Cooking with BHO

[Gone-and-Back]

I am about to make some brownies with BHO instead of using just buds. I have made them before with just buds, and they turned out great. However, I'm not sure how to go about adding the BHO into my butter for this batch because I have never cooked with BHO before.

The method I would use with buds was to boil some water, and place the desired amount of butter into the water to melt it, then turn heat down to low and add in the bud, stirring and adding water as needed for about 6 hours to ensure that everything has bonded to the fat. Then I would filter plant matter out and cool the mixture until the butter seperated.

Will the above method work for BHO as well? Or can I simply heat up my butter in a dish, and then melt the BHO off the end of my dabber into the liquid butter and stir? Will this give it enough time to properly bind to the fat?

I'm not sure of any other possible ways I would try to cook it into my butter. Hopefully someone here has experience making edibles with concentrates. Oh and yes, my BHO has been decarbed.

 

[Mitakuye Oyasin]

You should be able to diffuse your BHO into butter or another liquid fat like vegetable oil or coconut oil. Low and slow is the best method to not burn the butter and not vape the BHO. Remember BHO is a LOT more concentrated than raw herb or even hash, so be careful with mounts. Good luck.

 

[Gone-and-Back]

I took 2/3cups butter, and heated it in the microwave til it was melted and the ceramic dish was nice and hot. The butter itself was hot enough that you didn't want to touch it. I placed a gram of BHO on a dabber, and held it over the hot butter. With a torch on a super low setting, I put it just close enough to start melting the BHO. It all dipped into the butter and was then stirred into the mixture for a couple minutes.

This then was covered with tinfoil and placed in an oven at 220 degrees for 40minutes to give it time to process and absorb into the butter better. It's now cooling down, and once I can handle it without being burnt I will take the foil off and stir it around some more before using it to make my brownies with.

Do you think I should give it more time in the oven, or was the 40 minutes enough? Remember, it was already decarbed when I added it to the butter.

 

[Mitakuye Oyasin]

Sounds good. 40 min should be enough time. Let us know how the end product turns out and how potent a single serving is.

 

[Gone-and-Back]

They are out of the oven, and cut into nearly identical sized bars. I used a whole gram of BHO so I cut the batch into 20 pieces. This would mean there should be .05g in each brownie, which I have been told is a good dose for most people.

Since its very late and I'll probably fall asleep before it kicks in, I will try one out tomorrow and see how it goes.

 

[Gone-and-Back]

Also, I tasted a small bit of the brownies that crumbled off as I cut the larger pieces, and they taste like normal brownies. Usually they have a nasty flavor to them like that of chewing on a bud. But with BHO, if you didn't know these brownies were weed brownies, you could eat one and not know until the effects kick in.

If these work I'm just cooking with hash oil from now on.

 

[steppa]

Why not straight eating the decarbed hash oil?

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Why not straight eating the decarbed hash oil?

I'm interested in hash eating, as well as eating raw extracts and oils, though I don't have much experiance, if your eating raw extract it should require decarboxylation, no? Or has most the Tetrahydrocannabinolic acid already been decarboxylated to delta-9?

I have not been able to get more than a ++ (shulgin scale) from cannabis since I was in young, and I don't necessarily see this as a negative, I enjoy being able to use cannabis daily, and being able to obtain real effect, without it hindering or interfering with the activities of my day, it makes me happy, calm, inspired, healthy, stress-free, and positive, but it does not make me impaired by any means...

Yet,

As a youth, fitz hugh ludlow's 1857 work "the hasheesh eater" was a favorite of mine, at one point I even calculated Mr. Ludlow's dose, which was described in "grains"

1 Gram = 15.4323584 Grains

1 Grain = 0.06479891 Gram (or 64.79891 milligrams)

Grain is a unit of mass and based upon the average mass of a single seed of a cereal, wheat, barley, etc. 1 pound equals to 7000 grains. It is also used to measure the hardness of water and the mass of gunpowder. The abbreviation is "gr".

