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Datura stramonium: a valuable admixture plant

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Well for SWIM, three D. inoxia seeds allow him to fall asleep immediately when the effects kick in. SWIM normally takes a long time to fall asleep. With D. inoxia, he sleeps really fast and has TONS OF DREAMS. For him the dreams start as soon as he lays down and closes his eyes! I don’t know if that’s just SWIM’s reaction to it or not. If ever SWIM has a hard time falling asleep he now uses D. inoxia. The following morning he wakes us feeling really refreshed.
 
This is all such wonderful info, thank you 69ron. SWIM ordered 25 d. stramonium seeds last week and is awaiting their delivery to personally test using ~3 seeds in conjunction with 2 hits of pretty good LSD.

69ron said:
100 micrograms of hyoscyamine is actually REALLY NICE with LSD. It easily makes it about twice as strong. It also goes really well with mescaline and LSA, also making them about twice as strong. It's a fantastic combination. It makes it stronger, more visual, more euphoric, and cuts down on the body load (SWIM usually gets a little body load from pure LSD).
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69ron, to effectively dose 100 micrograms of hyoscyamine, how many seeds would you recommend SWIM injest? He reckons (based on the percentages) that 3 would be more than enough... also, when is the best time to injest? SWIM figured around the same time he takes his LSD, but would like clarification (if you happen to have any!) :p

Thank you.
 
The seeds typically contain about 0.3% alkaloids (80% being hyoscyamine), but can contain up to 0.7%. 1 average seed is usually about 8 mg. At 0.3% alkaloids, 1 average 8 mg seed would contain about 24 micrograms of alkaloids. So with average sized average potency seeds, 4 would be about 96 micrograms. But some seeds are as heavy as 10 mg, and some contain up to 0.7% alkaloids, so a super potent super large 10 mg seed would contain about 70 micrograms each. So 2 would be about 140 micrograms and 3 would be 210.

Doses of 400-800 micrograms of hyoscyamine (as well as scopolamine) are common doses that doctors prescribe for various conditions. So with super potent super large 10 mg seeds, 11 seeds would contain 770 micrograms and be within this common safe dosage range. 1500 micrograms of hyoscyamine is considered the maximum known safe limit. 21 super large super potent seeds would contain up to 1470 micrograms of alkaloids.

I’d personally not ever go over 10 seeds. 3 seeds are usually just enough for potentiation. It doesn’t take much at all. Try first taking the seeds on their own to judge your sensitivity to the seeds. The dose you’re looking for is the smallest dose needed to feel an unusual feeling in the stomach about 10 minutes into it, very slight stimulation for about 3 hours, and very slight euphoria for about 3 hours. The dose used should not be enough to cause dryness in the mouth, or any other higher dose symptoms (blurred vision, dilated pupils, dry hands, urine retention, etc.).

Take it at the same time as the other psychedelic, repeat the dose after 3 hours if you like. Chew the seeds thoroughly and then swallow them.

SWIM weighs his seeds and uses about 20-25 mg of seeds. That’s usually 3 seeds, sometimes 4, sometimes 2. Doing it by weight rather than seed count gives a more consistent effect.
 
This is exactly what SWIM was looking for... thank you once again. He's heeding your advice of taking 3 d. stramonium seeds by themselves first, then trying them with the LSD. He'll make sure to report his findings.
 
I'm curious... would a few seeds also counteract mild nausea from mushrooms? He doesn't ever purge from mushrooms, but certainly gets discomfort around the hour mark. What say you [all]? SWIM is very interested in all the possible uses of these seeds in low doses.
 
Yes they will block the nausea from mushrooms, cactus/mescaline, HBWR/morning glories/LSA/etc., oral bufotenine, and even ayahuasca somewhat (but apparently not the actual purge, according to some people).

