were to know, it puts them more comprehensible to me. I find it easier to connect to people if you know where they are coming from and if you approach the situation with love and understanding. If this is what you mean by "groundedness" then I am learning to be grounded. This usually happens for me, in the afterglow of the experience. During the experience, grounded is not an adjective that could describe it.

This is in reference to ayahuasca; every enthogen is different. I have experienced the "rabbit hole of thought" on other enthogens, but ayahuasca seems more like being dunked in an ocean of feelings-of-communication. I tend to keep my rational mind throughout, there isn't really a mindfuck factor like I get from LSD or mushrooms. Others may have different experiences though.

Hope I helped you at least a teeny tiny bit.

Do your research and listen to others on this forum; most know far more than me and are happy to help.

 

[DMTripper]

Great responses, thank-you all so much for taking the time to read my post and write back. Enoon, I particularly connected with your response. Reading from you was like listening to a part of myself deep within me that has the sensibility and wisdom to make a good choice. Thanks so much for that.

DMTripper, you wrote:

But I think you should ask yourself one question: Do you want to be yourself or are you going to try to always be someone that fits into your family or what ever group you're in at any given moment.

I can see where you would read that from what I wrote. To an extent, I do subdue myself. I know that in theory I could say,"to hell with anyone who can't accept me for me!", but then - that wouldn't be me! I know that people judge, but I also know that people judge what they don't understand or haven't had positive experiences with. They've been trained to think it isn't possible to understand or have positive experiences with certain people/ideas/etc and maybe I am too nice, but I let it slide a lot of the time. Some people are very loving and good, but have some grievance about a certain topic or what have you. I don't mind giving that to them.

(Huh... on a much more personal and irrelevant to the point note, I just thought to myself where I was going with the above and realized that some part of me must not think that all of my goodness is enough for people to lovingly accept the things/beliefs I do/have that they may not agree with. Also and/or some part of me probably withholds myself so that don't have to face judgment to test that, and that if I actually engaged someone I care for/vice versa and they disagree with my beliefs/ways it would point out flaws in both - my flaw for doing what I do, and their flaw for being judgmental. Heh.)

Well, whether out of kindness or cowardice, I do hold back my true self in a way. Most people I am close with know one side, or a few sides, but not everything. I would prefer to be a chameleon than alone.

Seems pretty normal, though.

Back to the original topic, I think that I would want to have a very intense experience so long as the intensity is valuable. If I come away from the experience more awakened to personal truth, then I believe I would be able to accept whatever comes with it.

I have read of "beings" appearing who give information, and that they reflect whatever the user leans to instinctively (gods, elves, aliens, etc). I believe that I have already been tuned into them (whatever they are) from childhood until now through art and my raw imagination and a lifelong awareness of symbolism, and interests in mystical things. I have had some good, and some nightmarish thoughts already with no recreational drugs to guide me. I am very interested in finding out if my imagination will match a DMT experience, and whether I will walk away feeling awakened.

It sounds to me that the majority walk away awakened.

I would be happy to get more responses, thanks again.

Hello!:d You sure sound like a very nice and considerate person, your volunteering and work in art therapy only confirms this.

My primary question is whether or not people have felt LESS connected in their world after use. I am concerned that if I try, I might have experiences that make me retract further from people than I already do.

These are indeed legitimate concerns. I have experienced both feelings after use: sometimes more connected to the world, sometimes less. Although my connection to Nature has surely permanently increased after using Power Plants.

Sometimes, the experiences fired up beautiful, long lasting feelings of love, compassion, unity and openness to all people that crossed my path, and that was good and simple.

But sometimes, it has been a real challenge to come back and function in the mundane relations and conversations due to spaced out euphoric feelings of transcendentalism, and as I look back, I see that I was quite simply overwhelmed at times, and had trouble finding common ground with lots of people. This was especially usual for me when smoking pot, and imho it's probably good that you don't enjoy it. I also happened to be quite judgemental and "overlooking" in these moments. Life has since then showed me that I can always find something to share with anyone, if only I stay open and tolerant.

So who knows what might happen with you? Maybe it's just what you need to help you get closer to people, or maybe it'll make you want to hide in a cave away from everyone.

Now if ever you decide to partake, I would dare advise you to start with very low doses, and to do so in the company of someone you trust and love, in Nature if possible.

