To that end, a longer, thinner syringe will require less force - remembering our hydraulics here.
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TEK Converting CBD to THC using only Zeolite and heat.
- Thread starter THanoC
- Start date
This topic contain a TEK
murklan
Esteemed member
Looking forward to this tests!
THanoC
Tetrahydrocannabinol
So apparently the difference is there when using argon, at least it felt like It.
Also the colour of the material was a little different, more to the yellow spectrum than of the orange i usually get.
it was heated for 25 minutes at 150c°.
Subjectively, felt more "heavy" than usual with a stronger "couch lock" effect, no terpenes were used.
Also the colour of the material was a little different, more to the yellow spectrum than of the orange i usually get.
it was heated for 25 minutes at 150c°.
Subjectively, felt more "heavy" than usual with a stronger "couch lock" effect, no terpenes were used.
murklan
Esteemed member
Ok, interesting. I will take a few more test to see how it feels I guess. One experience can be effected by many variables. But regarding time and temperature did you measure the time 25 minutes from when putting it into a oven at 150c°? Not starting lower and rising to 150c°?
THanoC
Tetrahydrocannabinol
Good question, didn't really measure, I just preheated my oven at 150c° for 10 minutes before putting in the materials.
The isomerization begins at 105c°, anything over this is to lower the reaction time, or simply to speed things up.
THanoC
Tetrahydrocannabinol
And so i realized that a problem for some was the filtration of the very fine zeolite particles, i had something in mind regarding this but i never actually tried it.
today i did an experiment and the results were positive, and you will probably find it familiar too, since we simply use a non polar solvent.
it appears as if zeolite prefers to be in water instead of hexane if it has the choice (probably other NPS's too but i only tried with hexane)
so as you already imagine, the process is as follows:
once you get your zeolite/cannabinoid mixture out of the oven, simply use hexane instead of ethanol to dissolve your cannabinoids, when everything is dissolved add an equal amount of water in the mixture, the hexane and water layers will separate almost immediately and the zeolite particles will move to the bottom water layer, the upper hexane layer should appear completely transparent and free of particles, and just like in DMT extractions, use a syringe or pipete to pull the upper hexane layer that contains the cannabinoids in a clean container and use heat to evaporate the hexane. (of course if you own a separating funnel it becomes much easier for you)
notes:
1. some oxygen bubbles will be trapped between the water/hexane layers but they will go away after a few minutes.
2. hexane is highly flammable and produces vapors really fast so be careful with it.
today i did an experiment and the results were positive, and you will probably find it familiar too, since we simply use a non polar solvent.
it appears as if zeolite prefers to be in water instead of hexane if it has the choice (probably other NPS's too but i only tried with hexane)
so as you already imagine, the process is as follows:
once you get your zeolite/cannabinoid mixture out of the oven, simply use hexane instead of ethanol to dissolve your cannabinoids, when everything is dissolved add an equal amount of water in the mixture, the hexane and water layers will separate almost immediately and the zeolite particles will move to the bottom water layer, the upper hexane layer should appear completely transparent and free of particles, and just like in DMT extractions, use a syringe or pipete to pull the upper hexane layer that contains the cannabinoids in a clean container and use heat to evaporate the hexane. (of course if you own a separating funnel it becomes much easier for you)
notes:
1. some oxygen bubbles will be trapped between the water/hexane layers but they will go away after a few minutes.
2. hexane is highly flammable and produces vapors really fast so be careful with it.
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I used these containers and they are quite nice for this tek, the size I have are great for converting 10g at a time.
One lesson I learned though: use an aluminium liner so you can more easily get the end result out of the container.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Uhm, I think I might have exchanged one problem for another:
I used celite as filter material to catch any remaining zeolite, however the particle size of the celite seems to be even smaller than the zeolite and now after filtering I think I have very fine celite in my end product.
This will probably mean that I have to go the route of @THanoC's idea and use hexane and water to get all the earth dust out of my end product.
And one other thing I wondered about with using hexane: how well will it get out of the end product? Can I just heat the mix to say 80C+ and will this let the hexane completely evaporate out of the end product in a usable time frame (say an hour)?
Kind regards,
The Traveler
I used celite as filter material to catch any remaining zeolite, however the particle size of the celite seems to be even smaller than the zeolite and now after filtering I think I have very fine celite in my end product.
This will probably mean that I have to go the route of @THanoC's idea and use hexane and water to get all the earth dust out of my end product.
And one other thing I wondered about with using hexane: how well will it get out of the end product? Can I just heat the mix to say 80C+ and will this let the hexane completely evaporate out of the end product in a usable time frame (say an hour)?
Kind regards,
The Traveler
I 'm extremely sorry about that! Did you pre-wash the celite?Uhm, I think I might have exchanged one problem for another:
I used celite as filter material to catch any remaining zeolite, however the particle size of the celite seems to be even smaller than the zeolite and now after filtering I think I have very fine celite in my end product.
This will probably mean that I have to go the route of @THanoC's idea and use hexane and water to get all the earth dust out of my end product.
And one other thing I wondered about with using hexane: how well will it get out of the end product? Can I just heat the mix to say 80C+ and will this let the hexane completely evaporate out of the end product in a usable time frame (say an hour)?
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Hope the water wash goes OK - otherwise, er, space cake time?
Nah, this was a plain RTFM moment for me. Also my büchner funnel did not arrive yet, so I guess my curiosity got the better part of me, and that ended up with the average coffee filter.
I think @THanoC's polar/no polar idea wil save the day, just a bit stressed about any possible remaining hexane in the end product.
