TEK Converting CBD to THC using only Zeolite and heat.

[The Traveler]

With the final test results from Kykeon Analytics in hand I made a calculation:

If we assume Delta-8 is half as strong as Delta-9 then:

• Delta-8: 56%, divided by two will be 28%
• Delta-9: 34%
• Total "Delta-9 strength": 62%

So for each gram of CBD you get 62% "Delta-9 strength" with this conversion tek.


Some other nice things from the test-results paper:

• Delta-8: 56%
• Delta-9: 34%
• 2 other isomers (minor)
• CBD: Not Detected

Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[The Traveler]

All I can really say is this is the standard way of removing stubborn fine particulates, typically activated charcoal dust. I'd have to do some searching for actual figures.

You can check for relative success by light beam shining a light beam through the filtrate, and observe scattering or (hopefully) lack thereof.

Thank you for this advice.

If I would make a conversation with 25g zeolite (clinoptilolite: Sodium aluminosilicate), and let it decand and repeat this at least 5 times, how many gram of diatomaceous earth would you guesstimate I need to grab 99.99999% (near 100%) of all the zeolite?

And would it be slowly pouring the ethanol with some left over zeolite through it to optimize the absorption?

I will Def use the light beam to check for any twinkling of zeolite in the end product. This time I will only dissolve in PG since adding VG makes for almost instant emulsion.

EDIT: My zeolite is mostly clinoptilolite with a particle size of 177 micron.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[herb_liker]

Used isopropyl alcohol instead of ethanol to remove the zeolite then realised that may not have been wise of me, will it still be safe to consume once the alcohol is evaporated or is there no guarantee that, even after being left for 24 hours, there won't be any traces of ipa? I still have some CBD isolate left over so it's not the end of the world if my product is unusable.

 

[Transform]

Thank you for this advice.

If I would make a conversation with 25g zeolite (clinoptilolite: Sodium aluminosilicate), and let it decand and repeat this at least 5 times, how many gram of diatomaceous earth would you guesstimate I need to grab 99.99999% (near 100%) of all the zeolite?

And would it be slowly pouring the ethanol with some left over zeolite through it to optimize the absorption?

I will Def use the light beam to check for any twinkling of zeolite in the end product. This time I will only dissolve in PG since adding VG makes for almost instant emulsion.

EDIT: My zeolite is mostly clinoptilolite with a particle size of 177 micron.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

For the sake of simplicity, all you would really need to do is pop a decent fiter paper in the Büchner, maybe put a layer of fine white silica sand in next, and then 5 - 10mm of celite. Moisten with ethanol and suction through for packing, then run the post-zeolite solution through, followed by another ethanol rinse to conserve yield.

The best way to do this might be to dump the zeolite mixture into the pre-packed funnel immediately after doing the conversion, so you can minimise solvent volumes. Given the stickiness of the resin, it may be a good idea to cover the celite with another layer of sand and/or an additional filter paper.

 

[The Traveler]

Used isopropyl alcohol instead of ethanol to remove the zeolite then realised that may not have been wise of me, will it still be safe to consume once the alcohol is evaporated or is there no guarantee that, even after being left for 24 hours, there won't be any traces of ipa? I still have some CBD isolate left over so it's not the end of the world if my product is unusable.

IPA just needs some time to evaporate. It you leave this for 24 hours with a fan blowing over it then it should be fine (can you pleases check this statement @Transform?).

Also as a big tip: put a panty over the container so any IPA air can escape while it prevents dust getting into your container.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[The Traveler]

For the sake of simplicity, all you would really need to do is pop a decent fiter paper in the Büchner, maybe put a layer of fine white silica sand in next, and then 5 - 10mm of celite. Moisten with ethanol and suction through for packing, then run the post-zeolite solution through, followed by another ethanol rinse to conserve yield.

The best way to do this might be to dump the zeolite mixture into the pre-packed funnel immediately after doing the conversion, so you can minimise solvent volumes. Given the stickiness of the resin, it may be a good idea to cover the celite with another layer of sand and/or an additional filter paper.

Thank you! That seems very doable.

Any recommendation on filter paper?


