Does anybody know anything about designer cannabinoïds or ways to isolate delta-9-THC? Delta-9-THC appears to be responsible for the psychedelic effects of cannabis, much more then pure THC. i figure that if you would have pure delta-9-THC or a similar compound, that this would be something many would be willing to give qualifications such as 'the bomb'.
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delta-9-THC, or other cannabinoïds.
- Thread starter polytrip
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im really eager to try cp55940
has anyone here sampled this stuff?
has anyone here sampled this stuff?
The THC you hear about is delta-9 THC. Delta-9 THC is formed from tetrahydrocannabinolic acid upon heating or just simple degradation. Isolating THC in pure form requires skills in chromatography. Its not to hard to get >90% pure THC with column chromatography however. Getting above 95% is not practical for the average person. I don't really see the point in purifying it though just make hash oil its already mostly THC plus some minor cannabinoids and terpenoids.
Any cannabinoid whether synthetic plant or endogenous that binds and activates the cannabinoid receptor 1 (there are 2) is probably psychoactive. THC is the major and most potent cannabinoid found in cannabis. There are other cannabinoids in cannabis some are not psychoactive some might be but no one really knows for all of them (there are about 70 that have been found). Many that have been tests have only weak binding to CB1 and are not really significant.
CP55940 is psychoactive but very potent so be careful. Its also unstable at room temperature and with exposure to air and light so it may make accurate dosing difficult. I heard you can get high from 250 ug to about 1 mg is enough. I also heard it lasts about 24 hours which personally SWIM would not find that enjoyable.
Any cannabinoid whether synthetic plant or endogenous that binds and activates the cannabinoid receptor 1 (there are 2) is probably psychoactive. THC is the major and most potent cannabinoid found in cannabis. There are other cannabinoids in cannabis some are not psychoactive some might be but no one really knows for all of them (there are about 70 that have been found). Many that have been tests have only weak binding to CB1 and are not really significant.
CP55940 is psychoactive but very potent so be careful. Its also unstable at room temperature and with exposure to air and light so it may make accurate dosing difficult. I heard you can get high from 250 ug to about 1 mg is enough. I also heard it lasts about 24 hours which personally SWIM would not find that enjoyable.
The JWH compounds (JWH-018, JWH-071, ...) are very nice. The high is very clean and clear. It lasts about an hour with no tired burnt out after effects (unless a high dose is taken). JWH-071 is selective for CB1 over CB2. The effects b/w 071 and 018 are different. 018 is stronger and more stoned like feeling whereas 071 is much milder cleaner medical high. SWIM has also tried a 6 carbon chain on the indole nitrogen it is milder than both but still has nice effects and lasts 30 minutes when smoked good for medicine.
There are a variety of synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonists and many more in development.
Also just like diff strains of weed have different effects due to the diff components mixing these compounds results in an synergistic effect greater than a simple combination effect. This was discovered by accident.
There are a variety of synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonists and many more in development.
Also just like diff strains of weed have different effects due to the diff components mixing these compounds results in an synergistic effect greater than a simple combination effect. This was discovered by accident.
As burnt said pure THC could be aeasily isolated via column chromatography also possibly vacuum distillation. Although unless one is interested in analysis or experimentation this is not very feasible. A butane extraction of leaf/flower gives a product which is pretty damn near pure THC (goopey green hash oil). However as stated the other cannabinoids in the mixture augment the effects of the THC. This is why diff types of weeds (strains) give different types of highs. Thus in some cases the mixtures maybe stronger than the pure THC.
JWH-073 is extremely pleasant at 2-4mgs. Similar to very high grade cannabis...not stoney, but more of a body and head high...no lack of motivation, no couch-lock. Lasts around 1-2 hours with no affer effects.
JWH-018 is extremely potent at .5-2mgs. Have had anxiety attacks on anything over 1mg. Not as pleasant but lasts longer than 073 (4hrs or so for me).
Haven't tried any of the CP chems. I've heard they are not as nice as some of the JWH series.
JWH-018 is extremely potent at .5-2mgs. Have had anxiety attacks on anything over 1mg. Not as pleasant but lasts longer than 073 (4hrs or so for me).
Haven't tried any of the CP chems. I've heard they are not as nice as some of the JWH series.
I already had the suspicion that canabinoïds could be that potent.burnt said:
If you eat cannabis, the body converts THC into the delta-9 compound. My experience with eating cannabis is that, if taken in the right amounts, it can easily match established psychedelics like LSD...and this is no exageration.
