TEK Converting CBD to THC using only Zeolite and heat.

[Varallo]

I'm intrigued to try and pin down the somewhat variable results I'm seeing ( always good, sometimes literally stunningly good ) and have got hold of a pro test TLC kit, intending to investigate what ratios of cannabinoids I'm getting.

However the supplier of the kit was unable to send me the eluent (chloroform) as it's a controlled substance where I live.

So I'm here to ask TLC gurus, that might hang around here, whether there is an alternative eluent I could use that might be more readily available. I understand that the gauges and rulers supplied with the kit would probably be fairly useless, but I'm only after comparative results between my occasional zeolite bakings anyway.

Any ideas? I can get hold of normal household solvents such as isopropyl alcohol, ethanol, plus other lab and industrial solvents that aren't associated so much with abuse.

Thanks! Frac4

I’m not sure what country you’re in but most of the time small quantities of chloroform are usually not a problem and can sometimes be obtained from places where they manufacture plexiglass stands and such. The closest alternative would be DCM, it’s sold here by the liter in polyester and epoxy shops.
Other than that, if your a bit chemistry minded you could perhaps try the haloform reaction, it works well, don’t forget to stabilize it with ethanol and don’t breathe it in since it’s carcinogenic.

 

[fractals4life]

I'm in the UK and it seems chloroform is only available to educational establishments and legit businesses, of which I am neither, plus I want to try and fly a bit under the radar at least, so no setting up of legal entities just to obtain a few mil of something controlled

DCM does seem to be available as plastic cement. So I'll pursue that avenue, thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

 

[Transform]

Make chloroform from acetone or ethanol, plus sodium hypochlorite (bleach)? Videos exist online for this very simple reaction (keep it cold!)

[EDIT: I see this is what varallo said - namely the haloform reaction.]

 

[THanoC]

I'm intrigued to try and pin down the somewhat variable results I'm seeing ( always good, sometimes literally stunningly good ) and have got hold of a pro test TLC kit, intending to investigate what ratios of cannabinoids I'm getting.

However the supplier of the kit was unable to send me the eluent (chloroform) as it's a controlled substance where I live.

So I'm here to ask TLC gurus, that might hang around here, whether there is an alternative eluent I could use that might be more readily available. I understand that the gauges and rulers supplied with the kit would probably be fairly useless, but I'm only after comparative results between my occasional zeolite bakings anyway.

Any ideas? I can get hold of normal household solvents such as isopropyl alcohol, ethanol, plus other lab and industrial solvents that aren't associated so much with abuse.

Thanks! Frac4

i wonder why they use Chloroform as an Eluent..
chloroform's eluting power is nothing special.


Now for cannabinoids specifically, the better option for TLC would be a mixture of Hexane and Diethyl Ether, which even allows for separation between carboxylated and decarboxylated cannabinoids, But the simplest and widely used in literature alternative would be methanol.

However, my suggestion would be to test your sample using the kykeon analytics mail-in lab testing for drugs service, which would cost you pretty much the same as these Test kits of unknown Quality.

stay safe and DYOR.

 

[Transform]

i wonder why they use Chloroform as an Eluent..
chloroform's eluting power is nothing special.
View attachment 101806

Now for cannabinoids specifically, the better option for TLC would be a mixture of Hexane and Diethyl Ether, which even allows for separation between carboxylated and decarboxylated cannabinoids, But the simplest and widely used in literature alternative would be methanol.

However, my suggestion would be to test your sample using the kykeon analytics mail-in lab testing for drugs service, which would cost you pretty much the same as these Test kits of unknown Quality.

stay safe and DYOR.

Wouldn't chloroform have a similar resolving power to ether+hexane, since it lies between the two on the chart.

 

[fractals4life]

i wonder why they use Chloroform as an Eluent..
chloroform's eluting power is nothing special.
View attachment 101806

Now for cannabinoids specifically, the better option for TLC would be a mixture of Hexane and Diethyl Ether, which even allows for separation between carboxylated and decarboxylated cannabinoids, But the simplest and widely used in literature alternative would be methanol.

However, my suggestion would be to test your sample using the kykeon analytics mail-in lab testing for drugs service, which would cost you pretty much the same as these Test kits of unknown Quality.

stay safe and DYOR.

Great info, thanks!

I just realised I have ethanol already, in the form of "polish spirit" at 96.5% absolute ... worth a go, do you think?

