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Depersonalization, Bhanga Nana, Dark night of the soul

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RAM said:
Like Sartre says, humans are existence before essence, meaning that, unlike objects, we exist before we actually have a purpose (whereas artificial objects are created out of need for them). It is up to us to find our own purpose and we can do that through creating a vision for ourselves. I know that any constructed purpose can feel fake and meaningless, but if you do not believe in illusion, then that itself does not matter.
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Wise words, but meaning could still exist objectively (or even unconsciously subjectively) yet still be hidden from the human minds knowledge of it existing. For instance a leaf could not know it's purpose and think that it's "personal purpose" is to "just be green" because some other leaf called "sarte" told him so... so his whole life he flaunts himself and says "look at me, I am just being the essence of green, and I created it all by myself! arnt I amazing?".................. when in fact he is actually connected 'multi-dimensionaly' to another object called a tree which he serves an energy intake device ALLLLLLLL without... him... being... aware.... of... it... mwahahahaha!
 
Jin said:
sound meditation is definetly a no go , infact any form of meditation , breath , mantra or any other is all a no go situation

also allowing things to be means letting it all be , whether visual distortions happen or not does not matter , neither do verbalizations matter , what matters is - not caring

even in 4th state verbalizations and visual distortions keep coming up , but they exist as background noise and nothing more

and as far as meditation is concerened , meditation with an object is mundane , there is also objectless meditation - which simply means letting go of everything

the job here is not to focus on anything , but to catch oneself when one starts paying attention to something and then let go of it , but this is only the first step

next one must stop even doing this and get totally lost in whatever activity one is doing , total absorbtion but without focusing

an attitude of total not caring must be developed

eventually the mind will solve itself on it own

don't make any effort to solve this ,

and at no point try to stop the verbalizations and visual distortions , total acceptance means allowing the verbalizations and visual distortions to exist ,

and using imagination means forgetting about this situation and placing the mind somewhere else , like what to do next or what to eat for dinner or just daydream , but its better to let it be than try to force the situation with imagination

in the 4th state one automatically thinks of what to do next , or what to eat as the current situation is already solved , madness is like being stuck and the solution is to move forward ,

once more , - let it be
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I like your approach to this. Its the opposite of what ive been told to do elsewhere. Which is focus on everything and dont allow thoughts to come in.

Out of curiousity why would sound meditation be a no go?

This has been working for me and ive been more relaxed
 
sound meditation being a no go , does not mean listening to music and enjoying it is probhited , it means don't concentrate excessively on anything and be averse to other things like thoughts

the mind must be allowed to rest , time and again the mind might enjoy music or enjoy breathing or it might shift to something else , and all this is good , everything should be in the spirit of enjoyment and relaxation ,

what must be avoided is excessive concentration of any kind to avoid thoughts , feelings , etc
 
You've always been helpful jin. You helped me two years ago as well. A lot has changed since then and Ive gotten out fallen back etc. Your post sparked clicked for me. I asked about sound meditation cause you recommended it to me before.
:]

Thank all of you for the helpful post. I've decided to drop my computer habit and the habit of obsessively researching the internet for answers.
 
ledsmoke said:
I just constantly get caught in my thoughts. i avoid the nothing.
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verbal thoughts ??

if so , there are three things to understand

firstly this is not a symptom of no self , this is the symptom of a self , without a self there would be no thoughts (or atleast very few and useful) ,

secondly absorbtion must be understood , to understand this easily - try watching a really good movie and get lost in it , at the peak of absorbtion all thoughts will vanish and all that will remain is the story of the movie , its characters and all that crap -- when this happens and total lostness is achieved , notice there is no self talking crap in the mind , this is the symptom of having no self ,

thirdly understand imagination and its capablities , try thinking visually in pictures and such without much words and notice how the helmet like feeling around the head lessenns or vanishes ,--- also understand this , there is a whole world out there and its all made up of imagination , to understand this try visualising/remembering your own city and its various places of interest , its alleys , clubs , whatever and so on in detail......

once this is understood , this will literally explain why the world is made up of imagination

also remember to use imagination to escape tight situations

edit: using imagination to escape might feel like aversion and it is , yet there are no rules only tools , as long as it eases suffering all is good ,
 
"to get your autopilot to turn off is precisely where these techniques help , also before sleeping to get good sleep keep on breathing deeply until you fall asleep

watching or just observing the chatter is difficult until you have enough grasp of being in the moment

right now it might be best to go on with paying attention to sounds and breathing , also few deep breaths here and there , i seriously hope you don't think meditating is like closing your eyes , sitting still and daydreaming "

-Jin
 
ya:grin:

a lot of things have changed since then

no real answers have been found , only more techniques , that solve nothing 😁

from sound to breath to vippasna to self inquiry to objectless meditation to much more , finally having solved nothing

what else can be done but go on exploring conciousness , in search of answer/answers and some relief

use what helps ,

what else can be done
 
Hehe i'm just looking for basic awareness and to actually be in the moment.

Seems im always caught up in trying instead of being.

As far as the not focusing and let be technique i focus on not focuaing heh.

I understand what you mean by solving nothing cause there is no problem in reality but alas im in the loop.

I did get to a point 2 montha ago where i could watch the chatter without becoming it. Sound meditation helped but i fell back and got to square one of mental identification and fightingb for freedom.
 
