Could you call it a 5th dimension??

[*oneironaut*]

I think we all can agree that hyperspace certainly has a fourth dimension to it that is unlike our physical reality.. time. It stands still yet it is infinitely accelerated at the same time. So for arguments sake let's say that there is a fourth dimension in hyperspace.

What I ask you to consider is that quality of the experience that could be likened to a fractal, where everything is materializing from within itself. The visuals I experience manifest from an indeterminate point of origin, not from x,y or z like the 3D space we are familiar with. I'm no physicist, so perhaps it does fall within the constructs of our three dimensional vocabulary, but I simply can't classify it as such.
Yes, x,y,z also presents itself in hyperspace and the perception is definitely a 3D space, but what would you classify this ever flowing self transforming source of origin, the "within"?

 

[DeMenTed]

This is a question that scientists are trying to answer in the real world. Is the fifth dimension a tightly curled infinitely small dimension everywhere in front of us but we just can't see it. Hyperspace in that respect is just like a mirror image of real life except that in hyperspace we actually see things appearing from within this invisible dimension.

Ime time doesn't really stand still in dmt land. The arrow of time is still present but while in hyperspace we don't have a notion of time because we aren't clock watching like we might be on shrooms where time stopping is a major feature.

To give the "within" a name mmm i'd maybe call it the deconstruction of our senses or something like that if that makes sense

 

[*oneironaut*]

This is a question that scientists are trying to answer in the real world. Is the fifth dimension a tightly curled infinitely small dimension everywhere in front of us but we just can't see it. Hyperspace in that respect is just like a mirror image of real life except that in hyperspace we actually see things appearing from within this invisible dimension.

Ime time doesn't really stand still in dmt land. The arrow of time is still present but while in hyperspace we don't have a notion of time because we aren't clock watching like we might be on shrooms where time stopping is a major feature.

To give the "within" a name mmm i'd maybe call it the deconstruction of our senses or something like that if that makes sense

yes, makes sense. And I guess "time dilation" is probably a better description than "standing still" but you are correct in that one moment still precedes the other.. i.e. arrow of time (i like that one btw).

thanks for the read and response DeMenTed

 

[Valura]

I think it is important to think differently with this word "dimension". I often see a big confusion regarding this topic, because some people think dimension must mean a spatial dimension - meaning 3d = x,y,z axis. They then presume 4d has the x,y,z axis + something else (in your case time). Others have a much more liberal definition.

Instead of this, I believe it is more logical to see the spatial observation as something less significant. There is much much more to a higher dimension than just another axis or addition. Everything changes very significantly.

It always looks to me like 3d is sort of projected down from the higher dimensions & Source, which go far and far beyond our limited current concept of spatiality as system with x, y and z axis. You cannot determine a point of origin because the experience is outside of the scope of our xyz concept. Instead 'it' is everywhere, like an omnipresence inherent to literally everything.

 

[embracethevoid]

Look into a few things:

Calabi-Yau manifolds

Hilbert space (of special interest here)

David Bohm's concept of infolding/enfolding reality

Holographic principle


Personally, I would say that we are not "living in a 4D universe" but rather we are in an infinite dimensional reality of which the 4D universe is a subset; there is dimensionality to all sorts of things - there is not merely an x,y,z,t but there are also fragrant smells and putrid smells, beautiful colours and ugly colours, melodic sounds and cacophonic sounds.

All of this points towards higher dimensionality already being here now, just the fact that the body generally moves along 4 axes misses the fact that the mind inhabiting it moves along axes orthogonal (perpendicular) to it; how else is it making decisions & computing the immediate future?

 

[DeMenTed]

sounds and smells travel within 4 dimensions don't they?

 

[embracethevoid]

Where does the smell-ness of a smell propagate?

