De-oxidize?

[pmm]

My last extraction of 200 g MHRB I got from a private vendor off ebay yielded over 1,5 % (3,1 g) of spice so far, which made me happy for a couple of days, until I sampled it - most of it seems to be oxide - I got three distinct colours out of it, a bright yellow that turned orange after a day, a milder yellow that stayed that way and some pure white. The orange and the yellow stuff are mainly giving a nice, warm body buzz, which is in itself very pleasant, the yellow is a bit more visual than the orange, but definitely not like the "real" thing. It's more like watching the experience from the outside than being in it.

Is there a way to de-oxidize (if that is even a word)? Would recrystallisation change anything?

 

[West-en]

Yes, there are two ways to go here:

1. Recrystallization - purification of DMT
Simply recrystallize your DMT/DMT N-Oxide mix by dissolving it in a minimum amount of heptane (or naphtha), and filter out the stuff that won't dissolve (N-Oxide + impurities). Then put it in the freezer and after a few hours you collect your more pure crystals. Note though that this is an easy method, but it will only remove the N-Oxide, not convert it back into freebase DMT. You will experience a loss of yield.

2. Conversion - N-Oxide to non-oxide
First prepare a pH 3 HCl water solution, about 50ml[water]/1g[DMT/N-Oxide] is a reasonable amount. There's no great harm in using to much, but you want it small. Remember though that hydrochloric acid is very powerful, and you need VERY small amounts (dilute if concentrated). Remember to test with pH-papers! HCl can be substituted by vinegar and many other acids.

Dissolve your DMT/N-Oxide mix - add it and stir until it's all gone. The N-Oxide is water soluble and the DMT will be salted by the acidic environment (DMT HCl if HCl was used) which also is water soluble. Readjust pH if needed. Then add an excess of zinc powder to the solution. 1mg[zinc]/1mg[N-Oxide] is minimum, so multiply that by 2-3 if you want to be safe.

Let this sit for 2-3hours, and stir well on some occasions. Then raise the pH to about 10 (or higher) with any base (I use sodium carbonate), and watch a beautiful precipitation cloud of DMT appear. I recommend diluting the base in minimum solution before you add it, you don't want to ruin the sight of DMT with any powder! Pull 2-3 times with 100ml[naphtha]/1g[DMT/N-Oxide] and finally evaporate to retrieve your DMT.

 

[pmm]

Great, cheers. The only acid I have at the moment is citric and tartaric acid, but I suppose that would work as well? Well, if it doesn't I will have to order zinc powder anyway (only have iron powder at the mo) and some PH-paper, so I can get HCL too, won't get my digital PH-meter before my birthday (that wish actually raised a few eyebrows, hehe).

Interestingly, the N-Oxide precipitated out first, I was putting the Shellsol T back into the fridge (harvested after 24 hours before) and what I got after 48 hours now was pure white - which brought my total up to 3,35 g now.

However, I won't convert all of the N-Oxide back, it is quite pleasant too, and my girlfriend might even enjoy that, the white is definitely nothing for her...

 

[pmm]

Now I'm confused. I just had 50 mg of the pure white, and it was barely active, it actually felt a lot like the other colours, very calm, very weak. Could it be N-Oxide despite the colour?

 

[West-en]

I haven't tried citric acid myself (or heard about it), but it may work. If you want be sure I recommend getting some acetic acid or HCl, it should not be that hard to get. Yeah, I know what you mean. I like getting pure white and then oxidizing small batches of this to a prefered yellow hue by leaving it under a fan or something for a while. That way I get control over the yellowness, and it's not an accident!

Now I'm confused. I just had 50 mg of the pure white, and it was barely active, it actually felt a lot like the other colours, very calm, very weak. Could it be N-Oxide despite the colour?

No. N-Oxide is a deep red liquid in room temperature, and when it is present in DMT in small amounts it tends to (dis)colour the crystals to yellow-orange. I see two plausible possibilities. Either you vaporized it badly (or in any other way got a low amount of those 50mg in the bloodstream). Or, there was some other chemical than DMT in there, some impurity with a white colour (not N-Oxide).

 

[pmm]

No. N-Oxide is a deep red liquid in room temperature, and when it is present in DMT in small amounts it tends to (dis)colour the crystals to yellow-orange. I see two plausible possibilities. Either you vaporized it badly (or in any other way got a low amount of those 50mg in the bloodstream). Or, there was some other chemical than DMT in there, some impurity with a white colour (not N-Oxide).

Well, I tried it twice yesterday - exactly like I always smoke (sandwiched between layers of ash and parsley) which worked like a charm with the previous batch of MHRB I had. I think the chap on ebay might have re-sold me the extremely weak stuff from Amazon Healing I read about here. Now I am wondering whether it is worth the effort of converting it, if the end result would be the white I've got now.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Now I am wondering whether it is worth the effort of converting it, if the end result would be the white I've got now

If the white is "worse" in effect than the yellow-tinged spice, it is possible that your spice falls into one of the categories Entropymancer discusses in his incredible article "Jungle Spice" - Mystery Alkaloids of Mimosa Root Bark he states:

"many people doing otherwise normal extractions report obtaining a yellow-colored product when the naphtha pulls are done heated. These yellow crystals are sometimes reported to be qualitatively better in terms of effects than pure DMT"

Here's the full article: "Jungle Spice" - Mystery Alkaloids of Mimosa Root Bark - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Jorkest]

how much are you smoking?

 

[pmm]

how much are you smoking?

Sorry for not answering sooner, just back from a short holiday. Do you mean in terms of frequency? Well, shortly before my holiday once or twice daily - but I still have like half a gram of my previous batch and had a clean breakthrough with 50 mg, so it can't be that I am getting used to it or something. I will probably try another hit of the white I pulled last this evening.

 

[pmm]

Now I am wondering whether it is worth the effort of converting it, if the end result would be the white I've got now

If the white is "worse" in effect than the yellow-tinged spice, it is possible that your spice falls into one of the categories Entropymancer discusses in his incredible article "Jungle Spice" - Mystery Alkaloids of Mimosa Root Bark he states:

"many people doing otherwise normal extractions report obtaining a yellow-colored product when the naphtha pulls are done heated. These yellow crystals are sometimes reported to be qualitatively better in terms of effects than pure DMT"

Here's the full article: "Jungle Spice" - Mystery Alkaloids of Mimosa Root Bark - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

The orange and yellow conforms to what I have read about N-Oxide, pleasant warm body-high, mild visuals, definitely less much less intense than "real" spice - the white was almost exactly the same, except for the lack of these short heat-waves you get with the N-Oxide - with 52 mg I had about the effect I guess I would have from a 15 mg dose from my previous batch.

And thanks for the link, I had read that one already before trying anything with my colourful batch - as I had seen quite different reports about the supposed strength, I didn't want to risk an unpleasant first trip by overdosing - so I started with 10 mg, then 25, 50, and in the end 85 mg of the orange (well, at least I attempted it, proved to be too hard on the lungs, so there was still some leftover in my bong afterwards).

Will continue my "experiments" this week and report back.

Ah, and I almost forgot - this time I didn't heat the Shellsol - I used a slightly modified version of the Noman-Tec (with a sodium carbonate wash).