denaturated (!) Ethanol - safe for making Changa ?

[Brennendes Wasser]

Hello!

Well denaturated Alkohol is much cheaper than the pure Ethanol.

Of course everything which is connected to it orally it a true pain and noone would ever like to dring the denaturated one.

So there was the idea of using the Ethanol to create Changa.


Problem:

When the Ethanol is evaporating, then I'm pretty sure that the denaturation-stuff is left behind and not evaping ...

Well it's not bad as you don't get the taste while smoking (I assume), BUT how about it being dangerous to your health when smoked?

I mean so many organic substances combusted are unhealthy to cancerogenous ...

Therefore I'm not sure whether using the denaturated one, as it may be harmful crap which is added to my herbs.


Any Ideas?


Yeah - probably you want to tell me just using Acetone - but then if you use Acetone, how do you apply your Harmalas? As far as I tested, they're not dissolving in Acetone and therefore you need at least at this step the Ethanol.

So if you have

a) an opinion on the health issue regarding denaturated alcohol

or

b) an alternative solvent for the Harmalas (and Acetone did not work at all)

you can really help me ! : D

THXX

 

[Mindlusion]

if it's denatured with bitrex, it will not evaporate. While the amount is pretty small, you don't want to be smoking or vaporizing that stuff. Some are also denatured with camphor, which you also wouldn't want.

 

[Espurrr]

do NOT use non-food safe alcohol (ethanol) to make changa, NOT
you can use IPA , but just look for high purity ethyl ethanol, it should be available everywhere (im iranian, drinking alcohol is illegal in my country and yet pure ethanol is found in chem stores / drug stores / medical equipment stores )

no hurry in making changa, seek and you shall find what u need !

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Yep I still had a little of the real one, just used it but was wondering if I can use my non-food-safe Alc for further uses.

Well I'll get the food-safe again, but there is now 1 big question:


When I place all my stuff (spice, harmalas, herbs) in a cup and let it evaporate, then there is a big layer of brownish stuff down at the bottom of the jar.

So it's a kind of mixture (?) of the Harmalas and the Spice and this is clearly not sticking to the herbs, but now left at the bottom of the Jar (and parcially at the sides).

This is a not irrelevant problem as

a) I am losing at least some of my Spice and in my opinion its not so less to be not concerned about

b) I don't have the correct ratio anymore, meaning that 100 mg of Mixture will be more (or maybe even much more) Herbs than intended.


How do you solve this problem?
Before I started I already asked if this will be a problem and guys were telling me: Nooo don't worry, it will everything be alright - but now I don't think that it won't matter at all : S

 

[urtica]

Stir your mixture often while it is drying so that anything that settles to the bottom gets worked back into the herbs.

 

[blue.magic]

When I place all my stuff (spice, harmalas, herbs) in a cup and let it evaporate, then there is a big layer of brownish stuff down at the bottom of the jar.

So it's a kind of mixture (?) of the Harmalas and the Spice and this is clearly not sticking to the herbs, but now left at the bottom of the Jar (and parcially at the sides).

This is a not irrelevant problem as

a) I am losing at least some of my Spice and in my opinion its not so less to be not concerned about

b) I don't have the correct ratio anymore, meaning that 100 mg of Mixture will be more (or maybe even much more) Herbs than intended.


How do you solve this problem?

As urtica noted, stir the herbs occassionally, so they resoak.

Once the herbs are dry enough (no solvent dripping to the bottom of the shotglass) I transfer the herbs to a Pyrex dish using a thin spatula.

Then I wash the shotglass with fresh solvent (with a pipette) and pour it over the herbs. Two washes are usually enough to clean the glass. I move the herbs around and soak the solvent in them.

Some spice will still stick to the Pyrex dish so I move the herbs to the side, sprinkle a little solvent and again use the herbs as a mop. I repeat the process two or three times.

Finally the herbs are dry and there is little to none spice on the bottom.

BTW I am using methanol as a solvent as it works better for me, IPA works fine too but I guess you may need to heat it for effective washing.

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Ok well I may try to redissolve the Rest and put it back on the Herbs, but don't I dissolve the Spice back into the new solvent ?

