• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

d- limo mesc tech kwicky

Migrated topic.
mrwiggle

mrwiggle

Rising Star
okey dokey, i was thinking its time for an advent, and i got all the fixins' for a d limonine extraction on some cacti. 69rons tec uses only 100 g of cacti, i was wanting to do maybe 500-1000 g (havent fully decided) but i wanted to see if anyone thinks this increase in volume would cause unforseen complications before i start?
 
If I was using such a large amount I'd do an aqueous a/b.

Rons tel may be messy with large amounts and will require a LOT of limonene. Sticking with Ron's ratios would require 3L for 1000g.
 
Sorry to hack-in this topic. I'm going to extract soon with a larger amount of dry material as well.
@soulfood: Does a aqueous a/b means that you first make a concentrated tea, basify that and then do pulls with limonene?
 
SWIM's experience with 250g's required more lime than just multiplying 69Ron's ratios. It also needed longer basing time and sucked up a lot of extra d-limo.

Poekus, when the aqueous A/B, I believe that you also have to include a defat stage. Phlux- has a tek written out.
 
I just found this topic on the forum:

Member Tribo describes a tek also with concentrated juice. I didn't found a defat step in this one. Also in the flux Tek I can't find defatting.

I did a wet cactus (blended) extraction once exactly the same way as with the 69ron tek. It yielded great. But indeed the limo got stuck in the goop far more than with dry material.

I'll try it with concentrated basified juice soon and continue from that point with the 69ron tek. The watery juice probably separate with limo easier than a goop. Just have to figure out if basifying the juice is possible with lime or better with NaOh because of the low water solubility of lime.
 
Looks like a defat is fairly optional. It's discussed here, with Noman in favor and soulfood saying it's not really necessary. 69Ron made such a big deal about how his drytek is groundbreaking for not requiring the defat, I had integrated it as necessary.

Thanks for getting me to look closer!
 
defat definitely not necessary for narmz fumarate tek. it is basically an aqueous a/b, pull with d-limo and salt with FASI.
 
hmm, well the primary reason i chose 69rons tec was because i have limo, vineager(acetic acid) and pickling lime, i am resistant to going out and getting more materials if it is possible to get a good yeild without excess difficulty with what i have, can i do this aquious a/b or some other bulk technique without naoh or fumaric acid etc (i also want to use food grade materials and go easy on the pocket book, limo is expensive if i gotta run through almost a gal of it for an extraction) what is the best path my friend?
 
I just read on a reef forum that a saturated Calcium hydroxide solution should have a PH of around 12 at room temperature.

This means only 0.75 grams of lime has to be dissolved in a concentarted 500ml tea. So that's even a lot less than the dry tek.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-133767.html .


- For freebase Mescaline, the solubility is 84100 mg/L. (MEYLAN,WM ET AL. (1996))

- For Hcl this is about 100 mg per ml.

Assuming the dried cactus material contains 5 grams of mescaline in a salt form comparable to Hcl you could possibly concentrate this easily in a 500 ml water solution leaving room for the lime and other alkaloid and fats. It probably will take some time to cook/strain those chips to make sure all the goods are in the water.

The freebase is only slightly less soluble then the initial salt so this won't be a problem when basifying.


If all assumptions are right you could proceed the tek with even less limo then ron's tek and with the same substances. I read about ratio water/solvent at 3:1 for aqueous extractions. Also separation must be a breeze with concentrated juice.
 
well, i dont think i have hcl, i have 5% acedic (vineagar), will this work equally well?
 
You can salt with vinegar, hcl and various other acids. 5% vinegar will work but your only option for cleaning it is MEK. You can also consume the uncleaned acetate (full alkaloid) as-is. It's even supposed to be more active per weight than Hcl when both cleaned.
 
ok good good, i plan to forgo to mek both for the sake of having full spectrum alk's and for the sake of not dealing with mek to review i am to mix 500ml water and 500g cactus, slow cook to a relativly concentrated solution (do a few batches to ensure one has all the goodies), base with lime to a ph of about 12 then filter, mix 3parts tea to 1 part dlimo, mix limo/tea with vinegar, separate, evap vinegar until left with dry substance which will be full spectrum mesc acetate?

should i also do a freeze and decant step before i filter the tea?

is there anything important i left out?
 
