Cyb's Max Ion Tek - Acid Solution Question?

[Triptic]

Everything is so clear in the tek except the acid solution to me. I am wondering if I over acidified the solution, so want to make sure I get it right going forward.

So I am working with 50g ACRB. Freeze/thawing with 300ml filtered water.

Cyb's tek calls for minimal vinegar add to 50ml filtered water for the acid solution to be added to the mix. Doing a test I found that it took a mere 15ml vinegar to turn straight 350ml filtered water (idea bing 300ml water in freeze/thaw and 50ml water in acid solution) to the desired 4 ph.

So the final question is does this sound like an alright amount of vinegar to water for the 8hr acid heat bath. Does it sound like too much, or maybe too little?

I appreciate any help here. This will be my third attempt. First attempt only garnered me 200mg white xtals, and still waiting results of second that I am pretty sure I messed up. Low yield could be from low yielding bark, but hoping its just me and things improve as I get more comfortable and solid with the tek.

thank you.

 

[Triptic]

Ok, so it appears having the ACRB in the mix also effects the ph. Basically ended up with 60ml vinegar to a total of 350ml filtered water and 50g ACRB. I'm using some really dirt cheap litmus strips to measure the ph levels, so not totally confident in the strips accuracy. Any thoughts on the acid bath? It's just started the acidifying acid bath about fifteen minutes ago. Think I need to add more vinegar, or will need to some time in the 8 hour bath?

Thanks again for any responses, and obviously hope to hear from somebody.

 

[cyb]

Tek calls for a small amount of acid (vinegar, approx 50ml) in enough water to cover the bark powder.
Having looked at the wording I can see how you misinterpreted, it will be changed.

50ml is probably overkill in that small amount of water but as long as the mixture is at a low pH value (2-4) you're good to go.
If the acrb is raising the value, just add a touch more acid.

 

[Triptic]

Awesome, thanks for the quick reply, Cyb. Relieves some concerns.

A few other things, if you don't mine my thoughts on, that had me guessing a little in the Tek (that I figured would not affect things either way) are in number of repetitions for freeze/thaws and pulls. If the x3 and x6 were in addition to the first or in total. In other words first freeze/thaw plus three more totaling 4, or if x3 is a total all together of 3 freeze/thaws. Similarly with pulls 1+ 6 for 7 pulls total, or just six all together.

These are my first extractions, so I am sure I am over complicating it as I have yet to see questions in regard to this brought up.

Great to hear from you, and hope to get this all down and start seeing some awesome end results.

 

[Triptic]

Oh, in the end after reading the Why? Section of the Tek I read the mention of x3 freeze/thaws total, so applied that to pulls and figured 6 total.

Beautiful tek by the way, and appreciate a tek that starts with a lower amount of RB or TrB.

 

[cyb]

Freeze it and thaw it 3 times total...this will break up the cell structure and release the molecule into the acidic solution. The acid should help dissolve the cells as well.
Nap pulls:
Just keep pulling till nothing comes out in the freeze precip.
6 should be enough...if you only get say, 10mg coming out in the later pulls, then stop. It's not really worth your while carrying on for such tiny amounts.
But every little bit helps right?

Max Ion is a bit advanced for a 1st extract. Have a look at My first tek for pics...it will be easier for you to visualise what's going on.

 

[Triptic]

Yep yep, got them both, and honestly they both make total sense to me. Decided going the max ion route as I am coming into this late and haven't found a mimosa opportunity. So with the mention of ACRB being successfully extracted with max ion, it was the route I went. The pictures in your first tek have gone a long way in helping my way through.

 

[Triptic]

This is where I am currently at on the third extraction. Had a fourth freeze/thaw mainly due to an a long wait between one of the thaws and the next freeze.

 

[Triptic]

Have been using 7"x7" pyrex dishes, but will be upping it to a 7"x11" to try to spread the pulls out a bit. I think the second extraction I overkilled between the amount of both acid and base used. I just had an issue with the litmus strips never seeming to quite show the color that was provided on the color key, but as I mentioned these are some cheap strips and may be showing inaccuracies with the solution.

A few last questions, I guess, is how long do you tend shaking each pull? And how much do you shake... or do you think rolling the vessel around better?

I read in some teks people shaking for onwards and upwards of fifteen minutes on up to fourty five minutes per pull. I've only shaken for maybe thirty seconds, let separate, and repeat for a total of three times before pulling. First extraction netted me 200mg, and I shook fairly vigorously each time. The second extraction I did more rolling, and little to no shaking... but as I said, I think I messed that whole extraction up royally and am not expecting much of anything. Sorry for picking your brain so late at night, but thank you for your time and patience.

 

[cyb]

how long do you tend shaking each pull? And how much do you shake... or do you think rolling the vessel around better?

Check the first tek...it's the same.
Roll/shake (lightly) for a good 30-40 secs...then leave to separate (few mins), then do it again (4x times total)...I just shake it up, leave and come back and do it again every time I pass the bottle. You can do more if you like, it just needs to be thoroughly mixed and the naphtha to touch 'every' part of the lye/bark mix so that transfer can take place.
Usually takes around 45mins to an hour for the 4 rounds.

Don't shake too hard...the salt will help to stop emulsions forming (tiny bubbles in a layer) but if you go mad on the shaking, it might, so be gentle.

Smaller dishes are better if you have them as the crystal will concentrate and grow better if it's not spread out...as long as they have a flat bottom for ease of scraping.

Oh and in your schedule (step 12)...the 50ml of water is wrong...you need to cover the bark in water (plus a 1/4 inch more so its not too sludgy) then add 50ml of vinegar (or however much gets you to pH 2-4)

 

[Triptic]

Yep, that will be fixed next go around. Currently have bark powder cover with acid water, about an inch standing above the bark in a 1lt bottle. Probably should not have added the extra 50ml, as the 300ml from the freeze/thaw was still plenty for covering the bark and then some.

 

[Triptic]

Good to know on the roll/shake. 45min? The temperature equilibrium mentioned in the tek I am assuming is in regard to the first roll/shake as I would assume after 45min the equilibrium would have occurred long before?

 

[cyb]

45min? The temperature equilibrium mentioned in the tek I am assuming is in regard to the first roll/shake as I would assume after 45min the equilibrium would have occurred long before?

If he nap floats to the top straight away then roll again etc...might only take you 10 mins to do them all.
Equilibrium will occur but by that time the heat differential will have done its job.

 

[Triptic]

Excellent! Looking forward to the morning to continue on with this batch, and starting a new one hopefully next week with added confidence from these notes. Thank you so much, you have been invaluable.