All of those psychedelics (except ayahuasca because of the caapi in it) produce nausea by the same mechanism in the body. Ayahuasca contains caapi which has harmala alkaloids. I'm not sure if Datura stromonium is effective at blocking the nausea caused by harmala alkaloids because their nausea is more related to motion sickness, so I believe Datura inoxia would work better at blocking the nausea caused by harmala alkaloids because Datura inoxia seeds contain nearly pure scopolamine rather than hyoscyamine.

Scopolamine is not good at blocking the nausea from psychedelics, but hyoscyamine is. However, scopolamine is good at blocking nausea caused by motion sickness, while hyoscyamine is not. Because harmala alkaloid nausea is very similar to motion sickness nausea and even includes dizziness, I believe the scopolamine in Datura inoxia would be your best bet at blocking the nausea from Ayahuasca.
 
Read in another thread that MAOIs may potentiate the effect of datura. Anyone know anything about this? How much would it be potentiated? And what about datura stramonium potentiating the MAOI like it does psychedelics?
 
Dagger said:
Read in another thread that MAOIs may potentiate the effect of datura. Anyone know anything about this? How much would it be potentiated? And what about datura stramonium potentiating the MAOI like it does psychedelics?
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its all a synergistic symphony, bro:twisted:
 
I am reading up on scientific litterature on the Daturas, and I found this crucial point about Datura stramonium I thought I should share:

"The ratio between the various tropane alkaloids varies over the lifetime of an individual plant. For
example, it has been reported that in very young D. stramonium plants scopolamine normally
dominates, but at the stage of flowering the hyoscyamine content increases while the relative
scopolamine content decreases gradually (Demeyer and Dejaegere, 1989)."

In other words, only older Datura stramonium plants will have the desired effects!
 
Evening Glory said:
I am reading up on scientific litterature on the Daturas, and I found this crucial point about Datura stramonium I thought I should share:

"The ratio between the various tropane alkaloids varies over the lifetime of an individual plant. For
example, it has been reported that in very young D. stramonium plants scopolamine normally
dominates, but at the stage of flowering the hyoscyamine content increases while the relative
scopolamine content decreases gradually (Demeyer and Dejaegere, 1989)."

In other words, only older Datura stramonium plants will have the desired effects!
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Keep in mind that this information doesn't relate to the seeds at all. The seeds are always high in hyoscyamine. The rest of the plant varies widely and that’s the reason it’s much better to use the seeds. I'd stay away from anything other than the seeds. The seeds have the most consistent alkaloid mix and potency of the entire plant. SWIM has found most of the seeds have about 4% alkaloids and all the seeds he’s ever had are high in hyoscyamine with very little scopolamine.
 
Sadly I have to disagree completely, and I must say I find it sad that you come with such allegations without any reference. I have found test results indicating roughly a 50:50 ratio of scopolamine and hyoscyamine in young Datura stramonium plants, both for the seeds and the other epigeal parts. In one test, the average ratio was 47.2 % scopolamine and 52.8 % hyoscyamine for green stems, 50.4 % scopolamine and 49.6 % hyoscyamine for purple stems, 51.3 % scopolamine and 48.7 % hyoscyamine for seeds. In other words, this test shows young plants that on avegare actually had a slightly higher scopolamine content in the seeds than the stems!

There seems to be no significant difference in the ratio of alkaloids in the epigeal parts (seeds, flowers, stems, leaves) of Datura stramonium, but there are a significant difference when compared to the roots. This is not surprising, as it is in the roots the biosynthesis takes place. It is, however, correct that the seeds is the part with the least variation in total alkaloid content.

The data are attached, and there you can find all the numbers (taken from different authors from different countries) I am talking about. At the end of the article, you can see several other test results from several other Datura stramonium plants. In these tests, the scopolamine content in Datura stramonium seeds varies from < 1 % to 62.3 %.

Therefore, only older plants will have the desired effects! Young plants will still have some effect, but not nearly as good as you want. This is also the case for other Daturas, every member of the family has higher scopolamine content when young. As an example, Datura ferox has up to 99 % scopolamine as young plants, but 75 % is typical for older plants.