I just read on a reef forum that a saturated Calcium hydroxide solution should have a PH of around 12 at room temperature.

This means only 0.75 grams of lime has to be dissolved in a concentarted 500ml tea. So that's even a lot less than the dry tek.
Click to expand...


where did this info come from? i was under the impression that lime is very poorly soluble in water. 69ron uses lime in a drytek or limetek. in other words, lime is used in a tek designed for lime only. if one is going to be boiling large amounts of water and basifying that, then naoh or koh would normally be used. this is my understanding. if one wants to use lime, then follow the limetek.

dont forget that limonene can be reused at least several times.
 
mrwiggle said:
ok good good, i plan to forgo to mek both for the sake of having full spectrum alk's and for the sake of not dealing with mek to review i am to mix 500ml water and 500g cactus, slow cook to a relativly concentrated solution (do a few batches to ensure one has all the goodies), base with lime to a ph of about 12 then filter, mix 3parts tea to 1 part dlimo, mix limo/tea with vinegar, separate, evap vinegar until left with dry substance which will be full spectrum mesc acetate?

should i also do a freeze and decant step before i filter the tea?

is there anything important i left out?
Click to expand...


if this is your first extraction, then possibly a good route if you want to use lime and d-limonene and vinegar is to just follow 69ron's tek the best you can, and start small (50-100g dried).
 
biopsylo said:
where did this info come from? i was under the impression that lime is very poorly soluble in water. 69ron uses lime in a drytek or limetek. in other words, lime is used in a tek designed for lime only. if one is going to be boiling large amounts of water and basifying that, then naoh or koh would normally be used. this is my understanding. if one wants to use lime, then follow the limetek.
Click to expand...

It says so in the reef link which is under text. Also googling it you'll find on other sites that it will take PH 12-12.5 when saturated (1,5 grams per litre).

It's still an assumption as written in my post but I'll check it this week with 500 ml water, 0.8 grams of CaOh and a PH meter.
Click to expand...
 
While waiting for my new accurate PH meter to arive, I searched a little more on basifying water with lime.

I found a site several substances with their PH in solutions are displayed. Also here explicitly mentioned that a saturated solution with CaOH has a PH of 12. So most probably lime will work equally well for a aqueous foodsafe A/B.
In fact it did already worked for me sort of speak with blended cactus which was quite watery with normal active yield.


Taken from the following link: Caveman to Chemist Projects: Lime and Lye :

'But the solubility of calcium hydroxide is only 0.19 g/100 mL. That is, no matter how much calcium hydroxide we add to 100 mL of water, only 0.19 g will actually dissolve. Even so, a saturated solution of calcium hydroxide has a pH of 12. '

The more I think and read about it, the more it makes sense to me that making a concentrated tea first is the way to go.
Most probably a lot less d-limonene can be used as the ratios for other solvent aqueous teks are 3:1, no ugly cactus mud separation and even a lot less lime could be used. The tea as the basis for an extraction also seems the preferred method for most skilled chemistry oriented Nexians as I read in several topics. Next week my new cactus chips will hopefully arrive and I'll write a report extracting it this way.
Also I'll describe how I built a ultra low cost 'getto' magnetic stirrer based on a DIY internet design which can be very usefull in the extraction.

The only disadvantage I see so far is the boiling/straining process which will take some time extra opposed to the 69Ron drytek.
 
My new cactus has arrived so going to experiment with it this week. My new PH meter didn't arrive yet (my old one is not measuring correctly).
I spitted through the Phlux mescaline extraction TEK and there the more experienced guys on the forum like Soulfood advice against CaOh for a wet tek. Also Antichode dumped in a bunch of CaOH and couldn't get seperation with limo anymore. When the meter aarives I'll try the CaOH in small amount to see wether it can take water up to PH12 and otherwise pick up some lye instead although not feeling very comfortable with that because of possible residue left in the final product which is warned for at erowid. I couldn't find info on wether potential spills will be dissolved by an acetone wash.
 
Back
Top Bottom