How does one "accept" something. For instance to accept my current state of being, how would i do that?

I feel i might be overthinking it and there might not really be a how.
 
You have been separated from your heart.

Know that even though you have been searching for answers and feeling you have not been finding what you need, that you have been learning the entire time...Accept that everything is as it should be. This sounds cliche, but it is actually true...

Yours is a process of self-discovery and unfoldment...The search is growth...Don't give up and you will come out the other end. I know this because it happened to me for a very long time.

There will be life again...and it will fucking incredible.
 
I found myself a year after it all began then got lost back in the mind. This happened 3 more times coming back to myself and falling out in fear. It's been three years now and recently I've given up. I've tried everything there is. I had 120 tabs on firefox open scouring the corners of the internet for answers. It all points to acceptance and surrender. Read everything on the internet, time and time again looking for a solution. What I've learned is all this has taken me further from myself the more I search. The more I look for an escape and the more desperate I Want it the farther away it seems.
I'm at a loss right now, no direction to turn to that hasn't been tried, I'm just sad and empty. Everyone says accept but I don't even know how to go about doing that.. Accept seems to be the answer as it's the only way to change something.

Accept, Let go, Surrender I understand them but don't know how to do them.

I yearn for life. I miss it very much. What I would give to be back alive..

It seems to me the path with no direction is the path to follow.
 
Indeed, you have said it yourself. You got lost back in the mind....and have fallen back in fear. It may be that your searching have just become distractions...''chatter'. I meant more searching your self, but even so, your searching is interconnected with what has caught your interest and propels self=discovery.

Personally, I have come through what has been a very rough road. Definitely felt like giving up, but the profession I devoted myself to (teaching kids) kept a large part of my heart alive. The personal part was gone due to years of sexual abuse when I was young. So I was connected in some sense, but on the personal/relationship w/my Self (higher) I was not. Very long story short, I had a lot of healing on a deep level to do.

Please do not give up. Life is there waiting for you! Turn to the spiritual aspect of your life.. I am not talking about dogmatic beliefs, but what can be said to be /Being/.

I have the seen the comments about Flow...and getting busy...but what I have found led me 'out' was going within and forcing the silence...It is painful, yes. But stay with it. Talk to yourself like you are your best friend. Then you begin to hear the voice within and your consciousness ..THE Consciousness...will respond. You must trust though, that part is the foundation. It is real.

One suggestion is to volunteer somewhere for the holidays, even though you may not feel like it-Trigger that heart feeling and develop compassion for the Other. It will light you up. This will get you out of your 'mind', and into the heart.
 
Thank you very much for replying. I'm happy for you to have made it out the other side.
I just don't even know what sounds fun anymore or what makes me happy. Everything turns to ash in the mind.

The emptiness I think is what i run from. I will try to force the silence though. (you mean just dont let thoughts arise?)
I'll give volunteering a shot.


Any idea on acceptance, Letting go, or surrender?
 
woogyboogy

I can't message you back since i'm not a full member. :oops:


"alot of the doing is just letting go of control over body and feeling!"

letting go of control is a big issue of mine. Don't know how to do it
 
ledsmoke said:
I just don't even know what sounds fun anymore or what makes me happy. Everything turns to ash in the mind.

The emptiness I think is what i run from. I will try to force the silence though. (you mean just dont let thoughts arise?)
I'll give volunteering a shot.


Any idea on acceptance, Letting go, or surrender?
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Well, I can tell you, I felt the exact same way.

Remember that life changes constantly, and even though you don't feel like it now, that you are growing in understanding every moment you are alive. I can look back now and know that all the 'digging' for information that I did to help myself led to where I am now...just don't let that part distract you from tending the inner self. Balance in all things.

Listen to things like this to get you in the moment and relaxed... Tibetan Bowls-just lovely-
Rose Quartz Meditation


While listening to the above, you can get used to 'watching' your thoughts...and seeing that they are indeed just ash in the mind, as you say.

You, yourself, are not your thoughts and feelings...These are only projections of your mind. Watch them come and go like a floating cloud. Do not be tempted to 'feed' a thought by continuing or following it as you are doing this. Listen to the tones of the bowls. Do it for short periods of time, and build up if you like. I have found this a very helpful exercise.



'Don't let your wheels drive you crazy'-Eagles

heh.

Also-Look at getting this book. It was a huge help to me. It does have a section about the 'dark night of the soul'. If you go to Amazon, it'll let you 'Look Inside'...

Spiritual Emergency: When Personal Transformation Becomes a Crisis (New Consciousness Readers) by Stanislav Grof
 
wanderNwonder said:
ledsmoke said:
letting go of control is a big issue of mine. Don't know how to do it
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You only think you have control anyway...Accept the impermanence of life ;)

This piece of amazing-ness will be a start

Shpongle-Around The World In A Tea Daze [Ott Remix]

*Just listening to it now again...It 'gets' me every. fucking. time. :)
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haha I know that, I'll rephrase. My ego is quite resistant on giving up the illusion of control.


Also you said the word accept, I've probably intellectualized accept let go and surrender to the end and I'm not sure anyone can answer it but How does one do those things?

I don't think words can define it?
 
when going through madness personally , antipsychotics seemed to help and provided much relief

going this route helped a lot
 
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