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Depersonalization, Bhanga Nana, Dark night of the soul

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ledsmoke

Rising Star
Hello everyone,
Been going through a tough period the past 2 1/2 years.
My title refers to something I feel is the same just with different labels based on cultural perceptions.

Basically it's a phase where I feel I've lost myself and that is viewed negatively in my perception since I attach to the mind. It started with a dramatic shift in consciousness. Through the last couple years my awareness has lessened and I'm typically caught in the mind looking for a route out.
Now I've been told the first step is to Accept, Let go, or surrender. I try to intellectualize these things and the mind is looking for a how. Deep down I know it's not a how and it can't be intellectualized but I just don't seem to know exactly what to do.
At first this state was mind blowing everything had lost its solidity and grounding I was floating in a void. Now I feel blank minded, still lost in a void, and without direction.
Most of the time I spend reading the internet looking for answers. Throughout the years I've gotten out and gained basic moment presence and awareness but always fall back.

I've lost being in the present moment and don't exactly know how to jump in.Shocked

Some symptoms:
Anxiety
no self
no emotions
pattern recognition is extremely high
static in sky or on walls etc
feels like a helmet is on my head
Mind running in dark areas.


I can try to focus and some of my symptoms lessen such as the visual snow or I can relax and let everything flow.

This is posted here in hopes of some advice, insight, or ways to help grow some basic awareness.

Meditation these days depersonalizes more and creates anxiety.
What is it to accept this state?
What is it to just be?

How do you let go or surrender?
I know but I don't? The mind can't know since it is a state that knows the mind?
 
I can relate to this a lot, unfortunately. The advice I'll give you and myself is this:

Seek flow states.

Sex.

Snowboarding, skiing, skateboarding, etc.

Music, singing, drumming.

Harmalas induce a good flow state. Iboga does too, with a bit more guidance toward Truth and involvement, rather than a detached, "Whoa this is interesting."

There are thousands more flow states you can get into. I'm sure you can think of some.
 
Look at and/or consider everything you love in your life. Even the things you might be afraid to admit that you enjoy. Then think about how you only have so many years, so many months, so many ticks on a clock on this planet before you lose all of these things, or they lose you.

Grab on to what you love and hold on as tight as you can. All we have in this dark world are the connections we make with each other and with the things we come to love.

Like Rhythm says, find something that gets you into a flow state. I do not want to encourage risky behaviors, but sometimes very intense, stimulating activities can bring out emotion in people (whether it is repressed emotion coming out or developing new emotions).

I have found that depersonalization can arise from both boredom and nihilism with the mindset of "nothing matters, so why should I even try to be or do anything?" While useful in reshaping our lives after beginning down the path, I think this mindset turns into a trap that takes away the very thing that makes us human: the freedom and power to feel emotion and create an identity. What do you think?
 
Been to similar places.. The blank mind thing can be quite scary..

The only way to stop intellectualizing, is to actually start doing something ime. As long as you are trying to fix the problem with the mind, when the mind is sick, its like trying to run away while tied to a pole. Meditation isnt the answer to this in my experience.
The key word here is grounding.

Find a place where you can exercise your physical body.

One thing that has proved to be extremely therapeutic for me is working with the earth, making vegetable beds, chopping wood, build stuff. Try to feel lost and anxious after a hard days work, youll see its not so easy. So maybe you could try to find a farm/place, where you could volunteer in exchange for food/sleep. This seriously has made me realize that one of the most harmful and problem creating things in my life was, spending too much time doing nothing. Working seriously erased lot of suddenly as illusionary recognized problems.

Also if you have to possibility, like Rythm mentioned sex and intimate relationships in general can really get you down to the ground very quickly.

Just try to get away from all the analyzing and intellectualizing your state of mind. This works best ime by using your energy for something physical.
 
@ ram
Its almoat as though the identity got erased and all your old joys and love seem desolate.
I completely agree im bored and at plone point did go through the nigilistic stage and gave up.
I took accept and surrender as giving up and to keep trudging on.
Is not creating an identity still illusory?

@woogy
Distraction helped me a ton in the beginning if i was constantly engaged with no time to let the mind wonder.
Ive been told you need to accept the state before distracting or your just running from it.
Ill give exercising a shot and distraction again.
 
ledsmoke said:
@woogy
Distraction helped me a ton in the beginning if i was constantly engaged with no time to let the mind wonder.
Ive been told you need to accept the state before distracting or your just running from it.
Ill give exercising a shot and distraction again.
Click to expand...

I am not talking about distraction, its more about connecting with natural cycles and loosing yourself in simple tasks(which can be a mindful meditation in itself)
 
ledsmoke said:
Koornut said:
ledsmoke said:
Most of the time I spend reading the internet looking for answers.
Click to expand...

:?:
Click to expand...