Ludlow's first attempt: 10 grains which equals: 647.9891 milligrams

After "several days" Ludlow made his second attempt: at 15 grains which equals 971.98365 milligrams (nearly 1 gram)


Third attempt: (though he fails to mention how much time had elapsed between his 2nd and 3rd attempts) gradually he increases to 30 grains which equals 1943.9673 milligrams (nearly two grams)

-EG

Any way, while reading through this work I was reminded of my +++ cannabis experiences as a youth, and actually wanted to recreate one of these "cannabis ordeals" that could easily substitute for an actual psychedelic.

I never got around to recreating Mr. Ludlow's hasheesh eating venture.

I had a thread asking about Mr. Ludlow and eating hasheesh, but can't remember if it lead anywhere, initially I wanted the same preparation of "hasheesh jelly" that "Tillman and co." (I think that was the name of the distributor, but it's been a good while since I've read the hasheesh eater) had prepared, and that was available the Mr. Ludlow in 1857...

Eventually I settled on the notion of consuming between 3-7g of raw (but activated) butane, propane, or BHO/PHO mixture cannabis extract, most extracts average between 30-60%, some good BHO averages around 60% to the high 80%'s, and top shelf can range in the 90% and higher, though I doubt that your average dispensary's standard extracts are much more than 45% for the most part...

(Again, I enjoy that I can't reach higher than ++, yet I still want to create a +++ from cannabis, at least one more time, though I would be doing intentionally in a controlled and safe environment)

THC,CBN,CBD, are all odorless and tasteless, so having other terpenes and flavonoids ("cannaflavins"), contributes to flavor, and have also been found to have psychoactive properties or enhance the psychoactive properties of the active cannabinoids, so 100% pure delta-9-THC is not necessarily the goal with extracts, though a fairly high range of THC is preferable.

Any way, I put all this thought into eating raw extract, but never got around to it...

I don't like butter or edibles, I end up having to eat way to much, so rather than eating a whole tray of cookies, or finding a meal to cook 1-2 sticks cannabutter with , I'd rather just eat the raw hash...

Any information is appreciated,

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Also, I tasted a small bit of the brownies that crumbled off as I cut the larger pieces, and they taste like normal brownies. Usually they have a nasty flavor to them like that of chewing on a bud. But with BHO, if you didn't know these brownies were weed brownies, you could eat one and not know until the effects kick in.

If these work I'm just cooking with hash oil from now on.

This interests me as well, generally my cannabutter made with cannabis taste terrible, and it comes through in the final product...

BHO still has a cannabis smell and flavor, but if it fails to come through in the final product with this method I would be very much interested in trying.

Cool post, it was a decent read, have not thought about cooking with hash or cannabis for quite some time, I remember a time when I was always cooking up cookies or brownies or cake, etc...with cannabis, it was actually pretty fun, it's just like organic chemistry only with food-stuff rather than chemicals, well, that and your recipes don't need to be exact in cooking, but it was fun...I honestly have never been a "food person", I also have several issues related to chronic nausea and have trouble maintaining an appetite, without cannabis it would be near impossible for me to eat, it's kept my interest in food minimal. I always thought cooking shows where they judge and criticise food prepared by these chefs was a display of first world gluttony, there's people in the world starving, so cooking has never been an interest, for all these many reasons...

...But want to look into cannabis cooking again.

-eg

 

[Gone-and-Back]

It worked!

I have not had a chance to eat one yet, but my wife ate half of one and was too high to function properly. She also has a pretty high tolerance. She agreed with not really noticing a significant weed taste, and said if you didn't know to expect it you may not even notice it.

So it looks like cooking with extracts is the better bet. It produces a product that doesn't taste bad, and takes significantly less time.

Now to experiment with different decarb times and how long to cook the butter for. I also want to try adding lecithin, as I have heard this helps bioavailability and increases the time of activity a little bit.

 

[Jees]

...Now to experiment with different decarb times...

Maybe this decarb graph helps?

 

[Gone-and-Back]

I have seen that graph before, and know the proper times for activation, but then comes into play the question of how much is being changed from thc to cbd or cbn and what not. Heating for longer times will cause the thc to degrade to other canibinoids, thus altering the over all effects.

 

[Jees]

That graph is also very lab-ish I think. Kitchen dough baking is different.