I repeat myself again - use only older plants! Seeds from young plants typically have from 40 to 60 % scopolamine! This decreases over age, until reaching < 1 % to 10 % scopolamine.
 

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Evening Glory said:
I repeat myself again - use only older plants! Seeds from young plants typically have from 40 to 60 % scopolamine!
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SWIM never had such seeds from D. stramonium that were high in scopolamine. Never. Scopolamine has a very distinct effect and you'd feel it if it contain that much in the seeds.

SWIM has been using D. stramonium seeds for over 20 years. He’s speaking from experience, not just some report somewhere.
 
This is not "just some report from somewhere", this is a study from European Food Safety Authority published in 2008. A study that collects around 20 analysis of several Datura stramonium plants from several different authors from several different countries, ranging in publishing date from 1979 to 2006 - that all points to the same conclusion. You can read it for yourself, I attached it in my previous post.

Young Datura stramonium plants have roughly a 50:50 ratio of scopolamine and hyoscyamine, even in the seeds, that is a fact. A fact you can not simply dismiss with personal experience. You have perhaps only been using seeds from old plants? It is not likely that seeds from young plants are commonly available.
 
Evening Glory said:
This is not "just some report from somewhere", this is a study from European Food Safety Authority published in 2008. A study that collects around 20 analysis of several Datura stramonium plants from several different authors from several different countries, ranging in publishing date from 1979 to 2006 - that all points to the same conclusion. You can read it for yourself, I attached it in my previous post. Young Datura stramonium plants have roughly a 50:50 ratio of scopolamine and hyoscyamine, even in the seeds, that is a fact. A fact you can not simply dismiss with personal experience. You have perhaps only been using seeds from old plants? It is not likely that seeds from young plants are commonly available.
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I've read that report and hundreds of other reports showing different numbers.

Don’t put so much faith in one report.

Do more research and you'll have a very different view of that report.
 
Well, until you can prove it with something different than personal experience, my conclusion stands. It is also important to note that this is not just one report, it is a collection of around 20 reports. What I write here is not to sound harsh or anything, but it is important that when we deal with scientific subjects, we stay scientific. There is nothing scientific with personal experience and allegations that you have read something else, when it is not backed up with actual numbers.
 
You can't stand that I don't agree. That’s fine.

I've read hundreds of reports from different places and none of them have the same results. The reason you don’t believe me is because you didn’t do as much research as I have. It highly depends on the location and strain of the plants tested. There are some strains that might be higher in scopolamine than others, but in general the seeds are higher in hyoscyamine than scopolamine, and most reports show that, and so does SWIM's personal experience with using the seeds for a very long time.

Sure you might find some odd variety somewhere that goes beyond the norm and shows up in one of those tests, that means very little to me. It’s like the Cebil seeds containing 12.5% bufotenine. Sure that exists, but most people get Cebil with 1-2% bufotenine. That 12.5% was a freak. SWIM has never come across seeds high in scopolamine from Datura stramonium. Never.

SWIM knows the effects of scopolamine very well now, in over 20 years of using these seeds SWIM has not once had seeds high in scopolamine. But SWIM doesn’t use seeds that were taken out of the pods before they are ready. No one does. If that test is using seeds that aren’t ready then it would mean nothing at all to SWIM. No one uses seeds that are not ready. I never heard of any place selling such seeds.
 
White seeds are sometimes high in scopolamine (SWIM never had one that was though), but no one uses white Datura stramonium seeds. It's almost impossible to buy white seeds. When the seeds are black they are ready for sale. It’s very rare to see a white seed on the market. In the many years SWIM has used Datura stramonium seeds, 99% of them have been black seeds. This is what you get when you buy the seeds. People don't sale the white seeds because the black seeds are larger and worth more money.

The black seeds, even immature black seeds, which are basically the only seeds you can buy are never high in scopolamine, unless you have a freak of nature.
 
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