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TEK Converting CBD to THC using only Zeolite and heat.

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I did this conversion some time ago and it worked good. I did not bother myself with oxygen removal, my goal was to obtain a mixture of delta8, delta9 and CBD.
I also accidentaly discovered KOH test for CBD presence - after oven treatment and cooling, zeolite/product mixture was dissolved in benzine to separate product from zeolite, and benzine was dried with few dry granules of KOH. Granules turned purple, which was surprising for me, as at that time I was not aware of that behaviour. It also means that my conversion was not complete, which is totally ok.
I use it as an edible and its effects are slightly different from normal cannabis - milder but not weaker, not so immersive.
I would say that I have now experience with a different section of cannabinoids scale. I like delta8. :)
 
Hello there forum members :D

So, a couple of questions. Can we then reuse the zeolite? I would like to try but I'm still kind of unsure as for temperatures and such. Is preheating an oven, then ~25 minutes of 150c good? Anyone tested more or less ? If one would go for most delta 9x...
 
justb612 said:
Hello there forum members :D

So, a couple of questions. Can we then reuse the zeolite? I would like to try but I'm still kind of unsure as for temperatures and such. Is preheating an oven, then ~25 minutes of 150c good? Anyone tested more or less ? If one would go for most delta 9x...
Click to expand...
30 minutes with a a 25g batch was too short for full conversion. It still had about 20% CBD in the end product.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Next step:

Finding an easy way to separate Delta-8-THC from Delta-9-THC.

I was thinking about making different salt forms and check if one of them would cause a difference in polar/non-polar absorption compared between the 8 and 9.

Any good suggestions for which acid for salting would probably give hypothetically the best result?


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Hi,
You can't make salt forms of either. Your best luck is column chromatography for purification. If you don't mind using chemicals you can selectively cbd -> DX THC by using different solvent systems and rxn durations.

Afaik DCM + TsOH is selective to d8 and toluene + TsOH for d9

Regards,
famine
 
If you was to try 3 or at tops 5 different conversions for lab testing (we're aiming at max delta 9, and 100% thc conversion) at what preheated temperatures and timeframes would you try?

Taking the last reply from Traveler into account I was thinking 35 and 40 m at 150c and 30 m 180c maybe do a 120-130c and 1-2h ?

Not too sure if cbd or thc would survive 180c though..

With these results we would know where to aim at least?
 
I've been researching CBD to THC conversion with zeolite while waiting for all my ingredients to turn up in the post before trying it myself.
Reading through the information in the link to the google patent posted by THanoC, I noticed examples 6 and 15 showed the best results.

Example 6:
Prior to reaction, 1.5 g of Zeolite-Y ‘'’ form was suspended in 10 ml distilled water and 3 g of sodium bicarbonate was added. This mixture was stirred 1 hour, filtered and the zeolite washed 3 times with 10 ml distilled water and once with 10 ml ethanol. The zeolite was dried approximately 2 hours in a vacuum oven at 50° C. Suspending 100 mg of the zeolite in 5 ml distilled water gave a pH reading of 9.2. CBD (5.0 g) was combined with the treated catalyst (0.6 g) under vacuum. The mixture was warmed to 175° C. for 2 hours. The cannabinoid content of the product mixture consisted of 4.2% CBD, 13.4% Δ8-THC, and 73.9% Δ9-THC, with the remainder being minor cannabinoids.

Example 15:
CBD (1.04 g) and previously used buffered Zeolite Y form (0.2 g) were combined in a round bottom and warmed to 175° C. under vacuum with stirring. After 1 hour the cannabinoid content of the product mixture consisted of 72.6% Δ9-THC, 14.7% Δ8-THC, and 3.3% CBD with the remainder being minor cannabinoids eluting close to Δ9-THC.

What was it was about examples 6 and 15 that gave such a high percentage of delta 9 in the end result compared to all the other examples?
Does the type of Zeolite effect the result? Does the ph of the Zeolite effect the result? Could it be that the Zeolite ph adjustment step is what caused the higher delta 9 to delta 8 ratio?

Example 7 showed promising results as well with just 5 min of heating. It'd be interesting to see how example 7 would have turned out with an extra 10 min heating.