I mean when the Solvent is leaving, the spice is left back. So when I put back more solvent, don't I wash it off again from the Herbs?

Well it is working for you so it must work, but I just can't get around this thought x)




Also another Question:

I don't have non-denaturated Ethanol here now : S How long will I have time until the Spice will be degraded when being left exposed to the air? It's in the fridge, but how much time will I have now? It's the Freebase and not the Salt.

 

[blue.magic]

Ok well I may try to redissolve the Rest and put it back on the Herbs, but don't I dissolve the Spice back into the new solvent ?

I mean when the Solvent is leaving, the spice is left back. So when I put back more solvent, don't I wash it off again from the Herbs?

Don't sprikle the herbs with fresh solvent.

Move the dried herbs away and sprinkle the glass with leftover spice sticked to it. Then use the dry herbs as a sponge to suck it up.

You'll find your own technique soon

I don't have non-denaturated Ethanol here now : S How long will I have time until the Spice will be degraded when being left exposed to the air? It's in the fridge, but how much time will I have now? It's the Freebase and not the Salt.

It depends on ambient temperature, humidity and air exposure. Keep it in dry, cool, dark place, ideally covered.

The herbs do a great job preserving DMT. Don't worry about the lefovers, even the n-oxide is said to be still active. But transfer all the herbs to a container and cure over next few days (open for few hours, then close, repeat several times to liberate traces of solvent).

 

[pitubo]

With a bit of lucky searching, you might have stumbled onto this post that I wrote some time that details a recipe for the preparation of changa. There is some interesting discussion downthread to that post, so be sure to read that as well.

Note that myself, I own a glass distillation kit and I use that to distill and clean up solvents such as naphtha and alcohol before use (and after, for re-use). I also use this gear when making changa, to boil off the alcohol and immediately recondense it in a closed system. This reduces exposure to flammable and poisonous vapors, and conveniently reduces wastage at the same time.

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Okay there is some good information!

So with the sticked spice / Harmalas I will try to scrape them off with other Herbs.

But I have 3 other questions now, also regarding other things:


2.) You say spice evaporates at 300-400°C, but are you sure, because when I checked google it said it is like ~ 160°C. I was already searching for an answer, because I could have used a strong vacuum to clean my stuff but then I thought: man ... 160°C of boiling point at 1 bar is way too low to be sure that the extreme vacuum won't get the spice out, too ...

So I'm quite interested in this number.


3.) also what is your Changa Mix ?

I was doing 1:1:0,3 but I read that a lot of people do 1:1:1 and this is of course much more of the Harmalas ... so I'm just collecting other people's receipes to get an idea.


4.) at last: I used Toluene to get my pulls off. But now I think I may switch to Naphtha. But sadly I have really no idea where to get it. The country where it's all about = Germany. We have a big kind of market for such things, which is called OBI. And I went to OBI and the guys there said: Naphtha? Never heard about it.
So I read that most of the guys use VM&P Naphtha and I checked out Amazon. THIS IS WHAT YOU BUY? Omg 44€ for 1L, this is more like I'd pay for a nice Whiskey:

https://www.amazon.de/Klean-Strip-VM-P-Schaum-Quart/dp/B003DL56C0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1512066527&sr=8-2&keywords=naphtha

that is 50 $ for only 1 Liter. Is this really what I shall buy ?

 

[pitubo]

2.) You say spice evaporates at 300-400°C, but are you sure, because when I checked google it said it is like ~ 160°C. I was already searching for an answer, because I could have used a strong vacuum to clean my stuff but then I thought: man ... 160°C of boiling point at 1 bar is way too low to be sure that the extreme vacuum won't get the spice out, too ...

It is discussed in the thread that I linked above and it even links to another thread where this is elaborated even more. Read that thread and notice the nice nomographs included. Also check the fine dmt-nexus wiki dmt data .

Unfortunately if you enter "dmt boiling point" into the dmt-nexus search function, you get pages and pages of irrelevant posts and even where dmt boiling point is actually mentioned, the wrong temperature is usually stated. Meh.

