cyb's ATB questions

[utahraptor]

I am using a ATB extraction using Cyb's max ion technique. The procedure I plan to follow with 100g ACRB is as follows:

Supplies:
1 1 liter+ glass (with lid) container A for baths.
1 200ml glass container B for acid addition.
1 400ml+ glass dish C for crystallization.
1 300ml+ glass container D for naphtha storage.
1 small glass container E for final product collection.
1 plastic wrap
1 stir rod
1 hair dryer
1 clippers
1 crock pot for warm baths
1 large syringe/baster
1 pH paper

100g ACRB
filtered water
200ml distilled vinegar
100g NaOH
100g NaCl
300ml Naphtha


Preparation:
-Cut 100g bark into small shreds.
-Place plant material in container A and cover with water.{around 300-400ml}
-Heat this mixture in a warm water bath for 1 hour.
-Return to room temperature and then freeze.
-After it is frozen, take out, thaw and refreeze.
Repeat 3X
3 hours cook + 1 hour preparation + freeze/thaw time (can be spread over days)
= 4 hours

Acidify:
-Add plant material and distilled vinegar (50ml) and water until pH 2-4.
-Place container A in warm water bath for 8+ hours.
.5 hours preparation + 8.5 hours cook = 9 hours

Defat:
-Cool to room temperature.
-Add 50ml warm, light Naphtha.
-Shake 3X, remove Naphtha and dispose.
.5 hours

Salinate:
-Add salt solution. {200ml hot water + 70-80g NaCl, then add water to top off }
.5 hours

Base:
-Dissolve 40g NaOH in a minimal amount of cool water {100ml}. Container B.
-Add to acidic/saline mix in container A. pH 12+ desired.
-Warm in warm water bath for 2 hours.
-Stir 20 min intervals.
-Cool to room temperature.
3 hours

Pull:
-Add 50ml hot naphtha to container A, SWIRL/MIX IMMEDIATELY. Release pressure.
-Allow to settle while in hot water bath.
Repeat mix and settle 3X
-Extract Naphtha and add to container C.
-Cool to room temperature.
-Add to fridge.
Repeat pulls 6X+ with hot Naphtha. Combine in fridge.
2 hours

Freeze Precipitate:
-Evaporate Naphtha container C to 40% original amount with cool fan. Should appear milky.
-Freeze container C for 48 hours with sealed wrap covering.
-Pour off Naphtha and store in container D. Can be washed with water if yellow or dirty.
-Dry crystals with a cold fan 30 min+.
-Scrape to crystal container E.
48 hours freeze, unknown evaporation time, 1 hour crystal harvest = 48 hours waiting... 1 hour work

Re-Crystallization: if necessary
-Re-Crystallize using 50ml hot Naphtha in shot glass.
-Fan dry 30 min+.
-Scrape to crystal container E.

My questions would probably be more appropriate on an extraction help thread, but I can't post there lol.

1. Would using HCl instead of vinegar have an adverse effect on product or yields or difficulty pulling? (obviously a scaled amount to achieve the same pH of 2)

2. Are there any other options to use instead of NaOH that would result in identical results?

3. Cheapest form to buy NaOH in? I have read about drain cleaner from hardware stores as a possibility, does anyone have a particular product that has worked well for their purposes?

Thanks!

 

[datdmt]

I am using a ATB extraction using Cyb's max ion technique. The procedure I plan to follow with 100g ACRB is as follows:

Supplies:
1 1 liter+ glass (with lid) container A for baths.
1 200ml glass container B for acid addition.
1 400ml+ glass dish C for crystallization.
1 300ml+ glass container D for naphtha storage.
1 small glass container E for final product collection.
1 plastic wrap
1 stir rod
1 hair dryer
1 clippers
1 crock pot for warm baths
1 large syringe/baster
1 pH paper

100g ACRB
filtered water
200ml distilled vinegar
100g NaOH
100g NaCl
300ml Naphtha


Preparation:
-Cut 100g bark into small shreds.
-Place plant material in container A and cover with water.{around 300-400ml}
-Heat this mixture in a warm water bath for 1 hour.
-Return to room temperature and then freeze.
-After it is frozen, take out, thaw and refreeze.
Repeat 3X
3 hours cook + 1 hour preparation + freeze/thaw time (can be spread over days)
= 4 hours

Acidify:
-Add plant material and distilled vinegar (50ml) and water until pH 2-4.
-Place container A in warm water bath for 8+ hours.
.5 hours preparation + 8.5 hours cook = 9 hours

Defat:
-Cool to room temperature.
-Add 50ml warm, light Naphtha.
-Shake 3X, remove Naphtha and dispose.
.5 hours

Salinate:
-Add salt solution. {200ml hot water + 70-80g NaCl, then add water to top off }
.5 hours

Base:
-Dissolve 40g NaOH in a minimal amount of cool water {100ml}. Container B.
-Add to acidic/saline mix in container A. pH 12+ desired.
-Warm in warm water bath for 2 hours.
-Stir 20 min intervals.
-Cool to room temperature.
3 hours