Example 7:
Prior to reaction, 1.0 g of Zeolite-Y ‘'’ form was suspended in 10 ml distilled water and 2.3 g of calcium acetate was added. This mixture was stirred 2 hours, filtered and the zeolite washed 3 times with 10 ml distilled water and once with 10 ml ethanol. The zeolite was dried approximately 2 hours in a vacuum oven at 50° C. CBD (0.9 g) was combined with the treated catalyst (0.1 g). The mixture was warmed to 175° C. for 5 minutes. The cannabinoid content of the product mixture consisted of 68.6% CBD, 7.5% Δ8-THC, and 22.9% Δ9-THC, with the remainder being minor cannabinoids.
 
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Barney420 said:
I've been researching CBD to THC conversion with zeolite while waiting for all my ingredients to turn up in the post before trying it myself.
Reading through the information in the link to the google patent posted by THanoC, I noticed examples 6 and 15 showed the best results.

Example 6:
Prior to reaction, 1.5 g of Zeolite-Y ‘'’ form was suspended in 10 ml distilled water and 3 g of sodium bicarbonate was added. This mixture was stirred 1 hour, filtered and the zeolite washed 3 times with 10 ml distilled water and once with 10 ml ethanol. The zeolite was dried approximately 2 hours in a vacuum oven at 50° C. Suspending 100 mg of the zeolite in 5 ml distilled water gave a pH reading of 9.2. CBD (5.0 g) was combined with the treated catalyst (0.6 g) under vacuum. The mixture was warmed to 175° C. for 2 hours. The cannabinoid content of the product mixture consisted of 4.2% CBD, 13.4% Δ8-THC, and 73.9% Δ9-THC, with the remainder being minor cannabinoids.

Example 15:
CBD (1.04 g) and previously used buffered Zeolite Y form (0.2 g) were combined in a round bottom and warmed to 175° C. under vacuum with stirring. After 1 hour the cannabinoid content of the product mixture consisted of 72.6% Δ9-THC, 14.7% Δ8-THC, and 3.3% CBD with the remainder being minor cannabinoids eluting close to Δ9-THC.

What was it was about examples 6 and 15 that gave such a high percentage of delta 9 in the end result compared to all the other examples?
Does the type of Zeolite effect the result? Does the ph of the Zeolite effect the result? Could it be that the Zeolite ph adjustment step is what caused the higher delta 9 to delta 8 ratio?

Example 7 showed promising results as well with just 5 min of heating. It'd be interesting to see how example 7 would have turned out with an extra 10 min heating.

Example 7:
Prior to reaction, 1.0 g of Zeolite-Y ‘'’ form was suspended in 10 ml distilled water and 2.3 g of calcium acetate was added. This mixture was stirred 2 hours, filtered and the zeolite washed 3 times with 10 ml distilled water and once with 10 ml ethanol. The zeolite was dried approximately 2 hours in a vacuum oven at 50° C. CBD (0.9 g) was combined with the treated catalyst (0.1 g). The mixture was warmed to 175° C. for 5 minutes. The cannabinoid content of the product mixture consisted of 68.6% CBD, 7.5% Δ8-THC, and 22.9% Δ9-THC, with the remainder being minor cannabinoids.
Click to expand...
Hello and welcome, what a great way to make an entry with some very pertinent observations and questions!

This set me thinking - what heating method was used? How do the solventless, vacuum conditions square up with the ethanol + nitrogen that has been used here so far? Would a vacuum, or inert atmosphere, plus microwave irradiation drive the reaction favorably?

It seems clear to me that the calcium acetate treatment appears to block some of the active sites in the catalyst, so it would be good for our intrepid team of experimenters to give the bicarb wash pre-treatment a try.

I really ought to get some CBD!
 
Getting stoned with Full Spectrum 60% CBD and 20um - 30um Zeolite . . . . .

Yesterday and this morning I got stoned using Zeolite and Full Spectrum 60% CBD crumble that had been mixed together then cooked in an oven.

I mixed well 1g of 60% CBD crumble with an equal amount of Zeolite by eye. I put a thin layer of Zeolite on the bottom of a concentrate jar then sprinkled the mix of Zeolite and crumble over the top. Then topped that off with a thin layer of Zeolite. I put the concentrate jar on a baking tray in a pre heated oven at 150c for 30 min. After taking it out and leaving it to cool I mixed the cooked mix up and it became a grey / brown sticky hash ball. I split the ball in half. Each half got well mixed with half a shot of olive oil then mixed in with some kefir yogurt. I ate each portion an hour apart. I started to feel the effects after 1 hour and was proper stoned 2 hours after eating the first ball an got was even more stoned 2 hours after the second dose. I felt stoned until I went to sleep about 5 hours after the first dose.