I wondered about decarb'n or thc degradation while baking cakes:
Pastry's and bread is ready when inside is max 205 def F (95 deg C), so usually lower, and all while the oven itself is set at min 400 deg F (200 deg C). On that graph it means you would never ever degrade THC inside your cake while baking, and also not decarboxylate.
So all decarb must be in advance, the cake baking doesn't help, not can hurt.

 

[steppa]

I'm interested in hash eating, as well as eating raw extracts and oils, though I don't have much experiance, if your eating raw extract it should require decarboxylation, no?

Yes.

But so far I only experimentet with directly eating so called "reclaim". That's what you get when you clean a pipe that's used for vaporizing concentrates. It's what condenses on the glass. Due to the fact that this reclaim already was vaporized one time, there was no need to decarb it. It even worked sublingually.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

I'm interested in hash eating, as well as eating raw extracts and oils, though I don't have much experiance, if your eating raw extract it should require decarboxylation, no?

Yes.

But so far I only experimentet with directly eating so called "reclaim". That's what you get when you clean a pipe that's used for vaporizing concentrates. It's what condenses on the glass. Due to the fact that this reclaim already was vaporized one time, there was no need to decarb it. It even worked sublingually.

Excellent!

This is welcome news as I can use "reclaim" from my oil rig rather than purchased hash which would require heat decarboxylation.

I have some really old PHO...

What is the time ratio for decarboxylation? I know old hash would have had THCA decarboxalated over time, some of the THC May have even broken into CBN in old samples, no? Is time ever a sufficient "activator", or is heat decarboxylation really the only way?

-eg

 

[Gone-and-Back]

Time can definitelyou decarb material to the point of being active. I know someone who back in the day found a gallon sized jug filled with shake that had been sitting in a garage for years, they found it after cleaning out the garage when their grandfather passed. This stuff had to of been sitting out there for years. It was the driest bud ever and tasted like crap, so they threw it all into brownie mix. They never decarbed it or cooked it into butter, just straight into the brownies.

Needless to say they never got that high ever again. So the material was obviously activated.

 

[Mitakuye Oyasin]

Glad to hear the BHO cooking experiment was a success. I hear cannabis (and extracts) really likes coconut oil, moreso than butter or dairy. I cannot take orally anymore as my body has apparently changed and it is usually a very uncomfortable experience, completely unlike vaping or smoking even large quantities. My friends do a slow cook on the crock pot with either hash or bud into the coconut milk or oil, then filter through cheese cloth and use the oil or milk for cooking. Oil is better for brownies and cookies as you can pretty much swap it out 1-1 with butter for most recipes. They say the same amount of herb into the same amount of coconut oil will get you a much cleaner and purer and stronger high than the same amounts into butter. Might be worth a try, should be just as simple.

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Time can definitelyou decarb material to the point of being active. I know someone who back in the day found a gallon sized jug filled with shake that had been sitting in a garage for years, they found it after cleaning out the garage when their grandfather passed. This stuff had to of been sitting out there for years. It was the driest bud ever and tasted like crap, so they threw it all into brownie mix. They never decarbed it or cooked it into butter, just straight into the brownies.

Needless to say they never got that high ever again. So the material was obviously activated.

This coincidences with many anecdotes I've heard over the years, the large % of CBN created by delta-9 brakedown could contribute to the nature of these "old cannabis" experiances

Unlike other cannabinoids, CBN does not stem from CBG, but is the degraded product of THC. If cannabis is exposed to air or ultraviolet light for a prolonged period of time, THCA will convert to CBNA. CBN is then formed by decarboxylation of CBNA. -Wikipedia

Though it fails to mention whether the already decarboxalated delta-9-THC itself brakes down into CBN, though this is the case...


This link describes cannabinoid chemistry and degradation to a minimal degree...

CBN is the only known cannabinoid NOT derived from an enzymatic process; instead CBN is a degradation product, UV light exposure, heating, of THC.
Cannabinoid Facts: THC, CBD, CBN, CBC, THCV, CBG and Other Unique Phyto Cannabinoids

So in older cannabis samples that have been exposed to Sun light/light, you would find higher levels CBNA, which would still need to be decarboxalated into CBN.

The remaining THCA would decarboxalate to delta-9-THC along with the CBNA decarboxylating to CBN...

Any previously decarboxalated delta-9-THC would also degrade to CBN through this process of time and light.