 

[DeMenTed]

Where does colour come from could be a similar question. Smells are just part of nature in the 4d world and we have the sensors to pick them up but i do get where you are coming from ETV

 

[۩]

Hyperspace basically laughs at our feeble concept of dimensions. Nothing is picked up. Everything is created. Consciousness / hyperspace knows no dimensions at all. Not until it funnels thru the prisms that we are do they occur and seem so real and important to us. Imagine a timeless and spaceless instant where everything you thought exists and then some stems from. You would not be able to, yet this is what we are behind the disguise of our lifetimes. Break down the filters and let the light leak into every little capillary. Anything could happen- but its these parameters that dictate the possibilities. Like a file on a hard drive, this version has been corrupted and is gathering the necessary data to make an update that will erase this dream slate clean. Won't be the first time. Or the last time.

Ever wonder why when you go to sleep you wake up and all that time just was never there?

Look at what happens to a drop of rain when it falls into the ocean.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

Wow. I've done DMT lots of times and always wonder why I never get effects like this.

For me hyperspace has no spatial aspects, it is sensory only and makes far too much sense.

And while I cannot represent it, such as with a drawing, because of how complex it is, my mind has no problem grasping it, and understanding it in terms of the experience. It has yet to not make sense to me. It seems natural and normal... just very intense

go figure

 

[olympus mon]

You may want to focus more on 4d which in experience is closer to hyperspace and our ability to conceptualize.

 

[*oneironaut*]

Instead of this, I believe it is more logical to see the spatial observation as something less significant. There is much much more to a higher dimension than just another axis or addition. Everything changes very significantly.

I think this is sort of the notion I was trying to illustrate.. that it is a spatially absent quality. The "substance" that makes up the visual aspect of the hyperspace i see is by all means above and beyond x,y,z or anything that falls into a point a to b to c construct. Things truly flow out from within themselves.. like everything is a point of origin for the next thing...

David Bohm's concept of infolding/enfolding reality

Holographic principle

I've seen the holographic universe film and documentaries and as much as I rejected the idea at first, the more I look inward and experience things the more plausible it seems. Between my lucid dreaming/obe experiences and now DMT it really doesn't seem so far fetched that this "physical" world is just another construct of our own mind/consciousness.

looking into Hilbert space soon, thanks for the references :thumb_up:


BTW I just went into our beloved hyperspace a couple of hours ago with this topic in mind..... and yet again I was reminded that trying to "define" or "understand" it is completely useless, I can't believe it... I can't believe it.... I CAN'T BELIEVE it!!! And damnit...that's good enough! Today topped them all.

Dimension schmension!

 

[*oneironaut*]

Wow. I've done DMT lots of times and always wonder why I never get effects like this.

For me hyperspace has no spatial aspects, it is sensory only and makes far too much sense.

And while I cannot represent it, such as with a drawing, because of how complex it is, my mind has no problem grasping it, and understanding it in terms of the experience. It has yet to not make sense to me. It seems natural and normal... just very intense

go figure

i recently made this post wondering just that.. why some experiences are so similar to mine, yet others sound like nothing further from it. help me understand something... - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

baffles me :shock:

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

yet again I was reminded that trying to "define" or "understand" it is completely useless

May I ask;
What about it is hard to understand?

I've used a lot of psychedelics for the last 15 years and it seems really easy to understand. DMT for me is no more mysterious than mescaline, or mushrooms, or LSD etc

you mentioned this:

everything is a point of origin for the next thing...

that makes a lot of sense and makes it seem to me that you understand "hyperspace" and reality, which is the same, everything is a point of origin for the next thing...

I am struggling to understand what the mystery is.

 

[*oneironaut*]

yet again I was reminded that trying to "define" or "understand" it is completely useless

May I ask;
What about it is hard to understand?

I've used a lot of psychedelics for the last 15 years and it seems really easy to understand. DMT for me is no more mysterious than mescaline, or mushrooms, or LSD etc

you mentioned this:

everything is a point of origin for the next thing...

that makes a lot of sense and makes it seem to me that you understand "hyperspace" and reality, which is the same, everything is a point of origin for the next thing...