So if you would have a pure or almost pure cannabinoïd that is purely psychedelic, this would mean that you would have an even much more powerfull experience then with oral cannabis because:A-you would have only the psychedelic cannabinoïds, so you could take a higher dose. a dose of purely psychedelic cannabinoïds that would, if mixed with the 'stoner' cannabinoïds as they naturally occur toghether, make you pass-out or fall asleep. B-the body doesn't have to convert it into the psychedelic compound anymore, and like psilocin is much more potent then psilocybin, you could expect the pure compound for this reason to be more powerfull.
Theoretically there could be cannabinoïds that as a psychedelic could even rival substances like DMT. This may sound like cursing at this site, but i have had experiences with oral cannabis, where it had the psychological impact comparable to that of 5-MeO-DMT or a high dose of LSD and just slightly less visual effects then an average dose of LSD. So that's why i speculate that much more could be possible.
does anybody know a good vendor for these synthetics? And are they reasonably priced?
I agree with acolon_5 the JWH compounds are a nice clean body high similar to sativa stains. They definitely have medical applicability as they are mild and leave you in control and do not burn you out (unless a large dose is taken).
JWH-018 can be strong if 6 or more mg are taken but it is still an enjoyable high. I have felt almost tripping at higher doses smoked.
JWH-073 is much mellower, and solely a clean short acting body high.
Mixing these compounds results in strong effects that are not simply additive (short of like the cannabinoids in cannabis).
THC is the delta 9 THC, which refers to the location of the double bond in the terpene half of the structure . In the plant most THC is in the form of a carboxylic acid. Heat converts this acid in the delta 9 THC. This is why if cooking with cannabis one should make sure to apply heat, just eating a bud will not be as potent as heating it first. Also smoking converts it into THC as well. Cannabinoids at high doses can cause effects that could be called hallucinogenic although they are distinctive from those of classical hallucinogens but one could def trip of of these compounds.
JWH-018 can be strong if 6 or more mg are taken but it is still an enjoyable high. I have felt almost tripping at higher doses smoked.
JWH-073 is much mellower, and solely a clean short acting body high.
Mixing these compounds results in strong effects that are not simply additive (short of like the cannabinoids in cannabis).
THC is the delta 9 THC, which refers to the location of the double bond in the terpene half of the structure . In the plant most THC is in the form of a carboxylic acid. Heat converts this acid in the delta 9 THC. This is why if cooking with cannabis one should make sure to apply heat, just eating a bud will not be as potent as heating it first. Also smoking converts it into THC as well. Cannabinoids at high doses can cause effects that could be called hallucinogenic although they are distinctive from those of classical hallucinogens but one could def trip of of these compounds.
from my own experience would say that a strong oral-cannabis trip is only in one field inferior to most of the traditional psychedelics; visually.
In some other fields it is superiour to LSD though. especially in it's body-high effects. It's aural effects are different, but equal to those of LSD and mentally it can be superiour to LSD two. It has a similar effect as LSD on the perception of time.
The only reason why nobody takes cannabis as a psychedelic is because A-tolerance to it's psychedelic effects is build up quickly and lasts for months.
B-many people get paranoïa and anxiety at psychedelic doses.
I find it one of the most pleasant psychedelics, though. Only mushrooms, DMT and ayahuasca are realy superiour in comparisson. But it can easily compete with LSD.
In some other fields it is superiour to LSD though. especially in it's body-high effects. It's aural effects are different, but equal to those of LSD and mentally it can be superiour to LSD two. It has a similar effect as LSD on the perception of time.
The only reason why nobody takes cannabis as a psychedelic is because A-tolerance to it's psychedelic effects is build up quickly and lasts for months.
B-many people get paranoïa and anxiety at psychedelic doses.
I find it one of the most pleasant psychedelics, though. Only mushrooms, DMT and ayahuasca are realy superiour in comparisson. But it can easily compete with LSD.
Ive read that the curing process also decarboxylates the thc into delta 9 (which is one of the arguments for a propper curing).. I wonder how much in percentage of the thc is transformed by the curing.. I also wonder if heating is very efficient into decarboxylating it, or if one should do both the curing and the heating for it to work properly
btw polytrip, when you ingest it, apparently its turned into 11-hydroxy-thc, which is even more potent than thc
btw polytrip, when you ingest it, apparently its turned into 11-hydroxy-thc, which is even more potent than thc
polytrip said:
endlessness said:
curing makes a big diff..I had a grower friend who used to take the fan leaves from his kush plant and freeze them just after they were clipped, becasue apparently the cold would stress the leaves into converting some more of the extra cannabinoids into THC..than he would cure them just as he would the flowers..in jars very slowly opening once a day.
I was given a bunch of this leaf, and didnt think much of it until I was out of flowers for a while, so I took 2 days off and then rolled up the leaves into a joint..and they worked!! much better than I had thought! smoked them all week.. the high was different, more stony than high, not as psychedelic as bid but I was still satisfied and it gave a good body feeling with some introspection..of course when I hit the floweres again I was completely blown away..