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[Transform]

Used isopropyl alcohol instead of ethanol to remove the zeolite then realised that may not have been wise of me, will it still be safe to consume once the alcohol is evaporated or is there no guarantee that, even after being left for 24 hours, there won't be any traces of ipa? I still have some CBD isolate left over so it's not the end of the world if my product is unusable.

If your IPA is pharmaceutical, cosmetic or food grade it should be just fine. IPA is not much more toxic than ethanol and they have similar boiling points. Evaporation will take about 10% longer.

 

[Transform]

Thank you! That seems very doable.

Any recommendation on filter paper?


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Check the data here: Whatman Filter Paper Grades Guide - Cytiva

 

[herb_liker]

IPA just needs some time to evaporate. It you leave this for 24 hours with a fan blowing over it then it should be fine (can you pleases check this statement @Transform?).

Also as a big tip: put a panty over the container so any IPA air can escape while it prevents dust getting into your container.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

If your IPA is pharmaceutical, cosmetic or food grade it should be just fine. IPA is not much more toxic than ethanol and they have similar boiling points. Evaporation will take about 10% longer.

Brilliant, thank you guys! Appreciate the help

 

[pantostao]

I'm wondering what is the right zeolite to use. I've found >95% purity clinoptilolite, but I'm not sure if this is right, or it needs to be something like >99%.

Also, about the fine particles. Lots of sellers say their zeolite particles are under 3um (the one I'm eyeing says particles are between 0.2um and 3um). I'm thinking normal lab filter paper is not fine enough, right? Mine has a mesh that's 10um if I'm not mistaken, and it was the smallest I could find.

Am I missing something? Or is zeolite really that hard to properly filter?

If it's really that difficult to filter, I would think this technique is only useable for edibles, right?

 

[Transform]

I'm wondering what is the right zeolite to use. I've found >95% purity clinoptilolite, but I'm not sure if this is right, or it needs to be something like >99%.

Also, about the fine particles. Lots of sellers say their zeolite particles are under 3um (the one I'm eyeing says particles are between 0.2um and 3um). I'm thinking normal lab filter paper is not fine enough, right? Mine has a mesh that's 10um if I'm not mistaken, and it was the smallest I could find.

Am I missing something? Or is zeolite really that hard to properly filter?

If it's really that difficult to filter, I would think this technique is only useable for edibles, right?to clean it

Hm, you've got a rather finer grade than @The Traveler's 177μm. You still may be able to clean it up somewhat if you've already performed the conversion.

Firstly, the celite bed helps catch these smaller particles before they reach the filter paper.

0.2 and 0.45 μm Luer-lock syringe filter cartouches are fairly easily (if not cheaply) available, e.g. Whatman Puradisc FP 30 mm Cellulose Acetate Syringe Filter, 0.45 µm, Sterile, 50 Pack, 10462100
These can be used after the celite filter to pick up more of the smaller particles.

If you've yet to perform the conversion it's also possible to wash the zeolite before use. Swirling in ethanol and leaving it to mostly settle will leave much of the tiniest particulate content in suspension for decanting off. Do this at leart three times, or find some coarser zeolite if all these cleaning steps start to look too tedious!

 

[pantostao]

Hm, you've got a rather finer grade than @The Traveler's 177μm. You still may be able to clean it up somewhat if you've already performed the conversion.

Firstly, the celite bed helps catch these smaller particles before they reach the filter paper.

0.2 and 0.45 μm Luer-lock syringe filter cartouches are fairly easily (if not cheaply) available, e.g. Whatman Puradisc FP 30 mm Cellulose Acetate Syringe Filter, 0.45 µm, Sterile, 50 Pack, 10462100
These can be used after the celite filter to pick up more of the smaller particles.

If you've yet to perform the conversion it's also possible to wash the zeolite before use. Swirling in ethanol and leaving it to mostly settle will leave much of the tiniest particulate content in suspension for decanting off. Do this at leart three times, or find some coarser zeolite if all these cleaning steps start to look too tedious!

Thank you for the thorough answer. I saw your previous post about filtering with celite, but I didn't understood it (language barrier ) I've read some more on it, and this might be worth a try. The syringe filters sound easier to me, but its probably super tedious to filter a semi-large amount of solvent.

When I read Traveller's reported 177um against my 3um particles, I thought there might be some kind of mistake, but It seems like there is no mistake, and there is a high variance in particle sizes.