I am struggling to understand what the mystery is.

hmmm... well, i'm 40 years old, i've done LSD and shrooms over a hundred times.. slavia a handful of times. I can't even begin to put them in the same category as the DMT breakthrough.. it's ineffable. TRUST ME.. I wish i could put it in words, and i've been trying to find ways to describe it and each time I do it, i realize how far from "explainable" the experience is. Sure there are takeaways, and I can generalize the impressions such as the "mischievous" jester presence and the self transforming geometry strings that look like some sort of data flow from the cosmic super computer blah blah blah.. but when i'm there, it is SO bizarre and alien that i find it truly beyond words, because words are of this reality.. definitely not that one.

I don't think i have an answer for you as your statement "I am struggling to understand what the mystery is." leads me to believe that our experience is VASTLY different. I'm not new to psychedelics and other drugs... I have 25 years under my belt, so.. not sure what to say.

I wonder if you have actually broken through though? It sounds like you have, but when you say "For me hyperspace has no spatial aspects, it is sensory only and makes far too much sense.".. THAT makes no sense to me when it comes to my experience with it thus far. It is SENSORY and VISUAL hypergasm

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

hmmm... well, i'm 40 years old,

34 here

i've done LSD and shrooms over a hundred times.. slavia a handful of times. I can't even begin to put them in the same category as the DMT breakthrough..

I can, not for Salvia though.


You say it is hard to explain, but then imagine trying to describe a scent to someone who could not smell, or a color to someone who is blind. For me no sensory experience is explainable.

self transforming geometry strings that look like some sort of data flow from the cosmic super computer

Mescaline, LSD and mushrooms have all done this for me at high doses, though there are differences with DMT. I have also done DMT while on decent doses of mescaline... I did use the word WOW a lot...

however DMT doesn't feel "alien" to me... but no psychedelics do...

I don't think i have an answer for you as your statement "I am struggling to understand what the mystery is." leads me to believe that our experience is VASTLY different. I'm not new to psychedelics and other drugs... I have 25 years under my belt, so.. not sure what to say.

I am 34 and first tried LSD in highschool about 17 years ago. if you are 40 and have 25 years under your belt... that puts you at 15 for the first time you took psychedelics, which is pretty similar to me, I smoked weed when i was 15 and took acid a couple of years later.

I wonder if you have actually broken through though?

I dunno. I think I have.
I have used pretty high doses that i would not ever recommend and have had some really interesting experiences, and I have used decent doses often enough and low ones as well.

I would say I have 'broken through' on mushrooms, LSD and mescaline as well, at higher dose ranges, but not knowing the experiences of others i can't really say. I have seen a lot of people try and do DMT, my experiences don't seem different from those of the others I have seen first hand... but since none of those people I saw try it had read about hyperspace none of them reported the effects as if they were transported to another dimension... I wonder how much expectation informs the experience? I have no idea.

I did have one friend who read about hyperspace and DMT try it actually, he was very scared to try it and I told hi he would be fine and he was. He did not report another dimension or anything like that, but he is a hacker and said he could see "the source code" of existence when he did it, hwe was the only person to report that, but I have noticed a tendency for users to report effects that have a lot to do with their beliefs as a whole, one person i know who had a friend die and who firmly believes in the afterlife said he saw his friend and made peace with him and it helped him feel a lot better, still nobody else I saw use it reported talking to the dead, or seeing the source code.

It makes me want to take a beginner and fill their heads with strange expectations and see what happens. I once had a friend who took LSD and then some people told him while he was on it that they put an invisible box over his head (*he was gullible) and that he could not speak, and he reported being unable to speak, physically unable to, until they told him they removed the box and he could speak again and then he could. I kind of see this as a strong theme in the psychedelics.

 

[jamie]

Well..I am not as old as you guys..I have only been at this for 10 years now and I did not start until I was 19..but I have taken mushrooms over a hundred times..DMT probly 300+ times and I have also taken salvia probly 100 times..