CBN has higher affinity at CB2 (body cannabinoid receptor) that CB1 (psychoactive/mind cannabinoid receptor) but it's CB1 agonism should result in delta-9 similar psychoactivity...

I found some great information regarding storage and brakedown of cannabinoids, sorry it's a bit long, but was a informative and entertaining read none the less...

Constituents of Cannabis sativa L. XIII: Stability of dosage form prepared by impregnating synthetic (--)-delta 9-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol on placebo Cannabis plant material.
Lewis GS, Turner CE
J Pharm Sci 1978 Jun;67(6):876-8

Abstract:
Synthetic (--)-delta 9-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol impregnated on placebo Cannabis decomposed only 6.3% after being stored for 1 year at --18 degrees. Storage at 5 degrees and room temperature under various conditions led to severe decomposition. The amount of cannabinol observed when (--)-delta 9-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol decomposed indicates that cannabinol is not the only decomposition product.


Stability of Cannabis sativa L. samples and their extracts, on prolonged storage in Delhi.
Narayanaswami K, Golani HC, Bami HL, Dau RD
Bull Narc 1978 Oct-Dec;30(4):57-69

Abstract:
The percentage rate of change into cannabinoids (Cannabidiol [CBD], tetrahydrocannabinol [THC] and cannabinol [CBN]) was higher in cannabis samples than in the extracts. This is probalby due to the decomposition of acids into corresponding neutral cannabinoids under the conditions of storage. Previous claims that CBD content in plant material is relatively constant are not substantiated by our results. There was a 1.0-2.5-fold increase in CBD content in plant material compared with the extracts. However, the fact that there was no appreciable increase in CBD/CBN content in the stored extracts of the same samples supports the view that the step-wise extraction does not bring the acids into the final extract pure delta 9THC decomposed at a rate of 41 per cent per year under tropical storage conditions. The delta 9THC content decreased in the samples and equally in the extracts though 100 per cent conversion of THC to CBN does not take place. The higher CBN content found in extracts than that expected by the conversion THC to CBN is a result of metabolic conversion.


The stability of cannabis and its preparations on storage
Fairbairn JW, Liebmann JA, Rowan MG
J Pharm Pharmacol 1976 Jan;28(1):1-7

Abstract:
Solutions of pure cannabinoids, nine samples of herbal and two of resin cannabis (one freshly prepared) were stored in varying conditions for up to 2 years. Exposure to light (not direct sunlight) was shown to be the greatest single factos in loss of cannabinoids especially in solutions, which should therefore be protected from light during analytical and phytochemical operations. Previous claims that solutions in ethanol were stable have not been substantiated. The effect of temperature, up to 20 degrees, was insignificant but air oxidation did lead to significant losses. These could be reduced if care was taken to minimize damage to the glands which act as "well filled, well closed containers". Loss of tetrahydrocannabinol after exposure to light does not lead to an increase in cannabinol, but air oxidation in the dark does. It is concluded that carefully prepared herbal or resin cannabis or extracts are reasonably stable for 1 to 2 years if stored in the dark at room temperature.


Stability of cannabinoids in dried samples of cannabis dating from around 1896-1905 Harvey DJ
J Ethnopharmacol 1990 Feb;28(1):117-28

Abstract:
Cannabinoids from three samples of cannabis obtained from the Pitt-Rivers Museum, Oxford, and dating from the turn of the century were examined by gas chromatography and mass spectometry for the presence of cannabinoids. Although the samples were from different geographical locations, the profiles of constituent cannabinoids were similar. In common with other aged material, most of the cannabinoid content was present as cannabinol (CBN), the main chemical degradation product of the major psychoactive constituent, delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (delta-9-THC). However, a substantial concentration of CBN acid-A was also present; this compound is unstable to heat and readily undergoes decarboxylation to CBN. Methyl and propyl homologues of CBN, together with delta-9-THC and its naturally occurring acid-A were also found at low concentrations in all samples. Intermediates in the formation of CBN from delta-9-THC, previously identified in aged solutions of the drug, were absent or present in only trace concentrations. However, oxidation products involving hydroxylation at the benzylic positions, C-11 and C-1', not seen in solution, were identified in substantial abundance. The results suggest that decomposition of cannabis samples may proceed more slowly than originally thought.
Preservation of cannabis
Turner CE, Hadley K
JAMA 1973 Feb 26;223(9):1043-4

No Abstract Available: I'm not sure this is actually on topic, find reference.