Its an obsessive loop i get in to make sure im doing things right or figure out how to accept etc
Click to expand...
I get you man, a roadblock or loop as you put it. I experience something similar with meditation of late, but it's an obsession with doing it 'right' - things like posture, breath etc.
Having only myself to hold accountable for these things is the most difficult obstacle to overcome. It's all well and good with a teacher to "impress" in a class setting. But putting in the work alone and being Comfortable with that loneliness is the next step I think.
 
I've been getting to the point where i drop my crutches always takes me a month after falling back. I believe your right though go into the unknown and accept the solitude.
 
ledsmoke said:
Its almoat as though the identity got erased and all your old joys and love seem desolate.
I completely agree im bored and at plone point did go through the nigilistic stage and gave up.
I took accept and surrender as giving up and to keep trudging on.
Is not creating an identity still illusory?
Click to expand...

Was this shift in consciousness your choice, or did it just happen as the result on some spiritual practice? If it was your choice and you knew the consequences, why did you choose a route that was going to lead to anxiety, and why are you posting about escaping these feelings? If it's a search for authenticity, why is that something that is important to you? Is authenticity and "the real" more important than your immediate happiness and lack of anxiety?

I do not believe in illusions. Whatever is, simply is, whether it is real, fake, authentic, imagined, and so on. The search for happiness and fulfillment is difficult. I have found peace in creating a vision for myself that I am pursuing. Before my vision, I was constantly plagued by feelings of meaninglessness, but I realized that life is about creating your own meaning (if you want) and basking in it.

Like Sartre says, humans are existence before essence, meaning that, unlike objects, we exist before we actually have a purpose (whereas artificial objects are created out of need for them). It is up to us to find our own purpose and we can do that through creating a vision for ourselves. I know that any constructed purpose can feel fake and meaningless, but if you do not believe in illusion, then that itself does not matter.

Saying "nothing matters" applies to itself too - this fact does not matter and therefore you should focus on the things that bring you fulfillment and joy whether they are illusory, fake, or crazy.
 
RAM said:
ledsmoke said:
Its almoat as though the identity got erased and all your old joys and love seem desolate.
I completely agree im bored and at plone point did go through the nigilistic stage and gave up.
I took accept and surrender as giving up and to keep trudging on.
Is not creating an identity still illusory?
Click to expand...

Was this shift in consciousness your choice, or did it just happen as the result on some spiritual practice? If it was your choice and you knew the consequences, why did you choose a route that was going to lead to anxiety, and why are you posting about escaping these feelings? If it's a search for authenticity, why is that something that is important to you? Is authenticity and "the real" more important than your immediate happiness and lack of anxiety?

I do not believe in illusions. Whatever is, simply is, whether it is real, fake, authentic, imagined, and so on. The search for happiness and fulfillment is difficult. I have found peace in creating a vision for myself that I am pursuing. Before my vision, I was constantly plagued by feelings of meaninglessness, but I realized that life is about creating your own meaning (if you want) and basking in it.

Like Sartre says, humans are existence before essence, meaning that, unlike objects, we exist before we actually have a purpose (whereas artificial objects are created out of need for them). It is up to us to find our own purpose and we can do that through creating a vision for ourselves. I know that any constructed purpose can feel fake and meaningless, but if you do not believe in illusion, then that itself does not matter.

Saying "nothing matters" applies to itself too - this fact does not matter and therefore you should focus on the things that bring you fulfillment and joy whether they are illusory, fake, or crazy.
Click to expand...

I woke up one morning walked out onto the farm I was working at, and had a panic attack that shifted me into some state that I'm still in. a state of fear.
I would love immediate happiness. authenticity of self would create everlasting peace no matter the situation.
I had found happiness prior to this new shift in consciousness, I had created an identity. This state wipes the slate so to speak.
 
I am sorry to hear that this has happened to you. We cannot control random events like this, but if you align at all with Ram Dass' ideas, then every moment has a lesson to teach you.

If you seek an authentic identity for yourself, consider what I have said about the lack of illusions in our lives. Consciousness is a powerful thing, and it seems that much if not all of our world exists through conscious experience. Therefore we can use it to construct things for and about ourselves if we so choose.

Try the things that everyone has recommended here and try interacting with more people. Oftentimes I have found that our identities are formed from differences with others, and without exposure to other people, it can be hard to detect such differences.
 