Also am I right in assuming greater "eluting power" means the fractions travel further and get separated by larger distances?

Happy new circumsolar revolution everyone

 

[Transform]

Also am I right in assuming greater "eluting power" means the fractions travel further and get separated by larger distances?

Not quite - if the solvent power is too great, all the Rf's of interest risk getting squashed together, making for a less satisfactory separation. Hence, a mediocre solvent like chloroform may be favorable under some circumstances. Solvent mixtures are often used to optimise separation, since there's not really one single magically optimal solvent.

 

[haskel]

Anyone tried with ZnCl2 instead of zeolite? From what I read it should requires a much smaller quantity and might be easier to get rid of than the zeolite. It may also be a stronger catalyst and give better yields, but I'm not sure.

 

[eskacz]

I also have a question. Can i use just PG or PV to filter zeolit from cbd/thc instead of etanol and just will be left with vape solution/ can i use some vegetable oil instead of etanol, and i will be left with consumable oil ? Pure Etanol is highly restricted in my country and pretty expensive. I just thoght about that PG or vegetable should absorb cannabinoids and leave zeolit. But i might be pretty wrong.
I've read whole thread but i don't remember if someone tried or talked about that

 

[fractals4life]

You can use isopropyl alcohol to dissolve out the product, then let it settle and decant off the top of the settled zeolite, then filter.

You can then evaporate off the isopropyl alcohol to leave a clear sticky product that should dissolve in PG / VG.

VG and PG are probably too viscous to happily filter, or to let the zeolite settle out in a practical time scale, but I've never tried.

 

[eskacz]

You have similar thoughts to mine about this idea. Thanks for the recommendation! I think I'll just go on a city trip to look for drinkable 96/95% ethanol in a smaller quantity, like 100 ml, just to do it "properly".

 

[fractals4life]

Isopropyl alcohol isn't much more toxic than ethanol TBH, so don't worry if you can't get ethanol. Pure isopropyl is very available and pretty cheap where I am.

Avoid methanol though, that stuff is really nasty! Good luck!

Also, for eating the product, you can just eat the zeolite too, it's fine to eat (with something fatty to aid bioavailablilty), you just don't want to be inhaling it on a regular basis because zeolite is very fine stone dust.

 

[eskacz]

Thanks, bro!


Honestly, I thought IPA was much more toxic than ethanol. If I don't find ethanol on the spot, I'll just order IPA.


No worries, I've heard plenty of stories about methanol—I’ll definitely avoid that one.


To be honest, I'm planning to vape or eat it about once or twice a week or every two weeks, so I hope it won't be a big issue. Reading through this thread, I’ve seen people mention that separating fine zeolite dust is quite difficult.

I’ll definitely share how my first batch turns out next week.
Cheers

 

[modern]

The thing about IPA is how it reaches purity over the azeotrope with water. In the USA about 80% do this via adding benzene which is toxic. Even if distilled will remain a small portion. IPA is also slightly toxic on its own if not evaporated well like in oils/goos your body makes it acetone but large amounts are toxic. There are different methods and some countries have 'safer' isopropanol than others.

For small amounts it honestly doesn't matter just make sure to evaporate your material as well as possible.

 

[eskacz]

I have 99.9% uncontaminated IPA available at a pretty cheap price, so this shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for your knowledge, guys!

 

[modern]

I have 99.9% uncontaminated IPA available at a pretty cheap price, so this shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for your knowledge, guys!

Just adding context... in Brazil we use a different method that doesn't require benzene to pass the azeotrope... that .1% may be benzene but honestly not that large of an issue. IMO. I also have access to cheap 99.6+% isopropanol for very cheap. I use without any second worries but it's good to be informed. I didn't know this when I first started.

 

[THanoC]

Anyone tried with ZnCl2 instead of zeolite? From what I read it should requires a much smaller quantity and might be easier to get rid of than the zeolite. It may also be a stronger catalyst and give better yields, but I'm not sure.

It works very well, but i would not recommend, i would suggest against it, Zinc chloride is orally toxic and a strong irritant, its fumes are also toxic in relatively low concentrations, this method requires equipment, and above all experience with handling hazardous compounds, and even then there is the risk of human mistake.

Stay safe and DYOR.

 

[haskel]

It works very well, but i would not recommend, i would suggest against it, Zinc chloride is orally toxic and a strong irritant, its fumes are also toxic in relatively low concentrations, this method requires equipment, and above all experience with handling hazardous compounds, and even then there is the risk of human mistake.