I have never felt like DMT is more powerful and psilocybin/psilocin. I dunno what to say about that other than maybe you never just never took a really large dose?..I dunno but for me DMT and psilocin can basically do the same thing once you get a certain dose of either one of them in you..especially if you live in an area where woodlovers like cyans and azures grow or you grow pan cyans etc..you will find out real fast just how strong psilocin really is.

Salvinorin is a whole other thing entirely but its not weaker than DMT..not by a long shot.

Mescaline has taken to me a level comparable to DMT also, so has LSA..both when combined with cannabis. I only have maybe 10 mescaline experiences and most were lower doses and one LSA experience(other times seeds never worked) so I cant talk about them too much. LSD I only took 3 times but I can imagine it can get you there if the dose is right.

I definatly feel that DMT and psilocin are equal in strength. The thing is that eating that much psilocin/cybin means your in for it, for hours. Most people dont do that and I dont blame them..and then they extract DMT crystals and vape a giant dose and come back thinking its way stronger than psilocin..but IME it is just not true.

 

[*oneironaut*]

To both Jamie and Albert

You both have clearly out dosed me

All my mushroom trips have been under an 1/8 (3.5g) and my highest dose of LSD was about 5-6 tabs so I really can't speak to "heroic" doses. MDMA, I probably shouldn't have survived but that was long ago and probably took over 1000+ in those years (from age 18-32) but that's for another forum

So clearly, strength isn't what I'm really talking about. I'm coming from a subjective experience... mine. Nothing I have done to date has presented me with such an intensity and complete replacement of reality as DMT has, saliva was close, but I was a bit shy with it and only did it a few times.

Also keep in mind, I'm a DMT noob, so it is something new to ME, in time I'm sure I will be able to "understand" it within a model I have built on, but until then. I is a complete mystery to me. I may also be somewhat sensitive to it too.. I completely break through with 20mg and today I split 25mg into two back to back sessions, the first one was sub-breakthrough but quite strong and the second one took me much further than ever.. and ever. (keep in mind my ever is only 4 breakthroughs and 5 sub breakthrough) so, this 40 year old is just learning to roll over let alone crawl when it comes to DMT. But from what I have experienced, I am absolutely fascinated and "wowed" .. i would like embark on an aya journey and see how it compares. Good thing about being 40 is, I aint dead yet and have time to earn my DMT stripes.

If it wasn't for this forum, I would NEVER have experienced it at all. So all I can say is I tip my hat and am glad to have found my way

*O*

 

[nen888]

*oneironaut* wrote:

The visuals I experience manifest from an indeterminate point of origin, not from x,y or z like the 3D space we are familiar with. I'm no physicist, so perhaps it does fall within the constructs of our three dimensional vocabulary, but I simply can't classify it as such.

..high dose smoked DMT ('flooding' as some call it) can result in 'impossible directions', colours that don't usually exist etc..but i'm still not sure i understand what you mean by 'indeterminate origin'..a few people on flood doses (incl. myself) have had multi-point vision..like being able to see behind you as well forwards at the same time, or the 'cubist-effect' of being able to see under/behind/on-top of say, a table, at the same time..

..there is, i subjectively think, a kind of parallel time in tryptamine 'space'..where sequences of events occur at a rate or logic independent of external linear time..this is usually what i think of as a '5th dimension'..a sideways timeline..
'no time passed and yet a lot happened..'

but we all need to develop better language/terminology i think to work out what the hell we're talking about!

 

[nen888]

..to add to my previous post:
if you can still make out a 'point', then this is within the bounds of 3/4D geometry..

transdimensional objects (like the hypercube) can only be represented as 'slices' of higher dimensional orders in 3D representations..

sure, the level of perceiving transdimensional is beyond description in 3/4D..
but, it's also impossible to say what one is looking at either, at this level..

in superstring theory the extra 6 dimensions are 'enfolded' within the ordinary 4..
.