Be strong and safe, whatever you do

Well I think I misunderstood you a bit. 'Cause I agree. I too need to be a chameleon in a certain way. Well if I told everyone who I am on all levels I'd probably be in jail hehe
But in character I pretty much stay the same. Ofcourse you need to act according to circumstances.

 

[Enoon]

Personally I believe that being a chameleon is a compromise we should not be making. I think it's caused enough suffering and a mentality that is not very progressive and helpful for our future.

The fears that our authentic and real self will not be accepted might stem from experiences in which we were never fully our authentic self. That is to say, we have no direct experience of what it would be like to always be fully there and fully in the whole of ourselves, and what the response of the world around us would be.
Personally I believe that it would bring clarity to all interactions and that it would be very well received. We just have to figure out what the true self is, and what the neurotic or fear-born quirks are, that we could easily (not to say that it is easy) put aside. So finding the true self, and then practising it into permanent existence, whether through psychedelics, meditation, contemplation, sky-diving or whatever other technique or combination of techniques work for you, is - for me - the motivation. I think psychedelics can be a reasonable asset in this endeavor.

cheers & love
Enoon

 

[Shaggy Shaman]

Good advice all the way around. I agree too, in starting with mushrooms.

As for being grounded, have you ever worked with crystals? Try meditating while holding some tourmaline or smoky quartz. Many people don't feel crystal energies right away or ever, but you don't know until you try. My introduction to stones as a medicine was in a bar during a panic attack I was having from taking on the energies of all the people around me. This really nice fellow said, "You need one of these!", pulled this HUGE chunk of black tourmaline out of his pocket, then explained how the stone helped ground him. I tried it, it worked, and I have now been working with stones/crystals for years.

I also really agree with Enoon's last post. IME, being your authentic self makes you happier and naturally attracts people who resonate with that energy, the people around you now who do not resonate with that energy fall away. Practise detachment and mindfulness, while keeping in mind that the only constant is change. This greatly alleviates any suffering. Be patient. With your self and others. Finding myself in an "isolated" setting does not cause me to struggle for company or acceptance, I use the time to focus on my personal projects. When I'm caught up with a group, I roll with that too. A really big lesson I was taught in Peru w/ Ayahuasca was SURRENDER. Surrender to the medicine, surrender to the will of the spirits.

It really feels good to be at peace, no matter the setting.

And to answer the question in your first post, yes working with many different medicines at many different times has GREATLY helped me get to this place in my life. It wasn't always easy, sometimes it still gets hard, but in the over-all big-picture, it all works out GREAT. For me anyways.

Welcome to the Nexus!

 

[opekone1988]

I completely agree with the rest of the posts here. Having tried Shrooms, LSD and DMT.. Def start with Shrooms. DMT can be a bit too much if you never had any psychedelics before. Like someone else had put it to me before.. Shrooms and LSD can be compared to a roller coaster ride but DMT is more like a rocket ship ride.
And just to state, being different isnt a bad thing.. Imagine a world where everyone were the same (Boring)

 

[xebiche]

There is a solution for everything. DMT will Alienate you Socially. This will then lead you through your own psychological minefield. This is what happens when you try to talk shop. I have found that spiritual poeple are the worst lot to discuss DMT with. They adhere the most stubbornly to their pseudo.

Here is the solution. Become a person of great esteem. Become someone who people want to listen to. Become accomplished mentally and PHYSICALLY. The mind becomes beatiful through meditation and Karmic practices. The body becomes beautiful through Resistance Training. DMT should give us the inspiration to maximally honor these mental/physical houses of ours. However I am driven by another motive. I have seen so many people run the other direction at the mere mention of DMT. But NOBODY runs from a Beautiful person. They clamour to get next to them, and they become eager to listen lest loose their spot.

Honor your body and mind and the Game will change drastically.
We create our own Vibrations.
Vibrations are our attractive force in the Universe.

 

[LoneWanderer]

outof.theashes -

First off, your concerned are not invalid. As a person, you sound like someone that SWIM can relate to on so many levels. Before ever doing any drugs, SWIM had a hard time carrying out conversations... it seemed foreign, awkward. The fact that you mention introspection also hits home with SWIM. Honestly, your words are best - on a different wavelength. I can tell from what you have written that you are a very considerate person, and also very intelligent, though SWIM knows what it is like to still feel dwarfed around others. I couldn't be sure, but I would also say that a large part of what holds you back is self esteem, whether at a conscious level or subconscious.