Pull:
-Add 50ml hot naphtha to container A, SWIRL/MIX IMMEDIATELY. Release pressure.
-Allow to settle while in hot water bath.
Repeat mix and settle 3X
-Extract Naphtha and add to container C.
-Cool to room temperature.
-Add to fridge.
Repeat pulls 6X+ with hot Naphtha. Combine in fridge.
2 hours

Freeze Precipitate:
-Evaporate Naphtha container C to 40% original amount with cool fan. Should appear milky.
-Freeze container C for 48 hours with sealed wrap covering.
-Pour off Naphtha and store in container D. Can be washed with water if yellow or dirty.
-Dry crystals with a cold fan 30 min+.
-Scrape to crystal container E.
48 hours freeze, unknown evaporation time, 1 hour crystal harvest = 48 hours waiting... 1 hour work

Re-Crystallization: if necessary
-Re-Crystallize using 50ml hot Naphtha in shot glass.
-Fan dry 30 min+.
-Scrape to crystal container E.

My questions would probably be more appropriate on an extraction help thread, but I can't post there lol.

1. Would using HCl instead of vinegar have an adverse effect on product or yields or difficulty pulling? (obviously a scaled amount to achieve the same pH of 2)

2. Are there any other options to use instead of NaOH that would result in identical results?

3. Cheapest form to buy NaOH in? I have read about drain cleaner from hardware stores as a possibility, does anyone have a particular product that has worked well for their purposes?

Thanks!

1. As long as you have a ph stick....or papers. Low ph is low ph. doesn't matter how you get there. just shoot for a 4

2. 'ph up' , same logic as before.

3. go to lowes or home depot, or any big hardware store, and go to plumbing. look at drain cleaner, and find one that 100% lye, AFOAF bought some and said it was only $10 for way more than enough.

Also, there is a possibility that your product will be goo, don't be discouraged and DON'T throw it out, just collect it on single edge razor, find a way to measure, then make some changa. ACRB is notorious for goo.

 

[utahraptor]

Thanks DatDMT!

Is changa suitable to smoke for the same breakthrough effect as vaporized crystals?

 

[alert]

A couple things I would change:

1.) No need to defat ACRB in my experience. If you want to feel free but I've never noticed any difference in the end product.


2.) Acidify your bark prior to the freeze/thaw cycles (freeze/thaw in the acidic solution) . I don't know how stable DMT hcl is but if you use vinegar the alkaloids won't be damaged at all.

3.) If possible, either after or before the freeze/thaw cycles run your shredded bark through a blender. If you don't have a blender that is fine, but in my experience powdered ACRB yields better then shredded even if it is shredded very fine.

4.) As far as the sodium hyroxide goes, go to the hardware store and look for "Rooto" brand assuming you are in the US. Anything that is 100% lye will work though. Pure lye can also be easily acquired online. It runs about $5/lb at my local hardware store, expect to pay about double that if you buy it online.

Is changa suitable to smoke for the same breakthrough effect as vaporized crystals?

Yes, yes, yes!

 

[utahraptor]

Thanks Alert!

I'll add the acid before my freeze/thaw cycle and use vinegar to be safe. I will try one shredded and one powdered (assuming I can procure a blender to sacrifice to bark).

In your experience have you gotten goo or crystals from your ACRB extractions?

I will have to look into changa... I haven't heard much about it, besides that a MAOI is required.

 

[alert]

I've gotten both crystals and goo from my ACRB extractions. The only way I have gotten crystals is when I used hot solvent to pull and let it mix/separate from the basic soup 8-10 times. After decanting the naphtha instead of freeze precipitating I will let it sit at room temperature overnight. In the morning, depending on the batch, lots of crystals will have fallen out of the solution. Filter the crystals that fell out from the solvent and proceed to freeze precipitate the solvent. I have personally gotten goo every time I freeze precipitated ACRB but honestly I don't mind the stuff. It is a pain to handle but it is extremely active and I prefer the NMT/DMT combo to pure DMT. Also, it is worth mentioning that even when I get goo from freeze precipitation it looks like crystals at first, but once they reach room temperature then they melt into a goo. I have found that dissolving the goo in IPA and letting it evaporate will form a wax like solid that is easier to work wit.

As far as the changa comment, to make a *true* changa you do need to either add an MAOI or use an MAOI containing plant. You can also however make enhanced leaf, this is the same thing as changa without MAOIs. I only make enhanced leaf at the moment and not true "changa" because I am on an SNRI so no MAOI's for me.

You can easily breakthrough with just an enhanced leaf, MAOI's are not required but I do suggest you try them out sometime because they change the experience a bit. If you don't have any experience with DMT yet I would suggest trying an enhanced leaf first before adding MAOI's so you can get a feeling of what the plant has to offer on it's own.

 

[datdmt]

Thanks DatDMT!

Is changa suitable to smoke for the same breakthrough effect as vaporized crystals?

yes, its not a intense and crazy as freebase, it comes on slow and stays a little longer. you can add different flowers that interact with the dmt in different ways. and its easy to smoke, and a lot of people prefer it to freebase.

 

[utahraptor]

Thanks guys! Great info here. Looks like I have some experimenting to do...