Did we just get officially f#cked over?(In america)

[mckennaforum.com]

Wow! I can't believe the wormhole of a thread I just fell into!
This stuff is much heavier than what we've been chatting about over in the Mckenna Forum.

Ok this is quite frightening. My immediate thoughts are to seriously start to consider looking for an alternative country to live in. It's sad but true. How can one not think of it this way? I mean it's either that or buy a gun. And I know how my girlfriend feels about guns so.... lol

The flames are engulfing us and we can't even rouse ourselves up off the couch to turn down the thermostat - the will of the people is just not there. What happened to this country?

Sad....

And Vovin thanks for that reddit link - a good place to keep one eye on....

 

[Millentree10]

Wow! I can't believe the wormhole of a thread I just fell into!
This stuff is much heavier than what we've been chatting about over in the Mckenna Forum.

Ok this is quite frightening. My immediate thoughts are to seriously start to consider looking for an alternative country to live in. It's sad but true. How can one not think of it this way? I mean it's either that or buy a gun. And I know how my girlfriend feels about guns so.... lol

The flames are engulfing us and we can't even rouse ourselves up off the couch to turn down the thermostat - the will of the people is just not there. What happened to this country?

My thoughts exactly. I already live so close to Canada, that to be completely honest, likely the only thing keeping me here is hospitalized family members.

I think what keeps most people from even realizing the threat of the social injustices is that it has been going on for such a while now, the majority of the population is desensitized to it to the point where they don't even notice there is a problem.

It's all very Orwellian when you think about it.

 

[polytrip]

I think all the weird legislation that´s passed and going to be passed, will proof to be counterproductive.

The american army will never be able to take control over society, like the egyptian army hs done in egypt. There are a few major differences between egypt and american society.

If an american president would realy give the order to arrest and detain tens or hundreds of thousands of civillians, shut down the internet, etc, he/she would be signing his/her own death-sentence. There are too many major party´s of power within the US to let such a thing happen. To pass some highly symbolic bill is one thing but to start a civil war that you can´t win, is something even many republicans, many people within the military, the CIA, NSA, the pentagon, etc wouldn´t aprove of.

So look at it this way: if something happens that would cause outrage among many americans, if many, many americans would take the streets and start massive protests...the president now will officially have two options: to quel the protests or not to quel them. But since military intervention isn´t a serious option anyway...he/she will have to choose to allow the protests to happen.

In other words: the position of the president is actually weakened by these laws, because reality will force any president not to put them into action...so 1-the laws to shut down the net and detain people without any form of trial will fail and 2-with that, the president will be forced to allow people to protest.

This means that in reality, because the president officially can do things to stop people from protesting and won´t actually do these things...protests will no longer just happen without presidential intervention, but it will be a political choice to allow protests to happen.

In other words..because these laws are so ridiculous, the president will be forced not to put them into action and because of that, the president will be forced to accept that there´s such a thing like freedom of speech, freedom to protest, freedom to organise, etc.

Every president from now on, will be forced to actually support freedom of speech and all of these other rights. By not interveining..whether you want it or not...you automatically give a political message.

 

[Doodazzle]

Well Polytrip, I hope your right.



At the moment I am feeling sick and tired of being on the fence. To pack up and split now seems like giving in to fear.

To not take all this too seriously feels complacent. Really, if I still drank and partied this would be easier. This is what most people will do, if they even hear about the new laws or the occupy evictions or whatever. Just indulge yourself in whatever makes you feel good and pretend you do not sense the end coming on.



Before all this news came into play, I already had a plan to go off-grid by next autumn...actually the plan was not entirely solid yet. Now I am just feeling, as I said, on the damned fence. I was probably already on the right track, I shouldn't be swayed so easy. Where's that inner voice?

 

[vovin]

The issue is that the economy is collapsing and the government finally realizes they cant stop it. There's going to be chaos they are just trying to figure out if they can delay it. The laws being passed will be used to keep much of the populace misinformed. In cities this will be impossible in Iowa controlling the TV and killing the web literally will control their reality. Just like in communist countries when the govt controls the media then that means they shape the events and perceptions of your world. Look at the new stations like fox. They have brainwashed millions of morons and there's more than enough stuff out there disproving them. What happens when you don't have access to those verification sources and all the news is like fox.

These people are completely stupid. They are now getting out of office if they can and letting some new sucker be there when it goes to hell. They cant stop the train it's not that they don't want the economy to improve. They can only do what they can to deal with the aftermath. The civil disorder.

 

[polytrip]

They´ve brainwashed people indeed. But there comes a moment that all the magic words have lost their meaning, even for those that have been kept brainwashed thus far.

When a secret bank-acount on the cayman islands shows-up with billions of taxdollars on it, joe the plumber has worked hard for, meant to buy bulletproof vests for his son or daughter when he/she was sent to the front in iraq and/or afghanistan...belonging to a friend of a nephew of dick cheney and leading straight to cheney´s office...do you think all the magic words like 'classified information', 'homeland security' etc. will still work?