Microbiological contaminants of marijuana
McPartland JM, Journal of the International Hemp Association 1: 41-44.

Abstract:
Use of marijuana as a medicament is on the rise. Many medical marijuana users have a suppressed immune system, owing to their disease or treatment. Herbal marijuana, whether field grown or hydroponically cultivated, contains many microorganisms. Many of these organisms may pose a threat to immunosuppressed individuals. The microflora of marijuana is well described in the literature. Similarly, the microflora that cause opportunistic infections in AIDS patients is well documented. These separate literatures are correlated with commentary, and methods for detecting and eliminating microbial contaminants are discussed.

Erowid Cannabis Vault : Degradation, Storage, and Mold References

A collection of references on the degradation of cannabis and its active constituents and effects of different storage methods

www.erowid.org

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

As for cooking with cannabis and heat degradation of cannabinoids, the following link was very helpful

Decarboxylation of cannabis: scientific info about temps and times

http://cannabischris.com/2012/10/decarboxylation-of-cannabis/

-----


The below link is great, good information, some really good visual aides and charts, it is in regard to the long-term storage of cannabis resin (hash) and degradation.

The objective of this paper was to investigate the changes in chemical potency of cannabis resin dependingon its long-term storage conditions. In this respect, the content of tetrahydrocannabinol ( Δ9:!: –THC), cannabinol(CBN), and cannabidiol (CBD) in cannabis resin derived from three different seizures made by criminal prosecution authorities from Romania were measured for up to four years of storage in darkness at 4°C and in laboratory light at 22°C. The results revealed a steadily decay of Δ9–THC over the entire storage period. Inaddition, the samples exhibited a more pronounced decay for the sample exposed to light at 22°C than those stored in darkness at 4°C. For CBD decay, the same trend is valid also. On the contrary, the content of CBN raised steadily during storage, and the raise is more pronounced for the samples exposed to light at 22°C than those stored in the darkness at 4°C

The Influence of Long-term Storage Conditions on the Stability of Cannabinoids derived from Cannabis Resin

-eg

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

Glad to hear the BHO cooking experiment was a success. I hear cannabis (and extracts) really likes coconut oil, moreso than butter or dairy. I cannot take orally anymore as my body has apparently changed and it is usually a very uncomfortable experience, completely unlike vaping or smoking even large quantities. My friends do a slow cook on the crock pot with either hash or bud into the coconut milk or oil, then filter through cheese cloth and use the oil or milk for cooking. Oil is better for brownies and cookies as you can pretty much swap it out 1-1 with butter for most recipes. They say the same amount of herb into the same amount of coconut oil will get you a much cleaner and purer and stronger high than the same amounts into butter. Might be worth a try, should be just as simple.

Is there a general estimate of how much extract a stick of non-salted butter can hold?

What is the largest amount of extract that can be infused into the smallest amount of oil or butter?

I want to use a good deal of extract, but with as little oil or butter as possible.

(Though I think consuming the extract itself would be optimal, I'm still interested in cooking)

Last time I made cannabutter it was a mess, I took large amounts of sweet leaf trim, placed it in a crock-pot with some non-salted butter, and allowed it to heat at low temperature for 12 hours. (I fell asleep, so it ended up being 12 hours, my whole house smelled like cooking cannabutter, it kind of smelled like slightly burned popcorn and pot... ) after cooling in the fridge for 12 hours, I cooked the butter into sugar cookies (which were tinted green from the cannabutter)...now, these cookies were pretty potent, they actually were very effective in producing intense psychoactive and physical effects...but they taste horrible.

...honestly I was really only half invested in this venture, and did not put in the effort I should have, cooking with cannabis is of minimal internet to me, however eating cannabis is of great interest to me, though I'd rather find ways to eat extract, the closest that you can get to eating a "pill" and getting stoned is really my interest, though I'm not a interested in synthetic THC pills like that which is distributed by pharmaceutical companies.

-eg