Espiridion
--who.??..ME??--
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This is wonderful news. The ever-expanding array of synthetic analogues simply blows my mind. Just as there is ongoing growth in the cannibinoid sector, also is there in the salvia forefront. Many new compounds are being explored. There is a thread here somewhere.
God bless Shulgin and the scientific method.<sigh>
As for oral MJ. Only once, on Halloween, did I attemp this. I was married to a non-approver so the joint I was given(hadnt smoked in two years at the time) was going to waste. So I ate it. The NEXT MORNING I WOKE UP ON JUPITER!!! No effects before bedtime, but come sunrise and I was sky high. Strangest thing. Is that normal? Does it take that long to take effect or does it simply last that much longer?
Peace,
J
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This is wonderful news. The ever-expanding array of synthetic analogues simply blows my mind. Just as there is ongoing growth in the cannibinoid sector, also is there in the salvia forefront. Many new compounds are being explored. There is a thread here somewhere.
God bless Shulgin and the scientific method.<sigh>
As for oral MJ. Only once, on Halloween, did I attemp this. I was married to a non-approver so the joint I was given(hadnt smoked in two years at the time) was going to waste. So I ate it. The NEXT MORNING I WOKE UP ON JUPITER!!! No effects before bedtime, but come sunrise and I was sky high. Strangest thing. Is that normal? Does it take that long to take effect or does it simply last that much longer?
Peace,
J
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fascinating reports about the JWH series. Nice to hear they have a nice buzz.
SWIMs imaginary friend has some CP55940 but is skeptical to take it. Does anyone know the stability of this compound in ethanol? Or have experience.
This is something I have been wondering. We know the binding activity at CB1 and CB2 receptors for many cannabinoids synthetic endogenous and in plant. But what makes the different buzzes?
I think that in marijuana CB1 agonism has very little to add to the buzz from other cannabinoids. Unless there are high levels like cannabinol or cannabidiol both can be found at higher levels. also THCV can be higher. Many of them have strange binding kinetics.
Actually thats another fascinating part of the cannabinoid receptors many compounds that act on them have biphasic effects depending on the cell type they are found and expression levels. Its really a fascinating receptor system.
But there are a lot of other compounds that SWIM thinks are playing a role like the essential oil. Sometimes SWIM notices that he prefers cannabis with a certain smell. Essential oils effect the brain and blood circulation metabolism etc. They can also interact directly with various receptors in the CNS and enzymes involved in neurotransmitter metabolism.
For example acetylcholine esterase inhibitors (which are good for memory in general) are found in cannabis essential oil. One way at THC at higher doses causes memory problems is that it causes decrease in acetylcholine release in the hippocampus. So perhaps cannabis with higher levels of compounds that inhibit acetylcholine esterase from breaking down acetylcholine the memory damage and cloudy effects of THC could be decreased??
This could explain why some types of weed that have a distinct smell that people call "chronic". That nice clear heady type of weed that makes you think clear but your still high. Anyone know what I mean?
Who knows I find it fascinating that so many effects can come from such similar compounds that only seem to be hitting a relativily small number of receptors. Although its become obvious that there are other cannabinoid like receptors in the body.
SWIMs imaginary friend has some CP55940 but is skeptical to take it. Does anyone know the stability of this compound in ethanol? Or have experience.
This is something I have been wondering. We know the binding activity at CB1 and CB2 receptors for many cannabinoids synthetic endogenous and in plant. But what makes the different buzzes?
I think that in marijuana CB1 agonism has very little to add to the buzz from other cannabinoids. Unless there are high levels like cannabinol or cannabidiol both can be found at higher levels. also THCV can be higher. Many of them have strange binding kinetics.
Actually thats another fascinating part of the cannabinoid receptors many compounds that act on them have biphasic effects depending on the cell type they are found and expression levels. Its really a fascinating receptor system.
But there are a lot of other compounds that SWIM thinks are playing a role like the essential oil. Sometimes SWIM notices that he prefers cannabis with a certain smell. Essential oils effect the brain and blood circulation metabolism etc. They can also interact directly with various receptors in the CNS and enzymes involved in neurotransmitter metabolism.
For example acetylcholine esterase inhibitors (which are good for memory in general) are found in cannabis essential oil. One way at THC at higher doses causes memory problems is that it causes decrease in acetylcholine release in the hippocampus. So perhaps cannabis with higher levels of compounds that inhibit acetylcholine esterase from breaking down acetylcholine the memory damage and cloudy effects of THC could be decreased??