SWIM has felt very severe dissociative effects in the days following the use of many psychoactive substances, especially research chems in the 2C family, though sometimes SWIM has also had these feelings days following the use of LSD. On the other hand, SWIM has never had effects like this following the use of DMT. In fact, in SWIM's experience, the effects have been quite the contrary. The use of DMT has helped slingshot SWIM into a more happy, more capable person. The person aims to be very much the person described in xebiche's post.

For SWIM, whereas some psychoactive substances have been difficult to cope with during and after, DMT has been a wholly positive experience. Not without difficulty, but never with negativity.

Best wishes to you regardless of decisions you make. Positivity.

 

[DMTripper]

SWIM has felt very severe dissociative effects in the days following the use of many psychoactive substances, especially research chems in the 2C family, though sometimes SWIM has also had these feelings days following the use of LSD. On the other hand, SWIM has never had effects like this following the use of DMT.

I can relate to that. I feel more connected to life and others after most trips.
But one question to LoneWanderer. Have you used mushrooms? You don't mention shrooms here.

 

[SKA]

DMT is a wonderfull introspection tool. It can help you overcome your own insanity by becomming aware of it.
It could be very possible that you're not ready for such an intense experience yet. Don't worry and don't hurry.
Your intuition will let you know when you ARE ready for it; When you think of smoking DMT and, appart from reasonable excitement, no deep fear arises with this thought.

You are allready on a healing path since you were Conscious enough to recognise your own weaknesses and inadequacies; Only Sanity can recognise Insanity for what it is.
Many people cannot recognise their own Insanity because they view life from that very same, insane point of view. So your ability to recognise your own unconsciousness & disfunctionability goes to show there is allready a deep self-realisation & sanity present in you. Please realise you are blessed with this sane, objective viewpoint you have of yourself.

DMT would serve to deepen that realisation and to further unfold the arising Sanity in you. Whenever you feel/know that you are ready for the experience.

 

[LoneWanderer]

SWIM has felt very severe dissociative effects in the days following the use of many psychoactive substances, especially research chems in the 2C family, though sometimes SWIM has also had these feelings days following the use of LSD. On the other hand, SWIM has never had effects like this following the use of DMT.

I can relate to that. I feel more connected to life and others after most trips.
But one question to LoneWanderer. Have you used mushrooms? You don't mention shrooms here.

SWIM has only had one mushroom experience, which he found very mild. Maybe it's because he started with the most powerful and worked his way down to the least, or maybe the shrooms he got were old or not very good quality. He does plan on experimenting with shrooms once again when warmer months come round. I did not mention shrooms because SWIM does not feel he has enough experience in the area to provide any useful advice on the subject, though he's always interested in hearing what others have to say.

 

[Ihrhase]

SWIM has only had one mushroom experience, which he found very mild. Maybe it's because he started with the most powerful and worked his way down to the least, or maybe the shrooms he got were old or not very good quality. He does plan on experimenting with shrooms once again when warmer months come round. I did not mention shrooms because SWIM does not feel he has enough experience in the area to provide any useful advice on the subject, though he's always interested in hearing what others have to say.

SWIM has a lot to say about shrooms...

If it was too mild you did not do enough of them...
SWIM has been on "Mr. Frogs Wild Ride" with them so to speak, and he can tell you he is always impressed by what the teacher has to say. With that there are methods which promote less active deterioration than others...

 

[DMTripper]

SWIM has felt very severe dissociative effects in the days following the use of many psychoactive substances, especially research chems in the 2C family, though sometimes SWIM has also had these feelings days following the use of LSD. On the other hand, SWIM has never had effects like this following the use of DMT.

I can relate to that. I feel more connected to life and others after most trips.
But one question to LoneWanderer. Have you used mushrooms? You don't mention shrooms here.

SWIM has only had one mushroom experience, which he found very mild. Maybe it's because he started with the most powerful and worked his way down to the least, or maybe the shrooms he got were old or not very good quality. He does plan on experimenting with shrooms once again when warmer months come round. I did not mention shrooms because SWIM does not feel he has enough experience in the area to provide any useful advice on the subject, though he's always interested in hearing what others have to say.

You say DMT has a good effect on you different from LSD. You should definitely explore shrooms more. And go for a proper dose. I don't like shrooms much now in low doses. I don't trip often but when I do I like to go for a quite high dose. And if I don't combine anything with it, the afterglow can last me for weeks after some trips. But smoking pot on the trip or when coming down takes away most of the afterglow from me.