To repeat it and try to improve; I mixed 3 more grams of crumble to an equal amount by eye of Zeolite. I put equal amounts in 3 concentrate jars, this time packed down to removed oxygen and with tin foil lids. I set the timer for 45min at 150C and put them in the oven on a baking tray. After taking them out and leaving them to cool I had a grey sticky oily substance in the jars. To wet and sticky to roll up into a balls. This morning I scraped up a lump a bit bigger than a pea and mixed it well with a little olive oil before adding a bit of Kefir yogurt and eating it. 1 hour after eating it I started to feel the effects. 2 hours after eating it I was stoned. 5 hours later while writing this i'm still stoned.

The second batch of 3 x 1g that I did with tin foil lids for 45 min is stronger than the first 1g gram that I did with no lid but both were definitely highly psychoactive. The effect feels extremely similar to all the cannabis edibles I've had in the past. I'm very happy with the result!

Looking forward to my CBD Isolate finally turning up in the post so I can keep experimenting and start perfecting my technique.
 
Barney420 said:
I've been researching CBD to THC conversion with zeolite while waiting for all my ingredients to turn up in the post before trying it myself.
Reading through the information in the link to the google patent posted by THanoC, I noticed examples 6 and 15 showed the best results.
Click to expand...

FYI for the people getting their info from patents, anyone can write anything in a patent. There is no peer review or verification of claims required for a patent as long as it does not break the laws of physics (perpetual motion machines for example, although there are such patents).
 
hurrrrster said:
FYI for the people getting their info from patents, anyone can write anything in a patent. There is no peer review or verification of claims required for a patent as long as it does not break the laws of physics (perpetual motion machines for example, although there are such patents).
Click to expand...
That may well be the case in some instances, but chemical research tends to have to get done before the patent, mostly.
Barney420 said:
Prior to reaction, 1.5 g of Zeolite-Y ‘'’ form was suspended in 10 ml distilled water and 3 g of sodium bicarbonate was added. This mixture was stirred 1 hour, filtered and the zeolite washed 3 times with 10 ml distilled water and once with 10 ml ethanol. The zeolite was dried approximately 2 hours in a vacuum oven at 50° C. Suspending 100 mg of the zeolite in 5 ml distilled water gave a pH reading of 9.2. CBD (5.0 g) was combined with the treated catalyst (0.6 g) under vacuum. The mixture was warmed to 175° C. for 2 hours. The cannabinoid content of the product mixture consisted of 4.2% CBD, 13.4% Δ8-THC, and 73.9% Δ9-THC, with the remainder being minor cannabinoids.
Click to expand...
The replicable details in this example show that they weren't simply making it up.

Still a valid point for devices, and generic chemical patents on groups of compounds, some of which may not have been, and may never be, synthesised. The specific duties of a patent examiner specialising in chemistry-related patents is somewhat outside of my field, however.
 
Mega nice tutorial respect

But how much cbd-zeolite end product for how many liquid?

If we want to make 100ml we have to put 10% so 10ml was in it??
 
Hey i tried this conversion, i eyeballed the zeolite to cbd. it was 95% cbd and 99% zeolite, after oven it was moist dark greenish / greyish color with some liquid/paste and thing that looked little bit similar like hashish. i tried to eat a little bit of it but i didnt notice any effects, did i possibly fail by eyeballing the zeolite?

Can you put too much or too litte zeolite so it would affect the process and not turn into delta 8 / 9?
 
KerZo said:
Hey i tried this conversion, i eyeballed the zeolite to cbd. it was 95% cbd and 99% zeolite, after oven it was moist dark greenish / greyish color with some liquid/paste and thing that looked little bit similar like hashish. i tried to eat a little bit of it but i didnt notice any effects, did i possibly fail by eyeballing the zeolite?

Can you put too much or too litte zeolite so it would affect the process and not turn into delta 8 / 9?
Click to expand...
It would probably be a good idea to check the whole method for amounts and other tips (such as purging the reaction vessel free of oxygen before heating). Eyeballing and winging it suggests you'll have overlooked some essential details.
 