This could explain why some types of weed that have a distinct smell that people call "chronic". That nice clear heady type of weed that makes you think clear but your still high. Anyone know what I mean?
Who knows I find it fascinating that so many effects can come from such similar compounds that only seem to be hitting a relativily small number of receptors. Although its become obvious that there are other cannabinoid like receptors in the body.
Agonist directed trafficking could very well play a role as CB receptors are GPCRs. This is found with other GPCRs including the hallucinogens at 5-HT2a and may explain their different effects as well. Also unknown receptor sites could explain the effects as well (There are believed to be many CB subtypes). Different pharmacokinetic properties may also lead to different types of highs.
Sativa is the type of clean clear high without the strange thoughts that indica induce. SWIM enjoys sativa much more. Sativa has higher levels of CBD (THC precursor) whereas indica has higher levels of CBN (THC is the precursor of CBN). These different profiles def have consistently diff effects.
It is interesting too how you can become tolerant to the effects of one strain of cannabis but than another will get you blazed like you had no tolerance. Of course this is to an extent if you use copious amounts this is less likely to be noticeable.
I have found that mixing the JWH compounds gives rise to novel effects that are not simply additive in nature. Thus there does seem to be some interactions going on. The cannabinoid system is a complex system. While we know the most about CB1 and CB2 there are a handful of other CB receptors not as well characterized. These very well play a role in the subjective effects of different cannabis preparations.
Sativa is the type of clean clear high without the strange thoughts that indica induce. SWIM enjoys sativa much more. Sativa has higher levels of CBD (THC precursor) whereas indica has higher levels of CBN (THC is the precursor of CBN). These different profiles def have consistently diff effects.
It is interesting too how you can become tolerant to the effects of one strain of cannabis but than another will get you blazed like you had no tolerance. Of course this is to an extent if you use copious amounts this is less likely to be noticeable.
I have found that mixing the JWH compounds gives rise to novel effects that are not simply additive in nature. Thus there does seem to be some interactions going on. The cannabinoid system is a complex system. While we know the most about CB1 and CB2 there are a handful of other CB receptors not as well characterized. These very well play a role in the subjective effects of different cannabis preparations.
Yea I am skeptical that sativa contains amounts of CBD significant enough to have any effect. If you read the literature with tests done on pure compounds the ratio of CBD to THC to be significant was always at least 1:1 or more CBD compared to THC. Most cannabis drug type strains have <1% CBD. This again though is drug type strains. Strains not used as drugs like hemp etc have more CBD compared to THC. Classic sativa varieties were not used so much to get people high and where more common with hemp but all that has changed now with cross breeding and selecting for high THC production.
CBN can be formed in any kind of cannabis as long as its aged or degraded long enough.
Yea its tough to tease this receptor system apart I love it.
I believe that there are cannabinoids as well, that as a main effect regulate the sensitivity of CB-receptors, to the main cannabinoids.
There would, if i'm correct, be as well compounds that make you more, as compounds that make you less sensitive to THC and such.
This also would explain why some strains of cannabis with high THC content are not as favored by smokers as their THC content would suggest.
There would, if i'm correct, be as well compounds that make you more, as compounds that make you less sensitive to THC and such.
This also would explain why some strains of cannabis with high THC content are not as favored by smokers as their THC content would suggest.
If by effect sensitivity to CB receptor you mean allosterically modulate (sorry technical term) them yes I think thats possible. Binding studies have been done on other plant cannabinoids most of them are weak or have other effects (like antagonistic or reverse agonist more technical terms sorry).
Other cannabinoids could also alter the metabolism of THC. Thats been demonstrated in various studies but mainly on pure compounds.
Yes concerning high THC strains. For me personally its unpleasant. I don't like feeling paranoid when I smoke and super high THC strains do that. I prefer nice stinky smelly stuff. Often its hard to tell how much THC is in unless someone tests or you know your strain well but yea lots of the strains advertized as high THC just make me a wreak. But strains I've smoked that have a nice taste and were grown nice give me that nice clear buzz that I prefer.
Who knows its a complex mixture and there is considerable controversy even in the literature and among researchers about how it all works. But thats what makes it fun.
Other cannabinoids could also alter the metabolism of THC. Thats been demonstrated in various studies but mainly on pure compounds.
Yes concerning high THC strains. For me personally its unpleasant. I don't like feeling paranoid when I smoke and super high THC strains do that. I prefer nice stinky smelly stuff. Often its hard to tell how much THC is in unless someone tests or you know your strain well but yea lots of the strains advertized as high THC just make me a wreak. But strains I've smoked that have a nice taste and were grown nice give me that nice clear buzz that I prefer.
Who knows its a complex mixture and there is considerable controversy even in the literature and among researchers about how it all works. But thats what makes it fun.