crystalizing mescaline salts/cactus extraction info thread

[dg]

ok, im getting lots of questions about crystalization/clean up,-PLEASE NOTE, EXTRACTION DETAILS FOLLOW CRYSTALIZATION, SORRY ITS BACKWARDS
looks like dual solovent forced precip is being considered more and more, thats good!!

so i thought i'd start a thread to keep it all together, and avoid repeating myself

please post questions you think of here, feel free to pm me if i lag on replying

as for the initial extraction, some basic pointers:
i recomend alot more base than all the teks ive seen here. about 1:1 using lye or koh(strong bases!) this will fully break down the cacti sludge, no need for: straining, boiling, deskinning, despinning, etc

add base to cacti sludge, mix with high speed paint mixer, then wait until the solution turns "watery" before adding the NP. now there is no slimey cacti to form emulsions, and the fb is fully free, and ready to migrate to the np.

for a crystalization tek, see here simple titration, and dual solvent crystalization - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

for Re-crystalization here is a simple
procedure

1.place dry hcl or sulphate salts powder into a quart mason jar

2.place mason jar in pot of boiling water ie: doubleboiler

3.add as few drops of dh20 as possible to get the salts to dissolve, note: wait till the water is really hot before adding more, mescaline salts are much more soluable in very hot water.

4. add an equal amount of acetone once the salts have Fully disolved.
note: if you used too much water by accident, just doubleboil it on down until the solution is again very concentrated
note2: acetone can boil rapidly when added, be safe!
note3: no need to dry the acetone
note4: as hcl satls are more soluable than sulphates, there will be some loss, thats ok, keep the acetone, add it to your next extraction/if you are a badass, distill off the tone, and add the left over gunk to the next run..

5. put lid on jar, toss in freezer.

6. wait until morning, quickly filter the crystals thru std coffee filter. keep the solution Cold, especially using hcl! the filter it in the freezer even

7. remove filter from funnel to dry-once dry 99% of crystals fall off.

8. i like a heat lamp to dry them out, and drive off any residual acetone smell. in fact, they typically set out in the air for several days before i pack them away

further clean up:
add needles to a minimum of hot dh20, this will make any residual solovent become exposed from inclusions in crystal matrix, so it can evap.
allow water to slowly evap
the crystals likely will never be as nice looking as they were, but if you feel this final clean up is needed, there it is

ok, i have more thoughts on the subject, but i'm tired.. more later

 

[futura]

How is the MEK/Water recrystaliztion done in comparison to the Acetone/Water method?

I have also read about Mek/Water then adding Acetone ...how is that method done and is it superior to just mek/water or Water/acetone methods?

 

[hyperspacing]

Sweet xtals dg. ill definitly be trying that on my next extraction.

Ps. I have the same sulfuric acid (ph down) what ratio drops:water do you use?

 

[dg]

How is the MEK/Water recrystaliztion done in comparison to the Acetone/Water method?

I have also read about Mek/Water then adding Acetone ...how is that method done and is it superior to just mek/water or Water/acetone methods?

never used 3 solovents, seems redundant
mek behaves similarly to tone, but i use tone mostly

 

[dg]

Sweet xtals dg. ill definitly be trying that on my next extraction.

Ps. I have the same sulfuric acid (ph down) what ratio drops:water do you use?

only as many as are needed to titrate the mix to about ph 6
read the link in post one to crystalization for my prefered salting method

 

[dg]

here is a reply i made about salting using sulfuric acid, thought id post here to share.

quoting dg:
you mean fish ph down sulphuric acid?(sold at pet shops)
i use it. its fine as is out of the bottle.
here's what i do.
add 1/4 to 1/2 cup dh20 to the np

begin adding drops of acid from the bottle(its pre diluted for the fishies) start small and work your way up.
say add 20-40 drops,

shake jar to mix well.
check ph of water layer.

if its above 5.5-6ph repeat above steps until it is.

allow layers to totally settle, no emulsions past this point.( crockpot to heat it helps break emulsions.)

some emulsion can be decanted with the water, it filters out very easily in a funnel stuffed with a prewetted cotton ball

take clear water/salts, and evap, or crash out with acetone after reduction

 

[futura]

How is the MEK/Water recrystaliztion done in comparison to the Acetone/Water method?

quote]


mek behaves similarly to tone, but i use tone mostly

Thanks...I tremembered you answered this question in a previous post so I am quoting that post below:

dry crude m.hcl
add to mek. slowly/safely bring mek to boil, or until all hcl dissolves. dont pre dry mek like in most "teks"
if it all wont dissolve, add a tiny squirt of water until it does.
boil the mek down 20-50% in volume--experiment to get the right ratios with small amounts
if the mek gets cloudy again, its time to stop, and let it cool in the freezer. filter the needles when the grow

 

[dg]

thanks Futura i appreciate it, and: as you can see, there are lots of effective ways to tweak things/adapt them to the situation, or materials on hand

allow layers to totally settle, no emulsions past this point.( crockpot to heat it helps break emulsions.)