I use no recreational drugs anymore. I was doing a ton of LSD before it happened but since then I tried to see if MDMA would help and cannabis but to no luck on either.
It's been about 2 years since any drugs.
 
its a little difficult to explain this , but what is happening here is shrinking of the consiousness

when this happens a person experiences - that helmet around the head feeling , it feels like being trapped in the head and disconnected from the universe

immediate 3d reality becomes even more pressing , leading to panic attacks and such

one thing that this state lacks is imagination , and imagination is the answer

don't meditate , just let things be as they are , never make an effort to change anything ,

instead use imagination ,

try these excercises :-

1- imagine that you're on a planet in the universe called earth , not in everyday human reality of mundane stupidity , but a place of infinite wonder and delight of being in space and the universe

2- always try to think of what to do next ,

3- daydream / dive into imagination

4- dont meditate , don't concentrate ,

5 - don't let go , instead let it be

6 - realize the 4 states of madness -

1st state - this is a state of total verbalisations where the mind talks to itself , three distinct personalities of the mind emerge in this state called the ego , id , super ego Id, ego and superego - Wikipedia , this is the state of utter stupidity as what is mistaken for three distinct personalities( ego , id , super ego) are just verbalisations

2nd state - this is the state that emerges when the person uses all their strength to fight the experience , using meditation or other techniques , the immediate nowness gains a lot of power and the person becomes trapped in the now , this is the state of panic attacks and such

both the 1st and 2nd state lack imagination all together

3rd state - this happens when a person surrenders and let things be as they are, without thinking of oneself as the ego,id,superego or meditating to make matters worse, one enters the 3rd state here the mind is still sad and unhappy , yet a little bit of imagination leaks through the cracks and provides relief to a mind ,

4th state - ultimately the 3rd state leads to the 4th state , this happens when the mind has been allowed to rest and things are allowed to be as they are , when this state happens everything looks and feels right , joy is felt , imagination flows freely when it must , and the mind feels and is free

the 3rd and 4th states are not states of madness but states of emerging from madness , both states have imagination as an ally , which is weak in the 3rd state but strong in the 4th state , the 3rd state is still not totally free yet the 4th state is , and it is ultimately imagination which leads to a free mind
 
When i allow things to be as they are syptoms increase. Particulary visual didtortions.
Is sound meditation a no go as well?

Also thank you all for your helpful post it is nuch appreciated.

I would say maybe 2nd or third state. My imagination comes and goes depending on my relaxation.
 
sound meditation is definetly a no go , infact any form of meditation , breath , mantra or any other is all a no go situation

also allowing things to be means letting it all be , whether visual distortions happen or not does not matter , neither do verbalizations matter , what matters is - not caring

even in 4th state verbalizations and visual distortions keep coming up , but they exist as background noise and nothing more

and as far as meditation is concerened , meditation with an object is mundane , there is also objectless meditation - which simply means letting go of everything

the job here is not to focus on anything , but to catch oneself when one starts paying attention to something and then let go of it , but this is only the first step

next one must stop even doing this and get totally lost in whatever activity one is doing , total absorbtion but without focusing

an attitude of total not caring must be developed

eventually the mind will solve itself on it own

don't make any effort to solve this ,

and at no point try to stop the verbalizations and visual distortions , total acceptance means allowing the verbalizations and visual distortions to exist ,

and using imagination means forgetting about this situation and placing the mind somewhere else , like what to do next or what to eat for dinner or just daydream , but its better to let it be than try to force the situation with imagination

in the 4th state one automatically thinks of what to do next , or what to eat as the current situation is already solved , madness is like being stuck and the solution is to move forward ,

once more , - let it be
 
I think I would recommend that you stop using internet/computer.
Take up a sport? Hard sometimes because you need someone to play with. Squash, badminton and fencing are three good sports for mental health because they unite the focus of mind and body, encourage and channel aggression and ambition in a healthy way.
Art/craft is also good. 3D things like pottery or woodcarving add a physical element that is good for mind/body coordination and cooperation.
Best of luck, I hope this might help even a little bit.
 
RhythmSpring said:
I can relate to this a lot, unfortunately. The advice I'll give you and myself is this:

Seek flow states.

Sex.

Snowboarding, skiing, skateboarding, etc.

Music, singing, drumming.

Harmalas induce a good flow state. Iboga does too, with a bit more guidance toward Truth and involvement, rather than a detached, "Whoa this is interesting."

There are thousands more flow states you can get into. I'm sure you can think of some.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by that highlighted in bold? Would that be reading too?
 
ledsmoke said:
Meditation these days depersonalizes more and creates anxiety.
Click to expand...

I went through a similar experience with depersonalization and to this day after I meditate I feel like I have just taken a sub-oev dose of psychedelics. I never used to feel like that before I had my depersonalization episode.

I suffered panic attacks thinking I was gonna lose my mind and still after a year feel somewhat more detatched from reality than I have ever.

I have learnt to deal with it and took the advice from the people on here which was to seek flow states where you don't think at all but are just existing and participating in some objective activity. After 4-5 months it settled down quite a bit until a few weeks ago i started trying n02 which made it flare back up again.. and i am thinking it was the culprit to begin with and not DMT as nmda disssociatives are known to do that sort of thing!
 
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