Maybe in iowa..but there are probably only three people living in iowa anyway.

But i don´t think those magic words will still be effective then...especially not when maybe joe the plumber´s son or daughter was injured or killed in iraq or afghanistan because those vests turned-out to be 'missing' somewhere.

Once people find-out how many of those secret bank-accounts exist, especially when they have to suffer the consequences of a failing economy themselves...

The big shots will say :'we´ll pay half of it back', then they will say :'OK, OK, we´ll pay all of it back' and then they will question the patriotism of everyone and say that having those bank-acounts was a matter of 'homeland security' that cannot be explained to the public because of 'classified information' and stuff.

But the truth is that even newscorp is a company with it´s own interests. There comes a moment that even FOX can no longer affort not to air the existence of those bank-acounts once they surface.

The economy is failing, the amounts of money that have been stolen from ordinary taxpayers are enormous..people aren´t gonna accept all of that once they find out.
And the military is certainly not gonna arrest and detain ten´s of thousands or hundreds of thousand peacefully protesting civilians.

You just cannot fool all the people all the time.

 

[a1pha]

Did anyone watch the last debate on Fox? Every GOP candidate (except Paul) stated something along the lines of:

"We can not let Iran get a weapon of mass destruction. We will take them out if necessary."


*facepalm*


The Iraq War was one thing, but to be so quick to start another war... With a 2000+ year old culture none-the-less... Over a damn drone?!

God / Allah / Whoever - help us all if we go down that road.

 

[۩]

^They've been "building a case" to the public for a while now.

A couple months back I heard Obama say "Iran will pay."

I don't even remember what the instance was...

 

[polytrip]

Another war in iran would be a disaster for the whole world. I think that´s just tough talk tough.

It´s a serious concern and it´s hanging over us like a dark cloud for quite a while already.

Let´s just hope it won´t go that way, because it could seriously spiral out of control..dragging saudi arabia with it, and israel, etc.

 

[Millentree10]

If they honestly think going to war with Iran, while we are already stuck in Afghanistan, will have ANY sort of positive effect on anyone on this planet..

Wow. Words. I can not find them.


But, the whole world is in for change soon, for better or worse, has yet to be determined. The global economy is in shambles, oppression of freedom gets worse by the day...

When the banks around the world crash, could we hope it means an end to corporate control? Could we retake what is rightfully ours, when the system is rendered weak? I know plenty of US soldiers, and I know they would help the US citizens in the event of any sort of rebellion or uprising, because they believe in it and it is their job. I have a strong feeling the majority of the armed forces shares this point of view as well.

 

[actualfactual]

If they honestly think going to war with Iran, while we are already stuck in Afghanistan, will have ANY sort of positive effect on anyone on this planet..

It will have a positive effect on the military industrial complex. That is the reason we are so quick to go to war with anyone and everyone. There is a shit ton of money in it.

 

[ntwhtyouknw]

I've worried over this for far too long, problem is many people still do not wish to believe its true. Either that or they are too afraid to look into it, or they just don't care. Leave them alone with their TV'S and so called lives and they are content. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to think about it, but at the same time It's burdensome to to feel like its weighing on my shoulders and.most people don't even see it. It just seems all too convenient to pass this off on the people right as folk are finally protesting. It takes incredible bravery to protest as it was, the way these new laws sound it would make one more of a martyr. I keep thinking of what happened when the students of Kent state protested Vietnam, people seem to think things like that won't happen in the US, this could be far worse. I fear for and hope for the best for anyone across the globe who is standing up against injustice.

 

[vovin]

Maybe some military action but I doubt the US will go to war we have a decade long war weariness that will take a few generations to clean up. However I also never thought they would piss all over the constitution so easily either and I was wrong.

Funny thing There's a company called UNICOR that makes a lot of military equipment. This company is owned by members of congress and senate. They are the only ones allowed to own stock. They are also their own customers. Plus passing laws that out people away ensures plenty of workforce.

 

[Saidin]

The economy is failing, the amounts of money that have been stolen from ordinary taxpayers are enormous..people aren´t gonna accept all of that once they find out.
And the military is certainly not gonna arrest and detain ten´s of thousands or hundreds of thousand peacefully protesting civilians.

You just cannot fool all the people all the time.

You are correct, the military will not arrest that number of peaceful protestors. But they will certainly round up and detain them if they become violent or begin to riot.

This is part of the deception that is going on with the media and the 'police brutality' occuring with the OWS protests. It is an attempt to foster such resentment in the populace that the chances of it turning violent increase and then they have justifiable reasoning to declare martial law and bring in the military to detain large groups of people as 'domestic terrorists" and hold them indefinitely.

"Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see."
-Benjamin Franklin

The issue is that the economy is collapsing and the government finally realizes they cant stop it. There's going to be chaos they are just trying to figure out if they can delay it. The laws being passed will be used to keep much of the populace misinformed. In cities this will be impossible in Iowa controlling the TV and killing the web literally will control their reality. Just like in communist countries when the govt controls the media then that means they shape the events and perceptions of your world. Look at the new stations like fox. They have brainwashed millions of morons and there's more than enough stuff out there disproving them. What happens when you don't have access to those verification sources and all the news is like fox.

If you want to see one person's interpretation of how scripted actors through the media controls things and shapes and molds perceptions, watch this series of videos (he ties it all together in part 3). It claims to uncover a whole new layer of the deception. Some info is questionable, but much of it seems spot on:

 

[polytrip]

Maybe some military action but I doubt the US will go to war we have a decade long war weariness that will take a few generations to clean up. However I also never thought they would piss all over the constitution so easily either and I was wrong.

I think you´re right. Besides..there is no telling where another war would lead. Iran is a lot bigger than iraq and lybia. A big large-scale war like in iraq could very well spin out of hand, with saudi-arabia sitting nearby, etc. America could very well win it, with great economic losses that would definately cost any president his/her re-election. But it could also turn out to be a huge military disaster, with the same economical losses or worse.

Talking tough on iran will get you votes, actually going to war will cost you votes.

Maybe they´ll conduct some airstrikes instead of a full invasion..who knows. But for now it´s just tough talk to ensure (re-)election.

And the constitution..well, they´re politicians. They don´t care much about things like constitutions.

 

[Saidin]

I think you´re right. Besides..there is no telling where another war would lead. Iran is a lot bigger than iraq and lybia. A big large-scale war like in iraq could very well spin out of hand, with saudi-arabia sitting nearby, etc. America could very well win it, with great economic losses that would definately cost any president his/her re-election. But it could also turn out to be a huge military disaster, with the same economical losses or worse.

Talking tough on iran will get you votes, actually going to war will cost you votes.

Maybe they´ll conduct some airstrikes instead of a full invasion..who knows. But for now it´s just tough talk to ensure (re-)election.

And the constitution..well, they´re politicians. They don´t care much about things like constitutions.

Syria will happen before Iran. There is already evidence that the US and NATO are staging troops on the border...

As to your comment on the Constitution. Every politician takes an oath to uphold the Constitution, so it is the guiding principal upon which they are to govern. I agree that it is and has been ignored for some time, but that is only because we as the 'governed' are not holing them to that oath.

 

[Shoshi]

They've had plans to disrupt the middle east/north africa for some time now.

 

[Millentree10]

You are correct, the military will not arrest that number of peaceful protestors. But they will certainly round up and detain them if they become violent or begin to riot.

This is part of the deception that is going on with the media and the 'police brutality' occuring with the OWS protests. It is an attempt to foster such resentment in the populace that the chances of it turning violent increase and then they have justifiable reasoning to declare martial law and bring in the military to detain large groups of people as 'domestic terrorists" and hold them indefinitely.

"Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see."
-Benjamin Franklin

You have a point... But, I happen to know quite a few men and women in U.S. armed services, and I can almost certainly vouch for them that in any sort of a rebellion they would support the people. I think that this is the majority opinion among them, especially those that have been to Iraq or Afghanistan.

It is the purpose of the US army to protect the citizens and their freedom. Many would see that.

It is, as you say "police brutality". Army != Police. The police generally do not care about personal freedoms, rights, and are the ones that quell protesters, and have riot squads to do so. It happens all the time; think about it:

Some people are standing in the street, protesting the latest injustice to freedom. A few hooded individuals enter the crowd, and raise a bit of a ruckus, where there otherwise wasn't one. This give police jurisdiction to start freely tossing teargas, randomly arresting people, etc.

Well wait, who are these individuals? Certainly American freedom-protectors, the police, wouldn't stoop so low as to cause the mess in the first place in order for them to do the dirty work... right?

Wrong. Not always, but I definitely wouldn't put it past them.

Anyway, the police are corrupt, for the most part, and especially would be, in that situation.

Have a little faith, just because the military technically works under the government, doesn't mean they fall for all the lies
________________________________

As far as Syria, Iran, etc., this would not be smart at all..

We'd basically be saying "Hey, yeah, Middle-East? We're coming for you, so gear up bitches."

Not a good idea..

 

[PrimateSphinx]

If you want to see one person's interpretation of how scripted actors through the media controls things and shapes and molds perceptions, watch this series of videos (he ties it all together in part 3). It claims to uncover a whole new layer of the deception. Some info is questionable, but much of it seems spot on:

that's pretty scary Saidin. You are right that some of that info is questionable but it really lets you know how unfounded and ridiculous all of our "news" we get is. I don't know what to believe anymore, that blew me away. It makes me think that anything you see from any source whether it be news or independent media is all bogus and that I shouldn't believe anything I see on television, not that i didn't believe that before but that really hit home.

 

[vovin]

If or when SOPA goes into effect places like the nexus will also be gone fast. It gives them unlimited power to take down anything. They'll be workarounds I am sure but use will be risky.