some emulsion can be decanted with the water, it filters out very easily in a funnel stuffed with a prewetted cotton ball

this part is important, so i will go into further deatail

ok, so you have your np solovent,
_you've added water and acid,
shook it up really well.
now its time to siphon off the water,
_and there is white fluffy emulsions mixed with water and np solovent. this is common.

solutions:
1.heat solution to break emulsion. (i loose patience, and typically revert to solution 2)
2. siphon off all the lower layer, water, white junk, and bubbly np
2a. once its all decanted, pour it into a funnel with a pre wetted cotton ball stuffed in. you want the water to drip thru slowly, not pour thru(this is one place where my vac filter stays put away, gravity filtration is best for this method)

the water will seperate from the mix in the cotton ball, and only at the very end of filtering will np or emulsion begin to come thru the cotton ball. If Any np comes thru, repeat this step

now the water layer will be mostly clear, some discoloration is not uncommon, and if you have Alot of alks in solution the water could be cloudy(you'll know you have lots of alks there if it took Alot of acid to do the titration step!!)

this will ensure that the solution you are going to evap, or crash out is as clean as possible
here is an example of:
1.emulsified solution during salting
2. breaking emulsion safely with sparkless hotplate and double boiler
3. solution after heating
4. filtering set-up

oops, i want to add pics, maybe next post...

 

[dg]

ok, some more on extraction in general, next post

 

[dg]

as for the initial extraction, some basic pointers:
i recomend alot more base than all the teks ive seen here. about 1:1 using lye or koh(strong bases!) this will fully break down the cacti sludge, no need for: straining, boiling, deskinning, despinning, etc

add base to cacti sludge, mix with high speed paint mixer, then wait until the solution turns "watery" before adding the NP. now there is no slimey cacti to form emulsions, and the fb is fully free, and ready to migrate to the np.

some additional info:
as a cacti grower, and someone who loves these plants as living creatures, i like to show them as much respect as possible. i also wouldn't order dried skins from vendors, as i think its best kept behind closed doors, not marketed all over the internet like a fad/ quick easy high or other bs...

in my climate i have a few losses every year, and my green house is small, so i need to thin out the weaklings from time to time. otherwise my cacti are not grown expressly for alkaloid production. thats just bonusville.

that said, even dead and rotting cacti can be used for extraction,
cacti can be harvested 1/2 dead, tossed in a barrel to "ferment" for months/ turn to goo, and still be extracted just fine

like with crystalization, there are many routes to sucsessful cacti extraction

a simple run down
1.remove core from cacti
2.blend cacti with minimal water, just enough to mix
3.add blended cacti snot with base and enough water to dissolve base in 5 gal bucket
3a.blend with paint mixer on drill( pop hole in bucket lid as splash gaurd)
3b.one 5gal bucket of snot is approx 500-1000g dried material/so use 500-1000g of base
4. wait until the snot has slacked, the base has now digested the plant matter, and the solution is almost watery
5. add a 1-1.5" layer of xylene or tolulene(tolly smells less, but i always use xylol)
6.mix slowly with your mixer. not on high speed. low speed
7. siphon off xylol(xylene) once it has seperated, be sure to avoid any of the basic solution.
8. proceed to salting.


if needed i could add a pictorial of these steps over time...
dg
you cant use too much base. a 1-1 ratio (if the cacti was dry!!, is good)

 

[jmaxton]

Excellent thread, dg. Thank you!

Can you describe your siphoning device? Looks like a modified baster, but I can't quite get a good look at the whole thing in any of the pics you posted. Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere.

Peace,
-JM

 

[dg]

Excellent thread, dg. Thank you!

Can you describe your siphoning device? Looks like a modified baster, but I can't quite get a good look at the whole thing in any of the pics you posted. Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere.

Peace,
-JM

yer welcome!


nope, ive not mentioned it before.
i have a fair bit of real lab ware, sep funnels-stands rings,vac-filters, hotplate/mag stirrer, distillation equip, all the basic tools really, but i keep them stored at a friends house. on hand i prefer:
mason jars, turkey basters, plastic buckets, hdpe tubing, common household chemicals, common plastic funnels, coffee filters and cotton balls, ph papers over a meter, kitchen cookware, etc. nothing that screams LAB

pictured is a ss turkey baster with the end(nozzle) crimped down, and the bulb tight wired to the other end, for best suction.

better, more accurate results with a 36" section of 1/4" hdpe tubing, but it takes practice

 

[dg]

if you made it this far, sorry for my poor typing habits, poor spelling, lack of capitalization/punctuation etc

 

[jmaxton]

if you made it this far, sorry for my poor typing habits, poor spelling, lack of capitalization/punctuation etc

Looks fine to me. Thanks again for posting all this goodness!

 

[Phantastica]

looks like some very amazing stuff dg! haven't read it yet (too lazy and sleepy) but will do so soon as i myself am currently working on a cactus extraction. thank you very much for sharing this knowledge:d