DMT/Ayahuasca and the heart

[nexalizer]

Good evening good people of the Nexus,

Recently I received some bad news about my heart. I need to be careful with heavy exertion (or in a nutshell, blood pressure) from now on until, they tell me, my aortic valve needs to be replaced.. which at my age apparently means a mechanical valve and coumadin/warfarin for life.. not good.


Naturally this new information has made me more cautious in exercise as in the exploration of the mind. After asking the docs whether the occasional vasopressor (LSD) would be problematic and getting a green light, today I decided to put it to the test and had a low-medium dose and an amazing experience & accompanying amazing day.


Higher doses may be too vasoconstricting, I'm not sure.



I'm fairly sure the psychedelics themselves have little to no physical effects. If the increase in BP is the same as moderate exercise, then the occasional experience really isn't problematic.


I offer all this information so that you can properly contextualize this question:

Is it known whether DMT and/or Ayahuasca, by itself, dramatically raises HR/BP ?


I have little experience with ayahuasca and zero with the spice, but from the innumerable experiences posted, the sheer mindfuck of it should be enough to raise HR/BP too much (for someone with a problem in a heart valve).. in your experience, does this happen ?

And would you agree oral dmt+b. caapi would be way way smoother while still potentially very rewarding ?


The way I understand it now, it's not the substances themselves (psychedelics) that could give me trouble, but any freak-out during a trip, which is always a possibility and cannot be predicted.


If there's anyone else out there with asymptomatic severe aortic regurgitation, do let me know about your experiences with the molecules..

 

[Purges]

I know that smoked DMT can cause a spike in blood pressure, so that is probably best avoided. Aya would probably be a better option, but I would wait for some one in the know (Corpus Callosum?) to come along.

Sorry to hear about your condition buddy, but glad you can still enjoy the odd LSD foray.

P x

 

[Macre]

It's an interesting point you have raised. There is a real need for more research in this area. Psychologically Aya seems to be pretty safe, but as far as health conditions go (such as the heart) there needs to be more studying done.

I believe that in young, healthy people the effect on the heart is fairly modest; but in older people or people with existing heart conditions, I am not sure if it is (as yet) completely clear.

Peace

Macre

 

[Ryusaki]

I recently asked an Curandero Apprentice how to threat my mother who has high blood pressure. She said as long as my mother takes Beta Blockers and as long as she has high pressure she cannot drink Ayahuasca.

In conclusion i would suggest to be very cautionous, and i would suggest to do it with an professional shaman who can help you with an more universal theraphy.
I've read about a guy who had an heart disease and was healed with ayahuasca, so it seems possible, but its best to ask an expert.
And i would suggest you do this fast and before considering the operation. I don't know anything about you and your age and medical condition, but im my opinion, western doctors are way to quick to pull out their scalpels and cut you open. I wouldn't want that.

 

[joedirt]

Is it known whether DMT and/or Ayahuasca, by itself, dramatically raises HR/BP ?

Absolutely they can.

5HT receptors subtypes (which DMT, and other tryptamines bind to) are directly involved in regulation of blood pressure, heart rate, body temperature, and sleep regulation.

Also the subjective effects a person is experiencing can greatly add to or reduce these substance based effects.

You will probably be fine with small-medium doses, but the larger doses may not be for you any more. Life is certainly more important IMHO.

BTW I'm sorry to hear of your diagnosis.

 

[nexalizer]

but I would wait for some one in the know (Corpus Callosum?) to come along.

How do you reckon he may be able to help ? Also has a heart condition ?

I've read about a guy who had an heart disease and was healed with ayahuasca, so it seems possible, but its best to ask an expert.

I've read many stories about such healings. It goes against everything that seems reasonable (spirits from another dimensions healing physical consditions and all) to me.. but I keep an open mind.

Perhaps some of the members who've been to the Amazon and/or have extensive experience with Aya would like to comment ?

And i would suggest you do this fast and before considering the operation. I don't know anything about you and your age and medical condition, but im my opinion, western doctors are way to quick to pull out their scalpels and cut you open. I wouldn't want that.

I'm very young, just 27. Essentially it was a fantastic stroke of bad luck. I eat right, exercise 5 days a week, don't smoke tobacco anymore for years.. the problem is either congenital or it was an infection that deformed the valve when I was very young.

I agree with you that they're very quick to want to operate. I've reviewed a lot of literature on the subject though and past a certain point it is better to have surgery.

Already working on getting 2nd and 3rd opinions though.

And indeed, if at all possible I'd like to avoid the irreversible option of having a biological part taken off, not to mention major surgery and general anesthesia, etc.

Also the subjective effects a person is experiencing can greatly add to or reduce these substance based effects.

Indeed this is my main concern.

You will probably be fine with small-medium doses, but the larger doses may not be for you any more. Life is certainly more important IMHO.

Alas, I must agree. What a pity.. perhaps I'll get to know hyperspace after surgery, if indeed there's no other way to reverse the condition:x


And finally, thank you all for the kind supportive words

 

[corpus callosum]

Sorry to hear of your cardiac woes, nexalizer.

May I ask how you came to be diagnosed particularly as you had no symptoms?