Stay safe and DYOR.

Thank you for replying. It's fine for me if it requires equipment.
It may explain this guy's experience? lol

Just as something anecdotal. I tried this reaction in a couple different ways; thought I’d be inventive and stray from an SOP.

I’m not a chemist, and despite doing a pretty decent job of argon blanketing and keeping proper vacuum…
The reaction got fucked up. Mystery peaks ran rampant, there was all sorts of side reactions, and I figured I’d try a dab of the distillate …

My lungs completely closed up for 20-30 seconds, and for a good panicked half minute I was wondering if I was ever going to breathe again. I then had the worst cough of life for 5-6 hours and my tongue and teeth felt weird for a good week afterwards.

I turfed the run; but if theres someone inexperienced on here with less scruples would be unwilling to throw away a mistake. This shit can be dangerous, especially without tight parameters and proper equipment.

I’m going to go back to the SOP, and add in some chromatography afterwards

 

[eskacz]

Hello everyone!

I've just prepared two batches for the first time, both using aluminum foil. I'd like to describe how the process went and what the results were.

Batch #1

I mixed 1 g of zeolite with 1 g of CBD in a jar using a rubber brush. Then, I took a little more than two A4 sheets of aluminum foil, wrapped the mixture tightly into a small envelope shape, and placed it in a preheated oven at 105°C. After a while, I increased the temperature to 150°C and left it for about 25-30 minutes. After removing and cooling, I unpacked the contents—it was very sticky, with most of it adhering to the foil. I placed it in the freezer for 5 minutes to recover as much as possible. The consistency resembled dense, brownish, and very sticky hash. The smell was sweet, similar to jelly candies. In the end, I obtained 1 g of substance, meaning that half of it remained stuck to the foil.

Next, I filled a pot with water and placed another pot with holes on top. In a jar, I heated 5 g of coconut oil to a temperature of 55-70°C and added the entire, unseparated mixture of zeolite and CBD/THC. I stirred for about 15-20 minutes, then added 7 g of white chocolate. I poured everything into an ice cube mold, forming two chocolate cubes, and placed them in the fridge.

Batch #2

I used the same technique, but this time, I made a ball with aluminum foil and placed the zeolite inside. The baking time was slightly shorter—about 20-25 minutes. The other steps remained the same. As a result, I obtained a more aromatic, less sticky (compared to the first batch), and darker mixture. However, this time, the material adhered to the foil even more. In the end, I was able to recover only 0.7 g from the expected 2 g.

Once again, I prepared chocolate using the same method, but this time, I added coconut oil without measuring the amount. The consistency turned out denser and blacker than in the previous batch. This time, I made one very THC-active chocolate cube.

I'm about to try one from the first batch, so I'll surely share the results.
Do you have any methods to avoid losing so much material to the aluminum foil? Maybe placing the mixture with the foil into ethanol and stirring until it separates could help? Or before baking put in the baking paper and then in to the aluminum foil?

##EDIT i've read that Etanol is gonna work but it's slow what do you think about baking paper ? Or any advice about where can i find good glass container that's sealed well ?
Also it's about hour from trying chocolate. i think i slowly start feeling differently. more updates soon.
##EDIT 2. Definitely not sober, but it's not intense to be honest. Almost no body high, no issues with my heart or breathing, eyes are smaller but still clear. However, the head space is pretty good. I think there was still quite a bit of CBD in my mixture because I feel really relaxed, and I guess the THC-9 content is quite low. But honestly, for the first time, I didn't expect it to work at all. This is my first time with a distillate, except for HHC.
EDIT 3. It definitely works good. feels like it take longer than usual edible to kick in, effects pretty similar to jellys from coffe shop, i'm amazed.

 

[THanoC]

Do you have any methods to avoid losing so much material to the aluminum foil? Or before baking put in the baking paper and then in to the aluminum foil?

You can put the aluminum pack in the freezer before you open it, let it freeze for 30-60min and the material will become completely solid, which helps the aluminum to separate more easily.

Maybe placing the mixture with the foil into ethanol and stirring until it separates could help?

If you want to use ethanol to dissolve the material left on the aluminum, make sure all the materials are cold (fridge cold), because at higher temperatures ethanol and aluminum react to form aluminum triethoxide, which is caustic and damaging to the eyes. (its just better to Avoid this.)