Transform said:
It would probably be a good idea to check the whole method for amounts and other tips (such as purging the reaction vessel free of oxygen before heating). Eyeballing and winging it suggests you'll have overlooked some essential details.
Click to expand...
In the original post it says it comes out as black powder but some people here said it comes sticky hash looking like. if its sticky / wet does that mean there was too much oxygen or something else?
 
FWIW I've never seen a black powder as a result, only grey / brown sticky paste.

My take is that since the zeolite is sort of acting like a catalyst and converting the CBD into another isomer (rather than actually reacting with it, as such ) and since Zeolite is pretty inert from a human consumption point of view, then an excess of zeolite isn't going to affect the results beyond diluting it a bit more.

In fact I have given up weighing my ingredients every time and just go with repeatable volumes: one level, lightly compacted 2.5ml measuring spoon seems to be approx 1.75g of CBD , I then add a heaped 2.5ml spoon of zeolite to get something definitely active in the 30 mg range when consumed with chocolate.

I may be wrong about the above " a small excess is fairly harmless" theory though, and look forward to being corrected if necessary :)
 
KerZo said:
In the original post it says it comes out as black powder but some people here said it comes sticky hash looking like. if its sticky / wet does that mean there was too much oxygen or something else?
Click to expand...
You might read the while topic instead of only the OP? 🤨

There is a lot of info in this topic about coloring, oxygen mitigation, timing, temperature, separation, etc.

Hopefully lessons learned for you: topics usually do not end with the innovation after the first post on this platform, it's actually often the start of it.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Hello.
My conversion looked like this:
- I mixed exactly 1g zeolite and 1g CBD then wrapped it as tightly as possible in aluminum foil
- I put it in an aluminum can getting rid of the oxygen with ethanol and cotton
- I put it in the oven preheated to 105 degrees, then immediately set the temprerature to 150 degrees and kept it like that for 20 minutes
- after the time had elapsed I took the can out of the oven and as soon as it could be touched (the can was still warm) I opened it and unwrapped it
- what I got was a grayish-brown paste which, when rolled out, became a brown sticky ball resembling hash

I ate 0.6g of this plasticine and felt no effect, could I have done something wrong?

The substances I used were cbd in 99% crystal and zeolite 100% which contains 90% clinoptilolite with a particle size of 8-10 µm.

This was my second attempt, the first time I put the aluminum foil alone in the oven without cutting off the oxygen, the paste came out more brown than the second time and was more sticky, but after eating it (0.5g) I didn't feel any effects either.

did i do something wrong?
was the dose I ate too small?
 
trotuar said:
Hello.
My conversion looked like this:
- I mixed exactly 1g zeolite and 1g CBD then wrapped it as tightly as possible in aluminum foil
- I put it in an aluminum can getting rid of the oxygen with ethanol and cotton
- I put it in the oven preheated to 105 degrees, then immediately set the temprerature to 150 degrees and kept it like that for 20 minutes
- after the time had elapsed I took the can out of the oven and as soon as it could be touched (the can was still warm) I opened it and unwrapped it
- what I got was a grayish-brown paste which, when rolled out, became a brown sticky ball resembling hash

I ate 0.6g of this plasticine and felt no effect, could I have done something wrong?

The substances I used were cbd in 99% crystal and zeolite 100% which contains 90% clinoptilolite with a particle size of 8-10 µm.

This was my second attempt, the first time I put the aluminum foil alone in the oven without cutting off the oxygen, the paste came out more brown than the second time and was more sticky, but after eating it (0.5g) I didn't feel any effects either.

did i do something wrong?
was the dose I ate too small?
Click to expand...
Hey there.
The description of your steps suggests you didn't do something wrong, your dose is also certainly not small.
(consider extending the reaction time from 20 to 25-30 minutes, however 20 minutes should also work)
I can think of two different possibilities, one is i am not sure about how well a ball consisting of zeolite microparticles stuck together by THC would dissolve in the stomach, perhaps it does not partially/fully dissolve leaving THC molecules mechanically trapped in the zeolite "plaster" piece , this is just an anecdotal speculation, however, you could test this by dissolving the zeolite/THC plaster in a small amount of ethanol and consuming this instead.

The other is, i suppose you have tried edible THC before, but if not, be aware that a small percentage(~2%) of the population is "immune" to oral THC or need extremely high doses to feel anything, the gene CPY2C9 is linked with the enzyme that metabolizes THC, if you have a rare subtype of that gene, the process could be too efficient, metabolizing THC to a waste product before the intoxicating metabolite can enter the bloodstream.
 
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