DMT can increase heart rate and BP and this can be compounded by the ones psychological state ie a freakout raising both further.

In the absence of other ailments the most likely cause is an episode of rheumatic fever as a child or being born with a bicuspid aortic valve.

Aortic regurgitation tends to cause symptoms of any significance as a late feature when left ventricular failure occurs causing varying degrees of breathlessness.Pounding of the heart is also common but actual arrythmias are relatively uncommon; if theres any underlying coronary artery disease then angina is pretty common.

There is no cure for aortic regurgitation other than surgery, and because the heart muscle doesnt recover fully even after the op, the procedure may be performed in asymptomatic patients.

Its important to know what state the other valves are in, the size of the left ventricle and a measure of the left ventricles function (the ejection fraction) as all these have a bearing on deciding when to operate.

Have they put you on any meds, like ACE inhibitors?

 

[Vodsel]

@nexalizer, sorry to read that, mate. I hope you can get a proper treatment and that it doesn't alter your life much. Good vibes your way.

@corpus callosum: would in cases like this make sense to ingest preventively low doses of beta-blockers, i.e. propanolol, before spice?

 

[nexalizer]

Sorry to hear of your cardiac woes, nexalizer.

May I ask how you came to be diagnosed particularly as you had no symptoms?

I wanted to begin pushing even more in exercise to foster my conditioning and thought it would be wise to pay a visit to the cardiologist.

In the absence of other ailments the most likely cause is an episode of rheumatic fever as a child or being born with a bicuspid aortic valve.

Indeed. Doc A told me it's congenital, doc B told me it was probably from rheumatic fever when I was younger. The valve is indeed bicuspid, which apparently tends to cause all sorts of problems over time.

Aortic regurgitation tends to cause symptoms of any significance as a late feature when left ventricular failure occurs causing varying degrees of breathlessness.Pounding of the heart is also common but actual arrythmias are relatively uncommon; if theres any underlying coronary artery disease then angina is pretty common.

There is no cure for aortic regurgitation other than surgery, and because the heart muscle doesnt recover fully even after the op, the procedure may be performed in asymptomatic patients.

This is what I've been told as well.

Its important to know what state the other valves are in, the size of the left ventricle and a measure of the left ventricles function (the ejection fraction) as all these have a bearing on deciding when to operate.

Other valves are fine, LV is slightly enlarged but that could very well be because I've been exercising with some breaks in between for the past 5 or so years (probably why I'm asymptomatic as well).. the report says global function is still conserved. The aorta is slightly dilated as well.

The doc wanted a CT to get yet another look (had a normal ecg and a transesophagal ecg already) but after reading about the procedure I decided against it (concerns about too much radiation in a short timespan and possible adverse reactions to the dye). At least for now, as I have more appointments with other docs coming up in the next 2 weeks.

Have they put you on any meds, like ACE inhibitors?

Nothing, it wasn't even suggested at this point. But he did say that surgery may happen sooner rather than later..


Do you know if there are alternatives to warfarin ? Even going without anticoagulant medicine. I understand this would put me at higher risk for strokes, but the long-term effects of coumadin-like drugs seem to be just as bad. As I understand it, it interferes with vitamin K(1,2), thus creating problems with bleeding (internal or otherwise), which is very publicized. What I haven't read much about coumadin+vit k2 is the effects of vitamin k2 deficiency caused by this drug. If I understand it right, over the long term this will mean bone problems, calcium deposits in soft tissues etc, as vit k2 is responsible for directing calcium to bones.

@Nexalizer, sorry to read that, mate. I hope you can get a proper treatment and that it doesn't alter your life much. Good vibes your way.

Cheers Vod, I hope so as well..

 

[corpus callosum]

Do you know if there are alternatives to warfarin ? Even going without anticoagulant medicine. I understand this would put me at higher risk for strokes, but the long-term effects of coumadin-like drugs seem to be just as bad. As I understand it, it interferes with vitamin K(1,2), thus creating problems with bleeding (internal or otherwise), which is very publicized. What I haven't read much about coumadin+vit k2 is the effects of vitamin k2 deficiency caused by this drug. If I understand it right, over the long term this will mean bone problems, calcium deposits in soft tissues etc, as vit k2 is responsible for directing calcium to bones.
.

I would very strongly advise against being on no anticoagulant if you have a metal valve.The risk of stroke is real, as are the risks of emboli blocking off other arteries (ie femoral artery resulting in possibly amputation; anterior spinal artery embolus causing a spastic paraplegia with wheelchair, catheter etc).

Warfarin does have the potential to cause osteoporosis but this seems more commpon/sefeve in immobilised patients, as immobility is also a risk factor for osteoporosis.

An alternative is Sinthrome and Phenindione which act in a very similar way to warfarin but I dont think these have the bone risks to the same degree as warfarin.

More recently a direct thrombin inhibitor called dabigatran but its not been established tey whther or not itseffective enough with a metal valve prosthesis.

Whilst not ideal, warfarin and sinthrome have a proven track-recoed for efficacy under these circumstances.

 

[nexalizer]

And what about possible interactions between Warfarin and Ayahuasca (specifically, the alkaloids in B. Caapi)?

I utfse but could not find anything conclusive.