3.) also what is your Changa Mix ?

Confusing changa guides (how much MAOI ?) - Changa - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
Harmala dosage in Changa - FAQ - All your basic questions and answers - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

4.) at last: I used Toluene to get my pulls off. But now I think I may switch to Naphtha. But sadly I have really no idea where to get it. The country where it's all about = Germany. We have a big kind of market for such things, which is called OBI. And I went to OBI and the guys there said: Naphtha? Never heard about it.
So I read that most of the guys use VM&P Naphtha and I checked out Amazon. THIS IS WHAT YOU BUY? Omg 44€ for 1L, this is more like I'd pay for a nice Whiskey:

https://www.amazon.de/Klean-Strip-VM-P-Schaum-Quart/dp/B003DL56C0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1512066527&sr=8-2&keywords=naphtha

that is 50 $ for only 1 Liter. Is this really what I shall buy ?

No, don't be silly. Do some research. Or just read the forum, it was mentioned only yesterday;
by downwardsfromzero:

p.3:

Naphtha (Erdöl), mit Wasserstoff behandelte leichte (>=50% - <=100%)

Basically, Benzin is another name for naphtha. It's just a volatile aliphatic petroleum hydrocarbon fraction. This one here appears to standardised for pentane content, but with a boiling point below 40°C it would appear to be largely isopentane. That stuff will boil in contact with warm skin so it might not actually be the best thing for pulling from a STB. Heavier hydrocarbons are more efficient.

Get Grillanzunder (if you're in a German-speaking country) for the crude pulls then recrystallise using this low boiling pet. ether (Petroleumbenzin) you're looking at. Or, of course, select a higher boiling Benzin.

and by Ulim:

If you are indeed german you can look around for "Testbenzin" (found at DM for 4€)
Also "leichtbenzin"
Definetly look at the boiling temp though. Anything with boiling over 80c is probably to heavy in the mix.

I have also seen "Terpentinersatz" and "Wundbenzin" mentioned by german speaking members, although the latter one is apparently more expensive than the former, it is likely to be purer.

Personally, if I were german, I'd visit a BAUHAUS and get some "Specialbenzin" . It looks just right for the purpose and probably pretty clean too (always do at least an evap test). Since I am from the netherlands, I buy it as "wasbenzine", sold in most supermarkets here (less than 2 euro/liter).

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Ah actually I was indeed reading your Changa Receipe with this 3:2:1 some time ago, but did not remember the name.

Yes and for the Naphtha: Yeah I was not really serious that you all buy this 50 $ one, but actually I did not know that the *German Naphtha* is NEVER called Naphtha, but had this other names always.

So my basic question is:


I may get some *Petroleum Ether* very easy, which has a boiling point of 40-60°C.

So this is actually none of the high-boiling naphthas, which is good as it doesn't have any crap in it.

BUT!

Now comes my question to this. It was mentioned that you can also use Heptane to pull and even Hexane. But with Heptane and Hexane even more, you need to heat the soup, otherwise it will be very low yield, as the spice is badly soluble in it at RT.

This means that if my Petroleum Ether has a MP of 40-60°C, then it will contain even a lot of Pentane - and this should be even worse for an extraction.

Does this mean that Petroleum Ether is bad for a Extraction and I have to find something with a boiling point of 60 - 80°C - simply not above 80°C ?

Because that would mean that there is much less Pentane and mostly Heptane, which seems to be the best solvent out of those aliphatic solvents.

Is this correct ?


(After I recognised that the word Naphtha does not really exist here in Germany, I also came up with *Wasch-Benzin* and *Wund-Benzin* which you also mentioned. Then I also have to check if they don't boil already at 40-60°C, because they will be too bad for an extraction then?)


THXXX

 

[null24]

Funny, thanks to this forum over the years, I know more about retail sales of German non polar solvents than in my own country. Strange.

Hats off to the guy selling $7 liters of VM&P for $50.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Higher boiling for the extraction - more efficient. Lower boiling for recrystallisation - leaves no residue.

It's even possible to extract with paraffin wax, but you have to do a mini A/B to recover the goodies.


null24 - thanks for the