I haven't performed the conversion yet, I didn't even buy the zeolite. I found a different source that says its particles are 25um, but the purity goes down to 89%. Would this matter much? (The source says it's 100% "natural mineral" zeolite, ranging from 89 to 95% of pure clinoptilolite). In case this is not good, would the 95% one work? I haven't found a source that claims to have (almost) pure clinoptilolite.

This is very exciting!

 

[Transform]

its probably super tedious to filter a semi-large amount of solvent

To minimise clogging, it would be necessary to do the pre-filtering if using the ultrafine syringe filters (and while there are larger systems available, it starts to get rather expensive).

It would be guesswork on my part if I was to attempt to say what the other 11% of that 89% material might be. Clay or other aluminosilicates would seem like the most likely candidates, and it could be another form of zeolite. Beyond that I'd have to look at the data and probably do a load of other background reading which, unfortunately, I can't prioritise right now!

I still wish I'd won that bid for the set of Endecotts sieves on ebay 10 years ago
Microplate Sieves for reliable particle analysis - Endecotts 5μm sieves!

 

[pantostao]

It would be guesswork on my part if I was to attempt to say what the other 11% of that 89% material might be. Clay or other aluminosilicates would seem like the most likely candidates, and it could be another form of zeolite. Beyond that I'd have to look at the data and probably do a load of other background reading which, unfortunately, I can't prioritise right now!

Yeah, of course, that was silly on my part. I guess what I was asking is... what are you guys using? Either way, I'll try your suggestions. First, try to find coarse zeolite, then try to get maximum purity, then try to decant and filter as well as I can.

Thank you!

BTW lol at the ebay comment

 

[THanoC]

And so i finally got my hands on some argon, as some members correctly stated at the beginning of this thread, argon is probably the best method one can use to limit or block the contact of the reactants with oxygen, the way it works is really simple, argon is much heavier than oxygen, so when argon is poured in a open container the oxygen floats on top of the argon layer, we can use this effect to perform our isomerization in a oxygen-free environment.
i am not sure about how hard or easy it is to get argon, but in my country it was quite hard, my only chance to get some was in bulk quantity in the form of a pretty expensive welding tank, i couldn't find small amounts of argon for sale anywhere, until i was lucky enough to discover that those wine preservation sprays are pure argon!
just look for "wine preservation spray" and you will find it, its quite cheap and in the quantity we need it, also really easy to handle for the job we need it!
i will soon update you with an anecdotal effects report on the specific material i got using argon.
keep it safe and DYOR.

 

[The Traveler]

ust look for "wine preservation spray" and you will find it, its quite cheap and in the quantity we need it, also really easy to handle for the job we need it!

Awesome find, directly ordered one for testing.

Now I only wonder about timings, since putting it in a container will affect the heat transfer.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[THanoC]

Awesome find, directly ordered one for testing.

Now I only wonder about timings, since putting it in a container will affect the heat transfer.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

the solution on this problem for me was to find all-aluminum jars, aluminum has a great thermal conductivity, it will almost immediately catch up the temperature.
i specifically use these:

 

[The Traveler]

the solution on this problem for me was to find all-aluminum jars, aluminum has a great thermal conductivity, it will almost immediately catch up the temperature.
i specifically use these:
View attachment 97292

And thank you again! I will make sure I get those as well.

And inspired by @Transform I have ordered these ones to filter the possibly smaller particles of my zeolite:



Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[Transform]

And thank you again! I will make sure I get those as well.

And inspired by @Transform I have ordered these ones to filter the possibly smaller particles of my zeolite:
View attachment 97293


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Great - I'd regard those little filters as an essential piece of lab kit. What pore size did you go for? Just be warned, you'll have to squeeze pretty hard to get the solution through them!

 

[The Traveler]

Great - I'd regard those little filters as an essential piece of lab kit. What pore size did you go for? Just be warned, you'll have to squeeze pretty hard to get the solution through them!

Pore Size: 0.22 Micron I guess that should be good enough?

And thanks for the heads up on squeezing hard, I will only use these after decanting a couple of times and when it is still in a huge ethanol solution. Essentially just when everything is done the way I already did and then as the last step to load up the syringe.


Kind regards,

The Traveler