Another idea I had was using kitchen paper towels in several layers as a filter, and then try that as a alternative. They are quite strong and seem to have smaller pores than the coffee filters I used, especially stacked.
And with my creative mind reaching out I was even thinking about something else that would make the zeolite stick on something strongly. Can electrolysis for example be used to have the Zeolite being pulled to one pole?
And remember, I often learn the most from my mistakes, so this was an awesome learning experience.
Yup, lots of space chocolate.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Aha, relieved to hear you attempted a non-standard technique! Coffee filters have large pores - as you have confirmed…Nah, this was a plain RTFM moment for me. Also my büchner funnel did not arrive yet, so I guess my curiosity got the better part of me, and that ended up with the average coffee filter.
I think @THanoC's polar/no polar idea wil save the day, just a bit stressed about any possible remaining hexane in the end product.
Another idea I had was using kitchen paper towels in several layers as a filter, and then try that as a alternative. They are quite strong and seem to have smaller pores than the coffee filters I used, especially stacked.
And with my creative mind reaching out I was even thinking about something else that would make the zeolite stick on something strongly. Can electrolysis for example be used to have the Zeolite being pulled to one pole?
And remember, I often learn the most from my mistakes, so this was an awesome learning experience.
Yup, lots of space chocolate.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
Getting out fine particulates (in my most recent case, precipitated tannins from a hippophae bark brew) can be achieved with a carefully rolled plug of paper kitchen towel stuffed into the neck of a funnel.
However, this is even slower than a normal gravity filtration and there is a not insignificant holdup of solvent and material on the filter plug which requires multiple washes to flush through. To that end, it's best to minimise the starting volume of the filtrate in order conserve solvent. It then ends up being like ghetto column chromatography (I observed some separation with my specimen, with yellow, then green, then blue fluorescence although this needs confirming with the help of some dilution tests).
In case anyone was thinking of trying this out as a separation technique, rolled up paper doesn't present anything like an even solvent front unless one were to be ultra-fastidious in the rolling and packing processes, and even then it's far from great. It would require a massive difference in Rf to get a useful separation of components beyond biasing of concentration.
Come to mention it, did we have any TLC or other chroma results on this conversion yet? Besides the Kykeon Analytical results, I mean.
TEK - Converting CBD to THC using only Zeolite and heat.
With the final test results from Kykeon Analytics in hand I made a calculation: If we assume Delta-8 is half as strong as Delta-9 then: Delta-8: 56%, divided by two will be 28% Delta-9: 34% Total "Delta-9 strength": 62% So for each gram of CBD you get 62% "Delta-9 strength" with this...
forum.dmt-nexus.me
PS - no real idea about what appears to be more like electrophoresis with "electrolysis" idea but it seems unlikely - plus it looks like you'd be mixing high voltages with flammable solvents, if you're considering something more akin to electrostatic dust filtration but in liquid form?
Voltage that I used back in the day for fun electrolysis was just 15V and that got some nice bubbling and seperation of hydrogen and oxygen. You would expect that the aluminiumsilicate would be attracted to one of the poles. If you keep the container only with a small opening I think the danger of fire is extremely low. Especially since you will not be heating the ethanol to flash levels.
However I think the kitchen paper towels in a funnel idea have the biggest chance of removing all the small dust particles in a safe way. I will try that one tomorrow.
With the hexane I'm really worried about a small amount of it staying in the end result, thereby ruining the taste.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
I have the PRO-TEST full reagent kit. It should have the Cannabis and Zimmerman reagents, those will be great to check for full conversation (or not).Come to mention it, did we have any TLC or other chroma results on this conversion yet? Besides the Kykeon Analytical results, I mean.
TEK - Converting CBD to THC using only Zeolite and heat.
With the final test results from Kykeon Analytics in hand I made a calculation: If we assume Delta-8 is half as strong as Delta-9 then: Delta-8: 56%, divided by two will be 28% Delta-9: 34% Total "Delta-9 strength": 62% So for each gram of CBD you get 62% "Delta-9 strength" with this...
As for TLC, I need to get me a new kit first, since I have not that many plates left anymore and my UV light broke down.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
TLC kit with extra attention to cannabinoids has been ordered.
Kind regards,
The Traveler
THanoC
Tetrahydrocannabinol
i believe that after some serious heating treatment the hexane will completely evaporate, an evaporation test to see if any residuals are left behind is a must, but other than that, it has a lower boiling point than ethanol (69 Celsius or 156 Fahrenheit) and its used widely on extractions and reactions that involve strong bases since its hard to deprotonate it, i would go for something like 90 Celsius for 3 hours to be completely worriless.
also a new method with zeolite i found on a paper reporting 72% Δ9 is simply using anhydrous hexane as a medium, now am not sure how yet, but it appears as if hexane somehow contributes in the minimization of Δ9 degradation, not sure if its just oxidation related or another factor, ill check if it works but am not sure it would be appropriate to upload here since it requires a reflux setup and a heating mantle.
keep it safe and DYOR.
Hm, interesting - I wonder if the hexane simply solubilizes the THC well enough that it keeps it away from the polar reaction sites, whereas CBD is more polar and thus becomes attracted to the zeolite. Do we have any results for the Δ8/Δ9 ratio for material with hexane as the solvent? Wasn't the material that @The Traveler sent to Kykeon made using ethanol?
Ethanol potentially would interact much more strongly with the active sites in the zeolite. Were that the case, it should be possible to see a clear difference in results if carefully comparing the two solvents.
THanoC
Tetrahydrocannabinol
you might have just found it transform!, thanks for the info, unfortunately the only available data on the hexane-using iso is the quantitative report of Δ9 (72%).